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RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#23651: Sep 1st 2025 at 3:11:49 PM

In the weird route, in her last phone call to Kris, she does tell them that Noelle wants to go to the festival with them, so I'm guessing Carol has no idea about the events of the Weird Route.

It might even potentially derail her plans.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#23652: Sep 1st 2025 at 4:01:48 PM

It is worth nothing that it comes with the assumption that Noelle would be going with Kris (a trusted family friend who already knew her) instead of Susie (who gives off Wrong Side of the Tracks vibes even on her best days). It might be closer in tone to aristocratic Arranged Marriages, where one parent is playing matchmaker just to make sure their kids don't marry a "commoner".

EDIT: with her claim that Noelle wanted to go than it either implies that Carol is actually making the arrangement on her behalf (in line with the above) or that the poor deerlet had became enthralled to the SOUL though the Thorn Ring again, either way, her agency in that specific scene is suspect.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Sep 1st 2025 at 4:04:55 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#23653: Sep 1st 2025 at 4:04:50 PM

Also at least Carol isn't homophobic, she's just classist.

Wait.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#23654: Sep 1st 2025 at 4:06:21 PM

[up]those two go hand and hand more often than you think. Kris, while being enby, seems masculine enough that Carol would be okay with the pairing, especially with the context of their history as neighbors.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#23655: Sep 1st 2025 at 4:10:05 PM

What? Am I the only one who thinks Kris leans towards feminine?

Just me? They rock the dresses in fanart.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Marchen Too hot (Hot damn) from Somewhere Out in Space (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
Too hot (Hot damn)
#23656: Sep 1st 2025 at 4:22:28 PM

[up] Their standard fit is made out of Sweaters and Pants. Pretty neutral, but I'd call it masculine if I had to choose. Their Dark World outfit is also kinda masculine, though I could see it as including leggings and a sleeveless shirt, which I guess is more femme?

I think that since I Kris is nonbinary, I'm kinda reading their design as not leaning towards anything at all, so maybe I'm biased. That said, yeah, they'd probably look good in a dress.

I guess the argument for [up][up] is less that Kris is masculine, and more that they're not feminine? That said, I suspect Carol might not be a homophobe. Like, King was, like, way worse to Lancer, and he explicitly cares for the little guy in spite of being a massive jerk.

Plus, if we assume that Queen is representative of everyone's mom, which I realise is a weird thing to suddenly say without warning, then Carol can be assumed to have intentions for Noelle that Noelle doesn't want, but probably is well intentioned in them, I think.

Read Otr of the Flame (She/Her)
ObligatorySarcasm Since: Aug, 2016
#23657: Sep 2nd 2025 at 8:48:07 AM

One bit of evidence is that she seemed to be badly affected by Dess's disappearance.

An uncaring parent would have moved on quite easily.

True, unless she cares but not in a loving way, and instead she wants Dess back to use her for something malicious, more of seeing Dess as an object to continue Carol's plan.

Based off Carol's initial build up where she looks like a stoic cold feeling bitch, one common twist would be the reveal that it's all a front and she has an tragic emotional breakdown showing she does care. Or it's not a front and she is legitimately a cold standoff person.

-Witty line-
wingedcatgirl mys. minty from the silly dimension from lurking (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
mys. minty from the silly dimension
#23658: Sep 2nd 2025 at 9:50:42 AM

Kris's gender presentation does seem to tend towards neutral in a way that gets read as masc, because neutrality tends to get read as male "by default".

But they can wear more ribbons than Ralsei. if you include the legend of tenna which arguably isn't them at all but technically-different-character HERO_SWORD :v

Suddenly I'm... still rotating Fallen London in my mind even though I've stopped actively playing it.
ObligatorySarcasm Since: Aug, 2016
#23659: Sep 2nd 2025 at 10:52:47 AM

Kris is not a man or woman, but rather a horse, then a broom.

OK, I just had a question thought: how did Gerson come back in the third sanctuary? His remains were in the office that were under the field from the lobby fountain as once that was closed, you can access the normal office and choir room in the Light World. But the main fountain was in the inner church room, so he shouldn't be able to form in that Dark World as he is outside it.

