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Ego-Man25 Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#23351: Aug 1st 2025 at 9:05:20 AM

No joke, I would be 100% on board with that plot turn.

Page-Topper Context: The prospect of Jockington as Deltarune's twist villain.

Edited by Ego-Man25 on Aug 1st 2025 at 12:05:57 PM

Self-professed Wild Card who thinks cynicism isn't so bad.
Neonocto Fire Chara! from Eight's apartment. (Troper in training) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Fire Chara!
#23352: Aug 1st 2025 at 9:07:11 AM

[up][up]completely on board with that plot twist.

Arson!
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#23353: Aug 1st 2025 at 9:16:59 AM

All hail the magic conch!

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
God_of_Awesome Since: Jan, 2001
#23354: Aug 1st 2025 at 11:14:05 AM

If it helps, I think it's an extremely silly notion.

SilentPartner Since: Oct, 2017
#23355: Aug 1st 2025 at 11:36:37 AM

I mean, he IS shown growing a Beard in the Prophecy…

X3 I actually don’t think Jockington will amount to much and a lot of this is just people grasping at straws to figure out why he of all people is one of the classmates with a dialogue portrait. But it is funny to think about.

Blackress Since: Dec, 2019
#23356: Aug 1st 2025 at 11:38:35 AM

Jockington is 100% the herald of doomsday, whether he's on it or not. Toby Fox apparently confirmed that dude's the most popular citizen on Hometown and you better believe that will be important somehow.

ObligatorySarcasm Since: Aug, 2016
#23357: Aug 1st 2025 at 12:31:52 PM

And there is another part of the prophecy about serpents, pointed tails and hell....

-Witty line-
Marchen Too hot (Hot damn) from Somewhere Out in Space (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
Too hot (Hot damn)
#23358: Aug 1st 2025 at 1:19:20 PM

My understanding is that the pointed tell might be

  • Friend
    • Who, if this is the case, would also be the cat hatched from Noelle's egg
  • Whatever happened to Dess

Or something, the details elude me.

Read Otr of the Flame (She/Her)
SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#23359: Aug 1st 2025 at 5:09:58 PM

[up][up][up] NGL, I like the idea of him being an unwitting agent for the villains better, albeit one who is breaking down.

AwkbutTVT Nyan-Binary (The picture, not me) from Gaia, in no current need of help Since: Sep, 2023
Nyan-Binary (The picture, not me)
#23360: Aug 1st 2025 at 5:14:16 PM

crazy having all that fame at that age

Ey, migi vuru?
Archsage Professional Simp from My House Since: Apr, 2022 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Professional Simp
#23361: Aug 1st 2025 at 7:55:16 PM

[up][up][up] What if Jockington's "beard" is just a part of Friend breaking out of his body. Jockington egg theory.

Best advice I ever got? Keep repeating the joke till everyone is forced to laugh.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#23363: Aug 1st 2025 at 7:59:36 PM

@Blackress

Wait, Jockington is the anti-christ of Deltarune? Even the Snake theme is something associated with Satan.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Aug 1st 2025 at 11:00:02 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Archsage Professional Simp from My House Since: Apr, 2022 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Professional Simp
#23364: Aug 1st 2025 at 8:23:21 PM

[up][up] Jockington will transition into W. D. Gaster... it's all coming full circle

Best advice I ever got? Keep repeating the joke till everyone is forced to laugh.
Blackress Since: Dec, 2019
#23365: Aug 1st 2025 at 8:29:28 PM

[up][up] Nah he's more like a... Herald of the apocalypse? The secret lore about his mural heavily hints his beard will be a darkness construct of sorts, so as soon he gets it that's the signal that Nothing Is the Same Anymore.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#23366: Aug 1st 2025 at 8:31:16 PM

There is a lot of Christian symbolism here, particularly the angel bit.

Hmmmmm.....

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
MisterTambourineMan Unbeugsame Klinge from Under a tree Since: Jun, 2017 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
Unbeugsame Klinge
#23367: Aug 1st 2025 at 8:42:50 PM

Talk about the heroes "banishing the angel's heaven" makes me think the symbols of good in Christianity are evil in this story.

So, if Jockington turns into a demon, maybe that's actually a good thing?

Nach jeder Ebbe kommt die Flut.
Archsage Professional Simp from My House Since: Apr, 2022 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Professional Simp
#23368: Aug 1st 2025 at 8:45:40 PM

It's pretty interesting that Alvin mentions that there's no concept of sin in the Deltarune religion. Sin exists in nearly all real world faiths but its especially prevalent in Christianity.

