Well, if it weren't for main characters in any movie ever that made bad choices, we wouldn't have either the movies or the characters to complain about, now would we? As for The Little Mermaid, her bad choice came about when she was upset and angry and therefore not thinking rationally, and really, who hasn't done just that?
Wait...so the first Mermaid sequel is basically Underwater Footloose?
Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.![]()
You're missing the point. What I'm saying is, aside from that one moment of saving Eric, Ariel makes nothing but bad choices and gets rewarded for it. She doesn't even try to make it right — everyone else does it for her.
Compared to Aladdin, who makes some pretty bad choices and is forced to acknowledge them:
And he does. Even to the point of choosing to honor a promise rather than be with the girl of his dreams.
That's why Aladdin and Woody and Merida and others like them get a pass. When confronted with their own mistakes they chose to own up to them and make things right.
Umm, you guys do realize that at the end of the day, they are only fictional characters, right? Please, let's keep things civil because the discussion is fine now.
edited 14th Jul '13 8:07:53 PM by MsCC93
So like I asked before...that Mermaid sequel is basically Underwater Footloose?
Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.Between Merida and Ariel, I think Merida is ten times worse. Ariel might be careless and thoughtless, but when it comes down to it, she simply has this believe of teenagers that she is untouchable and able to deal with everything. And to her credit: While she is stupid to make a deal with Ursula, she doesn't know that Triton is the true target and fells bad the minute she realizes it.
Merida on the other hand...urgh! I for my part am deeply disturbed that she even considers giving her mother a poison which alters her MIND in the first place. There is something really wrong with that. Even worse is how she reacts when her mother is in pain because of the stuff she gave her. She is positively gleeful. And then, when she sees the result of her actions, she needs a whole damn movie to admit that this was her fault? Come on! That's neither a good role model, nor a good character - or a good message, when the only thing she has to do to fix her miss is admitting that she is responsible for it. Real life isn't so easy that you just have to say "I'm sorry".
I really don't get why she gets hailed as something special - just because she carries a bow? This is certainly not the character or movie I want to influence my children with. I rather take Mulan over her any day. Carries a bow, too (and a sword - and a fan), teaches the right values and on top of it demonstrates that you should never try to fit into a gender stereotype, neither female, nor male, but that you should always play by your own strengths.
I have a problem with both Little Mermaid sequels but Beginning is the worse. The villain is basically the director's Mary sue. Sure, she might seem sympathetic but the way she's written makes me wince. Also, the special features on the dvd show the director focus only on the 'underwater dancing' more than the plot making me wonder if she even cared about the product to begin with.
To be honest, I love Triton(I hated how they got Jim Cummings to play him for the third film due to the passing of Kenneth Mars when they could've gotten someone like Kelsy Grammer). His over-reacting in the first film made sense. Ariel's Beginning on the other hand upped his bombastic personality showing the screenwriter had no idea what they were doing with the character.
My favorite direct to dvd sequels actually are the Cinderalla(Lion King as second) sequels. Such as turning the second film into a anthology while the third being similar to a superhero comic elseworld's story.
edited 14th Jul '13 8:27:55 PM by minespatch
I don't like Merida very much either (love Brave, hate the protagonist) and, as I mentioned, the only reason I consider Merida any better is because she (eventually) owns up to and tries to fix her mistake.
But I don't like either of them very much.
This right here. No other scene from a movie has made me dislike a character (that the movie wants me to like) so much as this scene did.
edited 14th Jul '13 9:04:37 PM by CorrTerek
I liked just about all the cast of Brave except our "hero", and like a lot of people was disappointed that they were shoved aside in favor of Brother Bear 3.
Also, that attempt to do a dramatic scene with an anachronistic answering machine gag just felt awkward.
Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the GreatDon't remind me....one thing for sure, Pixar should stick to the buddy stories they do best. I actually don't get how they could go so wrong with Merida, because if you look at the other female characters - Jessie, Ellie, Dory, the entire female Cast of The Incredibles - they are all really well written. And then they do their first female protagonist and go so wrong. So very, very, wrong. But most likely was this the problem, that they were too focussed on Merida being female. It's even more puzzling because her mother is a great character.
BTW: I think the "humour" in this movie is incredible offensive. The anachronism of the witch is grating enough, but at least she isn't an unfunny stereotype (she is just unfunny). But all the Scottish men - does Pixar think that the only way a woman can work as a convincing protagonist is to turn all the men into idiots? Even Pocahontas is less offensive than this tripe.
How exactly got Brave the academy award again? (Yes, I'm still sore about that - there were at least three movies last year which would have deserved it more, above all, naturally Wreck-it-Ralph).
Me and a whole Tumblr fanbase were horrifyingly disappointed when Wreck-it Ralph didn't win. Even at the Grammys, Disney did a whole animation of Ralph holding a award and the film still didn't win. Which is a shame. The film is very existential compared to some of the other Disney films as of late( do Brother Bear and The Princess And The Frog count).
edited 14th Jul '13 11:06:29 PM by minespatch
I got the impression that Brave won because "strong independent woman in a children's movie". At the very least, Wreck It Raplh dominated the Annies. You know, that one award show that only people into animation care about and the general public doesn't know exists. *deep sigh*
As for Frozen...I don't know, I'm actually feeling more excited for next year's Big Hero 6. I know I'll probably at least like Frozen in the end, but the only thing that seems to really interest me about Frozen so far is Elsa.
edited 15th Jul '13 7:39:28 AM by jenkunoichi351
Don't mind me. I'm just a creepy little lurker.The management for the Annies is a joke. The recent ceremony last Winter was soddy, the presenters often commented on how the prompter wasn't on so they kept ad-libbing awkwardly, and the videos for the nominations were hastily edited. Awful. A sheer embarrassment to call themselves in the same leagues as the Emmies or Golden Globes.
You're a very optimistic person, y'know?
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I got the win more as an apology for shutting out Pixar the previous year.
On the "Ariel vs Merideth" discussion, personally I like Ariel inspite of all of flaws because I still found her to be an interesting charcter. Thing about Ariel that I try to keep an open mind about is like most of her "Fairytale Protagonist" predecessor, they tend to be a result of coming from cautionary tales.
Fairy tales weren't meant to teach kids lessons, so the main characters tended to be two dimensional. Two Ariel's credit, she was far more of a round character than Snow White, Aurora, or Cinderalla (but she still had the issue of making dumbass choices.)
Merideth though? Like someone said earlier, Ariel made a deal out of naiviety without knowing that her father was going to be affected by it. Going further, she actually made a sacrifice to chase her dreams. Merideth knowingly tried to warp her mom's mind with a potion and then spent majority of the movie denying that she was responsible for it.
Between the two, I can sympathize with Ariel more because I can understand the prospect of wanting to see a "new world." Merideth was a rebellious teenager who intentionally tried to warp her mom's mind and then it ended up having a completely different effect.
edited 15th Jul '13 11:41:56 AM by Lionheart0
...spoilers with Brave there? It'd be nice if they could be marked. Especially for those of us who haven't seen it yet.

One moment of being proactive versus a whole movie's worth of bad choices.