Edited by ObligatorySarcasm on Sep 3rd 2025 at 3:34:49 PM

-Witty line-
MightyKombat I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a from in mai mouffff (Ten years in the joint)
wingedcatgirl mys. minty from the silly dimension from lurking (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
mys. minty from the silly dimension
#23661: Sep 14th 2025 at 1:47:38 PM

[up][up] My theory is that since the First and Third sanctuaries were (probably) opened by the same person, the Third leaked back into the lobby after Susie and Kris opened the door, recreating the First and re-reviving Gerson.

You can get back into Gerson's original study from the Third, but not the Second, so it's definitely more connected in some way that's probably never going to get spelled out explicitly because Toby doesn't think that level of detail is relevant.

Edited by wingedcatgirl on Sep 14th 2025 at 4:47:59 AM

Suddenly I'm... still rotating Fallen London in my mind even though I've stopped actively playing it.
GoosefromWikipedia (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
#23662: Sep 14th 2025 at 9:03:08 PM

Anniversary newsletter came out.

TL;DR:

  • Toby and Fangamer are livestreaming the entirety of Undertale on September 20-21.
  • Toby has thoughts on Chapters 3 & 4, but he's presumably saving them for next weekend's livestream.
  • Development on Chapter 5 is going smoothly (and there's even work on Chapter 6 being done), but it still needs quite a bit of work. Toby is hoping to start localizing Chapter 5 by the end of the year, but he doubts it'll come out earlier than June or July.
  • Toby showed off a bit of Castle Town, with a scene featuring the Mike trio. You need to see it for yourself.

Edited by GoosefromWikipedia on Sep 14th 2025 at 9:07:08 AM

ObligatorySarcasm Since: Aug, 2016
#23663: Sep 15th 2025 at 11:55:44 AM

[up][up]Hmmm....very true.Mayne opening the door just caused it to spread back in the lobby as outside areas do show the Dark fog pouring out of a doorway. Maybe the outdoors are not defined enough of a volume for the dark world to form there and instead they can only be formed on definite dimensions like rooms and just dissipate outside.

It would also imply that the new fountains are getting stronger with each chapter. Castletown is confined to the storeroom, Card kingdom to the classroom, Cyberworld the lab. When an outside door is open, a shadow stretches out from the door. But TV World and Sanctuaries were fuming out black fog at their doorway, and Sanctuary managed to spread out passed closed doors. That implies that creating later fountains in a single room could actually convert the entire building to a dark world instead, their power getting too out of control.

Edited by ObligatorySarcasm on Sep 15th 2025 at 2:57:34 PM

-Witty line-
Marchen Too hot (Hot damn) from Somewhere Out in Space (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
Too hot (Hot damn)
#23664: Sep 15th 2025 at 12:53:12 PM

Why were there two dark fountains in the church to begin with? Like, there had to be one in the entry, and one deeper inside, right? Presumably it was either the Knight or Kris who opened them, so... I dunno, it's weird that Susie makes a weird dark world, but the Knight and Kris seemingly make "normal" dark worlds. Maybe the dark worlds were made at the same time-ish, so they were linked? Kinda like how hometown's door linked into the card kingdom?

Read Otr of the Flame (She/Her)
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#23665: Sep 15th 2025 at 12:56:00 PM

I assume the second one was a feint to buy time.

carduinal-cyn Quasi-official Pretty Cure Entry Pimp from Toboe Shrine (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Quasi-official Pretty Cure Entry Pimp
#23666: Sep 15th 2025 at 1:00:08 PM

[up][up] You can access most of the first Dark Sanctuary even after opening the Third Sanctuary, so maybe part of the Third Sanctuary's fountain just "spilled over" into the vestibule and counted as a fountain in its own right.

That, or the Knight used multiple swords at once, like when they make the Titan. This could be because a church is a much bigger location than a school closet or the library's computer lab, so they'd need to use multiple sources to convert the entire church into a Dark World.

