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Undertale/Deltarune

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Pokesamus Since: Aug, 2016
#19451: Mar 25th 2022 at 4:09:52 PM

Yeah I’m pretty sure that the Mercs Mettaton hire do just flat out want to kill you as well. It’s not that monsters that want to actively hurt and/or kill Frisk don’t exist, they’re just very uncommon.

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#19452: Mar 25th 2022 at 4:43:54 PM

Also, I think Mettaton is trying to kill you?

The whole "Monsters communicate via firing bullets at each other" thing is really stuck in my brain now. Do we ever see any monsters do that to each other in the game? Do they ever talk about it?

Edited by GNinja on Mar 25th 2022 at 11:49:45 AM

Kaze ni Nare!
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#19453: Mar 25th 2022 at 6:23:02 PM

You know, we don't actually see monsters ever throw bullets at each other in any way; given all monsters fight the same way, including the ones explicitly trying to kill you, I'm not sure how it's anything except a concentrated attempt on your life by most monsters.

I will say I think Deltarune has a bit more of a nuanced take on it, since it doesn't call you an irredeemable monster just for fighting people who want to kill you; you have to go way out of your way to get the came calling you a psychopath, whereas Undertale basically beat you over the head with the idea that if you've ever grinded for levels in an rpg you're a monster who is going to hell.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#19454: Mar 25th 2022 at 6:27:23 PM

Several of the monsters are just vibing in battles without really having much of an aggressive feel to them

Also I think there’s a book or greeting card you can find that shoots bullets when you open it up

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#19455: Mar 25th 2022 at 7:09:14 PM

I think the main reason I'm preferring Deltarune at the moment is that i really REALLY like the cast in Deltarune. I liked Undyne and Alphys in Undertale, but I didn't like anyone in that game as much as I like, say, Susie right now. And Kris is shaping up to be a far more compelling character than Frisk ever was.

And I was never the biggest fan of Papyrus and Sans. I thought they were well written, but I never found them all that endearing. Papyrus is a bit tooo stupid for my liking, and Sans represents an archtype I've never liked "The laid back cool headed guy who's actually an Almighty Janitor"

Edited by GNinja on Mar 25th 2022 at 2:09:51 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#19456: Mar 25th 2022 at 9:21:08 PM

One issue of Frisk and Kris, is that while the game try to claim Frisk is own chararter...it never feel like that, we don't hear anything from they that dosent make they a empty suit who personality shape depend on our will(which make the discussion about Frisk being non binary more difficult). Kris on the other hand, another story. since it feel like a chararter separate from the player and is clear the relaitonship between the two is not enterely antagonistic, they still need the player for some reason even that result in an awfull thing like weird route.

Also I agree with some critics in that while the game celebrate not killing anyone, it does put a huge burden on Frisk shoulder to just single handling solve the problem of the underworld even a risk of dying several time and since Frisk dosent have any opinion, we dont know how it afect they in any way, so we must suposed he dosent mind dying for some reason.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Oceanstuck Dark Sun, what choices have I...? from see handle Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Dark Sun, what choices have I...?
#19457: Mar 26th 2022 at 2:56:39 AM

Forgive me if I forgot something really obvious but it's not actually evidenced that "you are not Frisk", everyone just sorta fanoned that from what I can tell through the Four Terms Fallacy of "Frisk =/= Chara and Chara =/= you, therefore Frisk =/= you" and an assumption that it was more ~*~thematic~*~ for you to not be anyone at the expense of Frisk being a non-character with no actual free will if you think about it too hard.

Guess that's my hot take for tonight.

Edited by Oceanstuck on Mar 26th 2022 at 2:57:38 AM

i guess you can watch me shitpost i guess
Perseus Since: Nov, 2009
#19458: Mar 26th 2022 at 3:09:34 AM

I mean, basically all of the meta stuff positions The Anomaly as an outside force influencing the game's world, but... sure?

Edit: Upon further examination, during Flowey's speech if you open the game after the true pacifist end, wherein he implores you, the player, not to reset and to just let everyone have their happy ending, he says, quote: "Let Frisk be happy. Let Frisk live their life."

So there you have it. You are not Frisk.

Edited by Perseus on Mar 26th 2022 at 9:25:19 PM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#19459: Mar 26th 2022 at 4:40:21 AM

My pet theory is that Deltarune is an altered Undertale world post true pacifist run.

But even with that in mind, one wonders where Frisk is, and what Chara is up to.

I do think Kris is some form of alternate counterpart to either Frisk or Chara but not literally them.

Kris is the Chara of the Dremurr family, that's the most interesting parallel for now.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014
No longer active.
#19460: Mar 26th 2022 at 10:51:37 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a genuine in-universe connection between Undertale and Deltarune... but not in a way that anyone would expect. It feels like a very Toby thing to make the two interconnected (hence the request that people familiarize themselves with Undertale first) but do it in a way that nobody would think of.

