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Ensemble Dark Horse Cleanup

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PlasmaPower Piece of Cake. Since: Jan, 2015
Piece of Cake.
#401: Sep 8th 2020 at 6:13:59 AM

[up]What is it with people pigeonholing things that aren’t characters into these entries?

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
#402: Sep 8th 2020 at 11:43:54 AM

Pokémon:

  • Ash's Greninja. His species was already quite popular to begin with. But Ash's one gained further admiration. He has a die-hard attitude of being dedicated to his training, only choosing a trainer who could help him get stronger, the mysterious prophecy foretelling greatness for Greninja and Ash. He then went on to become the Breakout Character, where the XY&Z arc gave him the pseudo-Mega Evolution form as a result of synchronizing with Ash, and became Ash's most focused Pokémon for a while. That being said, his popularity took a critical hit following his infamous defeat at the hands of Alain's Charizard. Even so it is still one of the most often-requested Pokémon to make a comeback.
  • Ash's Rowlet quickly earned a fan base due to it's Adorkable, dozy personality, along with avoiding the usual fate of comic relief Pokemon by being one of Ash's most effective in battle throughout early Alola.
  • Ash's Torracat. It already got attention when it first appeared in the trailer as a Litten, before the series had even premiered. While Litten in general are already quite popular due to their grumpy attitudes, Ash's Litten had further appeal by adding in a Hot-Blooded nature and a tendency to burn Ash much like his past fire-types. Then its character got really fleshed out with it trying to look after the elderly Stoutland who ended up passing away. By the time Litten joins Ash's team it already had a special place in the fans' hearts.
  • Ash's Meltan, for both being a cute little powerhouse, being Ash's first Mythical Pokemon, having a fun dynamic with Rowlet, and evolving into the gargantuan Melmetal.
  • Just to complete the Alola team, Ash's Lycanroc fits the bill as well for not only being a big loveable mutt but serving as Ash's main powerhouse throughout Sun and Moon, so much it ultimately wins Ash his first ever games-based Pokemon league. Such a bone throw naturally rose Lycanroc up a good deal among Ash's roster.
  • Ash's Dragonite and Gengar were both very unexpected catches, to say the least, both because they were long-requested Pokémon fans wanted on his roster and because they were caught at the start of the Journeys series despite being fully-evolved powerhouses. Dragonite is a total cuddlebug with enormous battle prowess while Gengar is Ash's first-ever Ghost-type, so naturally they enjoy a lot of popularity.
  • Continuing Journeys ' trend of giving Ash long-requested teammates, his Riolu quickly became a fan-favorite too. Ash's bond with it brings back the plot element of Ash being able to wield aura, while Riolu itself is a very battle-oriented Pokémon that due to its' inexperience can be used to give Ash feasible challenges without underselling Ash's own prowess as a trainer.

Greninja was effectively main character of Ash's Kalos team that series, and fro m the species the creators correctly predicted would become a Breakout Character. This seems to major to count.

Rowlet, Torracat, Meltan, and Lycanroc are the near entity of Ash team witch seems too major to count. Meltan was specially to promote the new Mon in the games. Lycanroc might count.

Dragonite, Gengar, and Riolu were the entity of Ash team when they achieved their popularity. Gengar and Riolu "giving Ash long-requested teammates" means they were supposed to be popular for such. Dragonite might count.

I've long wonder if any of Ash's team (save Charizard who codified the darkhorse traits) are too major characters to count as the seem like main characters. I'd make an exception for any of them minor enough to be Out of Focus / Put on a Bus in-series as opposed to the end of the season per the norm. Thoughts?

Anddrix Since: Oct, 2014
#403: Sep 9th 2020 at 5:12:10 PM

Bringing up the following examples from Blade Runner 2049:

Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#404: Sep 9th 2020 at 7:54:12 PM

[up] How important are they to the plot?

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Anddrix Since: Oct, 2014
#405: Sep 12th 2020 at 10:40:01 AM

Bringing up the following example from Doctor Who S37 E1 "The Woman Who Fell to Earth":

  • Ensemble Dark Horse: The man who throws salad at the Stenza has become very popular within the fandom, being dubbed Salad Man.

ccorb from A very hot place Since: May, 2020 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#407: Sep 14th 2020 at 12:26:39 PM

[up][up][up][up][up] If every character is an Ensemble Dark Horse, then no one is.

magnumtropus Since: Aug, 2020
#408: Sep 15th 2020 at 7:43:51 PM

Is there a trope for "Ensemble Darkhorse works/channels/companies"

Naturally Sadie is not the only work whose YMMV page calls it an Ensemble Darkhorse. AFAIK, The same thing has been done for Invader Zim, Problem Solverz, Toonami, and Blue Sky Studios (at least last time I checked). The Dream Works YMMV page also calls Megamind this trope

Edited by magnumtropus on Sep 15th 2020 at 7:45:21 AM

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#409: Sep 15th 2020 at 7:52:30 PM

[up] Cult Classic might cover some of those works.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#410: Sep 15th 2020 at 7:57:12 PM

...Problem Solverz? Isn't that really hated?

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magnumtropus Since: Aug, 2020
#411: Sep 15th 2020 at 8:00:35 PM

[up]

  • The show in general is this- despite being one of the most hated shows to ever air on Cartoon Network, it's become a cult classic, with it's fair share of defenders

From the shows YMMV page

Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#412: Sep 15th 2020 at 8:02:40 PM

That's be Vindicated by History, then.