Edited by carduinal-cyn on Sep 15th 2025 at 4:00:19 AM

"I would never consider YOU a waste of personnel." — Kawarino
NesClassic Meh-meh!? from Flyover Country Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: In another castle
Meh-meh!?
#23667: Sep 15th 2025 at 1:10:38 PM

Great Doors seem to represent real-world doors that separate rooms, regardless of whether both sides are a Dark World (Hometown/Card Kingdom, Dark Sanctuary/Third Sanctuary) or if it's an exit (Hometown/the unused classroom after it was sealed, TV World/outside Kris' house).

I don't think the link is necessarily because they were made close together, but the two Sanctuaries being similar would imply they're made by the same person... or at least two people that have similar mindsets and past experiences.

Edited by NesClassic on Sep 15th 2025 at 4:10:49 AM

🏳️‍⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse Alberia
Marchen Too hot (Hot damn) from Somewhere Out in Space (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
Too hot (Hot damn)
#23668: Sep 15th 2025 at 1:17:00 PM

[up][up] Isn't the cactus in the house on the second floor? It appears in chapter 3, and it gives you the cactus needle sword, right? You'd think that's too far away, based on that room thing? And we know that one came from just one knife-stab, but it must have stretched out from the tv-nook into the rest of the house. It's difficult to tell from the art style, but surely snazzy two-story houses and churches can't be that different?

Uh, what I'm saying is, I'm not sure it makes sense to me for two fountains to cover the church, but only one is needed for... uh... Toriel's House?

Edited by Marchen on Sep 15th 2025 at 10:17:09 AM

Read Otr of the Flame (She/Her)
wingedcatgirl mys. minty from the silly dimension from lurking (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
mys. minty from the silly dimension
#23669: Sep 15th 2025 at 1:51:04 PM

I don't think the TV World covered the whole house. The first floor at most, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't reach the kitchen.

There's not any actual evidence one way or the other, though. You kinda just have to decide on your own, cause I don't see Toby clearing that up in future chapters. [down] Oh, right, the cactus. Then it definitely reached the second floor hall.

Edited by wingedcatgirl on Sep 15th 2025 at 9:20:22 AM

Suddenly I'm... still rotating Fallen London in my mind even though I've stopped actively playing it.
ObligatorySarcasm Since: Aug, 2016
#23670: Sep 15th 2025 at 2:10:20 PM

I think rooms separated by a door can be isolated from being a part of the Dark world in a building. Since the cactus is prevalent in the TV World, we can assume that the fountain spread over the first floor except the bathroom and up to the second floor hallway except the bedrooms as its one continuous area (no doors leading up to the second floor). In the TV world, there may have been Grand Doors that would have lead to the bedrooms.

But perhaps with all the fountains popping up so soon, each new fountain is ending up stronger than the last, which is how the main church room fountain was now seeping into the lobby area despite the locked door separating the two.

And the irony that the main fountain with Castletown is in the smallest location.

As to my Gerson question how he came back against the Titan, I came to an idea that perhaps the Knight making the internal fountain and summoning a Titan strengthened that main room dark world to now recover the lobby and offices that Kris sealed.

-Witty line-
MightyKombat I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a from in mai mouffff (Ten years in the joint)
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a
#23671: Sep 15th 2025 at 3:36:36 PM

@Goosefrom Wikipedia: Yeah I figured it'd still be a while before Chapter 5 came out even when 2026 hits. Also I saw that Mike scene, good stuff.

Are explosions science?
Shoanew The Enby the media warned you about from TV World (Plucky Ensign) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
The Enby the media warned you about
#23672: Sep 20th 2025 at 6:11:28 PM

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/img_0273_4.jpeg So I think we should make a funny moments thing for the tenth anniversary stream because WHAT THE FUCK?????? LMAO??????

So how do you think the story ends? No, how do you want it to end?
MightyKombat I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a from in mai mouffff (Ten years in the joint)
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a
#23673: Sep 20th 2025 at 6:12:20 PM

Also WHO SAW THE BABBU NOELLE CAMEO?

Are explosions science?
Shoanew The Enby the media warned you about from TV World (Plucky Ensign) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
MightyKombat I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a from in mai mouffff (Ten years in the joint)
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a
#23675: Sep 20th 2025 at 6:24:24 PM

The best part is them not acknowledging her at all.

They know EXACTLY what they're doing.

Are explosions science?

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