Edited by bowserbros on Mar 26th 2022 at 10:52:02 AM

Be kind.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#19461: Mar 26th 2022 at 10:58:51 AM

I'm still going with Deltarune being Undertale fanfiction written by Papyrus,dude would totally write himself as the hero of the story,the 'knight'

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#19462: Mar 26th 2022 at 11:23:50 AM

I'm kinda hoping that Chara is behind all this and he's having some sort of fight with Gaster behind the scenes.

Or that he'll show up in the weird routes eventually. Something like that is definitely up his alley. Being a representation of all the evil a player can do after all.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Mar 26th 2022 at 2:25:27 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Perseus Since: Nov, 2009
#19463: Mar 26th 2022 at 11:26:05 AM

As a firm believer of the "Chara is only evil if you make them evil" theory... nah. No thanks.

The fandom love to blame everything bad on Chara because it lets them ignore the entire point of the No Mercy run that you chose this and it's your fault. I don't see Toby knowingly feeding into that.

Edited by Perseus on Mar 27th 2022 at 5:28:21 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#19464: Mar 26th 2022 at 11:29:12 AM

[up] Personally, I think of Chara as my partner in all those evil runs.

So hoping to see him again in some form is going to be a big hype point for me personally.

"Let us erase this pointless world, and move on to the next."

Yeah I dislike all those everything is Chara's fault, after all, Chara is the player and the player is Chara. You'll be together forever.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Mar 26th 2022 at 2:44:43 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#19465: Mar 26th 2022 at 11:29:30 AM

Yeah if anything Chara will prolly pop up only as a Hero Antagonist and prolly the same role Sans had in Undertale.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#19466: Mar 26th 2022 at 11:31:11 AM

[up] I'm fully expecting Chara to back us up in the full Weird route.

This has a lot of potential for more evil and carnage, I'm all for that.

I find Chara as a manifestation of all a Player's evil choices to be a very interesting character, and the Weird route being far more psychological in nature would be a great way to bring Chara in the plot.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Mar 26th 2022 at 2:36:58 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#19467: Mar 26th 2022 at 12:04:52 PM

How does them being an aspect of you make them more interesting? There's also the issue that they do have a backstory which is something VERY FEW IRL would do in their place.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#19468: Mar 26th 2022 at 12:09:21 PM

I've always found Chara more conceptually interesting than actually interesting as a character.

I kinda want the main threat of Deltarune to be something new. I don't particularly want more things from Undertale to show back up. I'm more interested in the Dealtarune cast at this point.

Kaze ni Nare!
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#19469: Mar 26th 2022 at 12:09:34 PM

[up][up]I like the idea of choices manifesting as a character personally, and I always find people who pretend the no mercy route was all Chara, not them to be quite telling.

I mean at worst, Chara was just a kid who didn't think things through, not a genocidal maniac who would happily kill his adoptive brother and then the world for shits and giggles.

That's all on the player.

[up] Well okay then, maybe I like Chara more conceptually.

But honestly, I'd be fine if he doesn't show up, since I'm hooked on the new cast. But I personally would find it hype to see Chara back in some form.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Mar 26th 2022 at 3:10:27 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Oceanstuck Dark Sun, what choices have I...? from see handle Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Dark Sun, what choices have I...?
#19470: Mar 26th 2022 at 12:09:56 PM

[up]x11 doesn't flowey call you [CHARANAME] in that scene

[up]*they

Edited by Oceanstuck on Mar 26th 2022 at 12:10:23 PM

i guess you can watch me shitpost i guess
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#19471: Mar 26th 2022 at 12:11:24 PM

[up] Kris is the non-binary one.

I subscribe to Chara and Frisk are whatever genders you assign them personally.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Perseus Since: Nov, 2009
#19472: Mar 26th 2022 at 12:14:14 PM

[up][up] If the number of arrows you need to refer to someone is more than... let's say four, just quote them. It's easier that way.

But if you do mean me, no. Flowey never uses a name in that scene.

[up] It's really not that hard to just refer to a character with the only pronouns the game itself ever uses for them...

RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#19473: Mar 26th 2022 at 12:14:47 PM

For Chara there really isn't an argument why they should have binary pronouns as an option. They lived like a century before the player, they had a family that surely would have learned what pronouns they actually had in about a year of staying with them. The only arguable one for me is Frisk, because we never hear their dialogue and no one Underground knows them.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#19475: Mar 26th 2022 at 12:17:24 PM

I dunno, I like the idea that Chara is the same gender as the player. That's it.

Kris is explicitly non-binary, so I'll use they/them for Kris.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"

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