Best advice I ever got? Keep repeating the joke till everyone is forced to laugh.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#23369: Aug 1st 2025 at 8:47:50 PM

[up][up]That is plausible but indulge me for a bit, consider how the OST for the Titan is "Guardian"

And that Toby Fox insisted that there be no official merch of the Lightner cast barring those from Undertale. The only person who follows that rule is Chara because of that they represent.

Are we the baddies? Is this leading to an Oersted style tale where our own characters go rogue?

Kris already isn't fond of us no matter what we do, and there's some ominous warnings for the later chapters that we might have to part ways permanently. Adding to this, is the implication that the angel is US.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Aug 1st 2025 at 11:50:54 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Archsage Professional Simp from My House Since: Apr, 2022 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Professional Simp
#23370: Aug 1st 2025 at 8:53:21 PM

Honestly with how quickly Toby is moving things along I wouldn't even be surprised if we lost control of Kris in Chapter 5 permanently and had to possess a different character entirely. Or the vessel.

Best advice I ever got? Keep repeating the joke till everyone is forced to laugh.
NesClassic Meh-meh!? from Flyover Country Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: In another castle
Meh-meh!?
#23371: Aug 1st 2025 at 9:01:00 PM

The merch thing is news to me. It doesn't seem quite true in a technical way, since the Dark World forms of Kris/Susie/Noelle/Berdley all appear on various shirts, pins, and prints; but none of them have items specifically about them the way, say, Ralsei and Lancer do.*

...though, interestingly, Kris's Light World shirt is for sale... but it's just called "Important Person's Shirt", the URL simply calls it a green-yellow striped shirt, and the description simply reads

The pattern of a shirt worn by a beloved someone.

Your love will become theirs.

Their love will become yours.

Without any mention of Deltarune like the other items.

🏳️‍⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse Alberia
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#23372: Aug 1st 2025 at 9:25:40 PM

Here's what Toby had to say on the subject:

“Recently, Fangamer brought something to my attention: It seems there’s some disappointment that certain characters of DELTARUNE, particularly those from the Light World, aren’t getting very much merchandise.

This is an intentional decision.

I wish I could explain more now, but when I consider everything, I don’t think certain official merch (plushes, etc) of certain characters feels right for this game. Since Chapter 1, I told Fangamer that some characters would be more or less off limits after a certain point, and this feeling has only gotten stronger over time. These characters include Kris, Susie, and Noelle.

Other times, particularly with Dark World characters like Spamton, I consider the game setting and think “the game is improved by selling this.”

I understand if some feel disappointed or confused by this decision. I want to make it clear I really respect the passion of the fans, who love the characters like I do. I feel very blessed that the player of the game thinks things like “Kris! I wish I had a plush of Kris so I could open it up and see what’s inside!”

I WANT everyone to be able to have the merch they want, to play with the characters the way they want. So you can still feel free to create goods, commission handmade plushes, etc. following the fan merchandise guideline I created for UNDERTALE. I’m happy if fans go ahead and create what they want to have for themselves.

Thanks!”

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
AFan Since: Nov, 2022
#23373: Aug 1st 2025 at 9:59:11 PM

I'm still not sure why Toby is making this decision to not make merch based on the main characters from the Light World like Ralsei does. It feels arbitrary. My best guess is that because Kris, Susie, and Noelle are from the Light World, they're "real" people unlike Ralsei or Spamton, so it'd be weird to make merch on the actual people of that universe.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#23374: Aug 1st 2025 at 10:02:22 PM

Well my guess is that eventually, Kris, Susie, and Noelle will eventually go rogue at some point, and that's why Toby won't sell merch of them.

The fact that Chara is one of the only Undertale main cast that isn't given a toy points me in this direction.

It feels quite Oersted.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Marchen Too hot (Hot damn) from Somewhere Out in Space (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
Too hot (Hot damn)
#23375: Aug 2nd 2025 at 2:30:20 AM

I mean, personally speaking I don't think we're going to be the bad guy, so to speak. Outside of the weird route, of course. That one's very much about us being the bad guy. We're a lot like Kris, I think, in that we don't have a lot of choice in what we're doing.

Heck, whatever choice we had was explicitly taken from us when someone rudely interrupted Gaster and put us in Kris, a decision that Kris themselves seem to barely tolerate because of that promise of theirs.

Read Otr of the Flame (She/Her)

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