Think of it this way: In the 1970s, we had The Sting, which took place in the 1930s. Did the filmmakers pad out the soundtrack with '70s rock and funk and disco and all that? Nope. They used ragtime. They did not dilute the time period for the sake of modern audiences, and you know what? People accepted, nay, embraced it. It led to a full-on ragtime revival for a brief period.
Now, tell me, if they could do that before, why not do the same thing with this movie? From my vantage point, all I see is some cheap marketing ploy to sell a soundtrack without any regard, without any modicum of respect, being given to the source material whatsoever.
Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.(adding another post because the edit button isn't working)
And one more thing, I actually find the implication that modern audiences need modern music to connect with the themes of the film. That's giving them far too little credit, making it seem like things need to be dumbed down.
Yeah. As a standlone work,it's pretty epic, it just suggest a completely different story than the one I ended up reading. Honestly, I was expecting something like Titanic meets Twenty Fifth Hour, or Romeo And Juliet meets Scarface, something both thugnificent and hyper-romantic at the same time, not this... thing. No wonder it only sold about 24000 copies before the author died. Why in the heck was it Vindicated by History in The '50s? There's no way anyone would seek to read it if it weren't for all the high school teachers peddling it. Why oh why?
edited 25th May '13 5:04:16 PM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.I think you're missing the point of the book. The fact that they don't grow as characters? That is exactly what you're supposed to think. It's showing the shallowness of that lifestyle and of the people who live it, how utterly pathetic they are and how they are no better than anyone else. The parties and endless boozing? Nothing but a pointless attempt to fill a gaping chasm of a void. The people are "vapid, ignorant, stupid, and irrational." Daisy is spineless and finnicky. As you say, "There is nothing bright or dazzling or roaring about them"—that is precisely the point that F. Scott Fitzgerald was making. You cannot criticize a book for making the point that it set out to make. You're free to dislike it, but if a book gets across its message as clearly as it did in such a subtle way (even if that fact seemed to fly completely over your head), that is not something that it can be criticized for. All the "foul, disgusting" things in the book? You were supposed to feel that way about them.
And one more thing, that "Young and Beautiful" song completely misses the point of the story as well if it's supposed to be about Daisy. Maybe if it's about Gatsby, a man who is all about living in the past—then it could work. But for how people seem to posit it as being about Daisy, it doesn't work. It's not even that great of a song.
Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.It didn't go over my head, it was completely blatant and unsubtle about it, and I resent it for it, because it tried to be sneaky. It's the same feeling as when people complain about Show, Don't Tell, when an author keeps judging a character rather than letting the reader make their own judgment. While here we are left to reach our own conclusions, Fitzgerald practially beats up over the head with them, selecting every single instant of his characters' existence to carry his message and his condemnation, rather than making his characters fully fleshed out humans. There is a sense of selection bias at work. Call me a blind optimist, but I find that so much stupidity seems contrived, and breaks Willing Suspension of Disbelief.
And "It's not even that great of a song" could be applied to any song ever. Try something better.
edited 25th May '13 6:53:13 PM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.Well, like I said, it's fair if you don't like it and think it was too heavy-handed, but don't criticize it for doing exactly what it intended to do. You can say you don't like what it was trying to do, but you can't say that's objectively bad about it.
Just my opinion on the song, relax. I don't feel like going all "deep, critical analysis" on a forgettable song I don't even like right now. I know I'm in the minority when it comes to how I feel about the song, but I can't help how I feel about it. Not to mention, as I said, its themes miss the point of the story as well (see above, everything before the "It's not even that great of a song" that you seemed to ignore).
edited 25th May '13 6:59:05 PM by 0dd1
Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.Look, I think what it did is a bad thing. I'll give it props for doing it competently and efficiently, but it's in the sense of Do Wrong, Right. It's great at being what it is, but it sucks at being a fulfilling story, which is what I need, and, therefore, succeeds smashingly by its own standards, but fails utterly by mine.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.Well, what is it that you want in a story? Can't always have a happy ending where everyone grows. It's a book trying to reflect life, and life doesn't always have people growing or ending up happy.
Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.I don't care. I reject it. I refuse it. I deny it. It is a fantasy masquerading as hard-nosed realism. You want interesting bleak stories that are still humane and leave the reader with a full stomach? Try Honoré de Balzac.
edited 25th May '13 7:27:17 PM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.Well, there doesn't appear to be a thread about the book, and remarks about the soundtrack from people who know about music have been scarce. I just wanted to understand why the track made me feel the way it did when.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.![]()
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That doesn't answer my question, though I'll take the recommendation. As I asked, what is it that you want in a story?
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They're related.
Which track again?
edited 25th May '13 7:31:25 PM by 0dd1
Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.Music has its effects on people. What one person may see as mindless drivel, another might see as something that speaks to them. It's completely normal and fine if you feel the latter about the album, if it, as you said, moves you to tears and fires your imagination. I feel the exact opposite way about it, but don't let that get in the way of your enjoyment about it. It could be "just pop music". But The Beatles were "just pop music" too, and look at how they managed to capture the minds and hearts of so many.
Nothing is happening to you. You just have an appreciation for the music on a deeper level than the average schmoe.
Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.![]()
In the grim darkness of the 1920's there is only peace, and the laughter of thirsty guests
. The only Hemingway book I've ever read was The Old Man And The Sea, and I found the ending tragic and almost pointlessly grim, but also satisfying. A story about a fisherman who gets in a huge epic battle against a massive fish and wins is cool, but unremarkable. A story where said fisherman's prize is then eaten from under him by sharks before he comes back on land is a lot more memorable. Still, the fisherman got to prove his manhood, which was, to him, what really mattered, and so, it wasn't a complete waste of time.
edited 26th May '13 2:47:08 AM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.@Odd1: Luhrmann makes pop-art films. He's using elements of modern pop culture and constructing them in different ways to tell something that wasn't originally intended from his sources (music). Usually pop artists focus on superficiality of modern culture. Luhrmann's choice of source material for his film (a novel about the shallowness of the 1920s) makes as well as the soundtrack (pop music from people like will.i.am) choice make sense considering modern American culture started in the 1920s.
Removing the shallow pop music from its soundtrack would change what he's trying to get across. Don't focus on the sound or whether it's historically accurate. Focus on what the music is + what the message of the film is.
edited 26th May '13 6:11:20 AM by Completion
I thought we could try making a list of when each song appears in the movie, just for fun.
- 100$ Bills: The speakeasy scene.
- Back to Black: Gatsby's backstory.
- Bang Bang: The first Gatsby party.
- A Little Party: Ditto.
- Young And Beautiful: Whenever Gatsby/Daisy is the focus of a scene or gets mentioned. Most prominent during Daisy's tour of Gatsby's house and the second Gatsby party.
- Love is the Drug: Tom and Myrtle's party.
- Over the Love: The aftermath of the first Gatsby party.
- Where the Wind Blows: The speakeasy scene.
- Crazy in Love: Gatsby fixing up Nick's house for Daisy's visit.
- Together: Gatsby and Daisy's affair. First song in the end credits.
- Heart's a Mess: I know it's supposed to be during the credits, and I think it's somewhere in the movie as well.
- Love is Blindness: Myrtle's death.
- Into the Past: Don't know.
- Kill and Run: Don't know.
- No Church In The Wild: Nick's description of The Roaring '20s.
Those are just what was on the soundtrack. I know there's a bunch more that I couldn't place.
edited 27th May '13 9:19:30 PM by Mort08
Looking for some stories?I'm reposting the bit that was thumped in a way that agrees more with the spirit of this site:
I don't think the source material commands respect, nor does it inspire faithfulness or loyalty. From now on, I will speak against it and recommend against reading it at every turn. I found that this book had very little in the way of redeeming traits, besides its sophisticated language, full of witty turns of phrase.
This, I think, is the central point of the book; the characters have no redeeming traits, and there is no redemption for any one of them; no learning, no closure, no hope, no healing.
I would further argue, against those who think the film's soundtrack should have been period-appropriate out of "respect", that the creator didn't seem to have all that much respect for the music of the era. Gatsby's guests, all these bright musicians and celebrities, are never given a chance to shine; the story carefully selects their worst moments to show as evidence of their behavior, and strongly implies that they are representative of how they are the rest of the time.
This seems implausible, because these are people who, on the stage, are capable of tugging at the hearts of their audiences, of expressing powerful emotions. When the novel assures me that they were all worthless, I could only say "I don't believe you".
Good times, good behaviour, goodness of any sort is, in this novel, conspicuous by its absence.
This book was very well written. It was also interesting, in the way that car accidents are interesting. You can't help but gawk. But that's not enough to make it a good story (well, not unless you believe its bleakness is a point in its favour rather than against it).
I find myself unable to listen to this soundtrack anymore. Daisy, I don't think anyone cares much whether he will still love you when you're not young and beautiful anymore. You are have shown yourself to be shallow, irresponsible, and cowardly. I, for one, cannot empathize with your lament any more.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.On hindsight, "Young and Beautiful", although it's a great song by its own virtue, wasn't prime lead single material.
You see, "We Own This" from the Fast and Furious soundtrack roared to #1 on iTunes at one point, and it's comfortable in the iTunes Top 10. And this is from the soundtrack that didn't get all that hype.
While "Young and Beautiful" peaked #22, it suffered from not being radio material. That limited its potential. Good song, but it niche. I'll like to see how "Young and Beautiful" influences the direction of Lana's future music.
What the people behind the soundtrack should be doing right now, is releasing "Bang Bang" and "A Little Party Never Killed Nobody (All We Got)" as a single and making a charge for radio. Neither will get close to "Lady Marmalade", but Baz is missing an opportunity to influence the scene with a summer anthem.
Just my two cents.

Elitism isn't really an insult, but it is a bit of a reproach; not everyone has had the luck to be properly introduced to this or that specific musical genre, legitimately sustaining a musical fanhood isn't inexpensive, listening intently to music is surprisingly time-consuming and doesn't have a lot of crossover with more practical skills (unlike, say, reading), and one can't know every musical label deeply enough to like the stuff that is hard to like.
To sum it up, you sound like you're blaming non-fans who don't know a lot about music for wanting stuff that's easy to listen, and easy to like, and, even, easy to forget.
I remember the first time I heard Yes's Roundabout, I spent about two weeks listening to nothing but that Fragile album, before I had soaked in the song enough that I wasn't obsessed with it anymore. During that time, I could have, I dunno, listened to some audiobook, or studied, or something. It wasn't just the listening time, either; the song kept looping in my head at random times along the day, in all its glorious, maddening, serene complexity. I suppose this music video helped my brain come to terms with it and declare it as "assimilated".
Other than that implication, I find that you made an interesting, enlightening post, and I'm grateful that you did.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.