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mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#413: Sep 15th 2020 at 8:07:45 PM

I've never seen people go up to bat for Problem Solverz beyond "At least it had an original-looking art style," and I've seen the fandom resurgence of a lot of really hated cartoons like Teen Titans Go and Fanboy and Chum Chum. Fans probably do exist, though, just outside my social circle.

Edited by mightymewtron on Sep 15th 2020 at 11:08:03 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
PlasmaPower Piece of Cake. Since: Jan, 2015
Piece of Cake.
#414: Oct 3rd 2020 at 2:22:20 PM

YMMV.Spiderman Into The Spiderverse

  • Ensemble Dark Horse:
    • The Prowler and Doc Ock seem to have gotten quite a lot of fan love. The former for being an intimidating and cool antagonist with actual redeeming qualities and a surprisingly tragic death, while the latter is seen as a fantastic new take on a classic Spidey villain, combining an attractive design with equal parts wit and menace.
    • Spider-Man Noir is very popular for being an homage to detective movies and having a Batman like synopsis and storyline.
    • Peni Parker is this for anime fans. You'll find a ton of art depicting her, and Wikia noted search results and page hits for her exploded thanks to the trailer.
    • Spider-Ham gained a huge recognition for not only being an homage to various characters from the Golden Age of Animation and being voiced by John Mulaney but also surprisingly delivering one of the deepest, profound yet heartbreaking lines in the film, therefore establishing him as a three-dimensional character as opposed to just a comic relief character.
    • This film's incarnation of Aunt May is one of her most popular portrayals, as she gets to take an active role in helping the Spider-Gang because she knew about her nephew's secret identity and was able to maintain his base of operations. She also gets points for holding her own in fending off villains and for her implied relationship with Doc Ock.

Aren't these main characters? Honestly, I think this is vindicative of the fact that this page has a gushing problem.

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
magnumtropus Since: Aug, 2020
#415: Oct 5th 2020 at 2:19:14 AM

The spideys can go. The rest qualify

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#416: Oct 6th 2020 at 7:40:55 AM

Honestly none of those characters count as darkhorses. All are main characters, even if the spider-people are glorified extras.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
Vilui Since: May, 2009
#417: Oct 6th 2020 at 8:49:03 AM

They can't all be the main character of the work. At most, the protagonist, the sidekick, and the main antagonist are too "main" to qualify for this. Once again, it's ensemble darkhorse, not "minor character darkhorse".

Anddrix Since: Oct, 2014
#418: Oct 7th 2020 at 2:18:33 PM

Bringing up the following example from Batman Begins:

  • Ensemble Dark Horse: Cillian Murphy's chilling performance as Dr. Jonathan Crane is widely considered to be the best thing about the film – and he's many filmgoers' favorite villain of the trilogy, or even the Batman franchise as a whole!

Isn't Jonathan Crane/The Scarecrow a bit too major to qualify.

MalleoWeegee Evolution Requires Sacrifice. from Eurasia Since: Apr, 2020 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Evolution Requires Sacrifice.
#419: Oct 10th 2020 at 2:49:13 PM

From YMMV.Blaz Blue Cross Tag Battle:

  • Ruby's 2P color note , of all things, is picking up steam from fans due to being considered just as cute as, if not cuter than her normal colors. Fans even gave her the name "Blueby Pie."
  • Gordeau. He hails from the least widely known of the four franchises, and is the least important of the four characters representing it in the base game, and yet is the single most played character of the beta test. Being a Rated M for Manly Nice Guy that looks and acts a lot like classic Dante clicked very well with western fans, and there's also the amazing vocal performances by Kosuke Toriumi and Ian Sinclair in both language tracks. The fact that he has a Gambit color scheme, also known as "Gambeau," note  only drew in more appeal from said fans.
  • Vatista, again. Out of all the DLC Pack characters introduced after the game's initial release, Vatista eclipses the rest in terms of popularity, on the grounds that all four fanbases find her absolutely adorable. Even players that don't use her online can be seen using her lobby avatar.
  • Seth. He was, by far, the most requested character after it was revealed he wasn't on the base roster or any of the DLC with Toshimichi Mori being bombarded with requests for him to be added in a future update. One of the biggest reasons Mika became a Base-Breaking Character listed above is because many felt he deserved a spot over her. Fans loved his unique playstyle from his home series and wanted further elaboration on his relationships with Hyde and Linne. Needless to say, when he was among the first additional characters to be added in the 2019 update, there was much rejoicing.
  • To a lesser extent, the team of Naoto Shirogane and Naoto Kurogane has become this for people who like not being held down by the One-Steve Limit.
  • Blitztank. Because of how hilariously different he is from the other characters, people have been comparing him to Piranha Plant as a result.
  • Akatsuki himself. His relatively popular status from his Guest Fighter romp in Under Night endeared him to fans of that franchise already, and Under Night's own Colbert Bump from being included in EVO 2019's main lineup only served to expose him and his home series more than usual.
I removed this a month ago, as neither of these characters are minor NPCs in the game.

Edited by MalleoWeegee on Oct 10th 2020 at 5:49:46 AM

"I SHALL UNIFY THE WORLD! FROM ALPHA TO OMEGA... BOW DOWN TO ME!!!"
datfunkyjellyfish Since: Jun, 2020
#420: Oct 31st 2020 at 6:56:40 AM

YMMV.Sonic Adventure:

  • E-102 Gamma is among the first and few supporting playable cast since the 3D era that rarely brings up bile, despite him being more-or-less exclusive to this game. This is due to his rather interesting plotline and gameplay, as well as having a surprisingly moving Character Development.
  • Tikal. Despite being the game's Exposition Fairy, the same role that rendered her successor Omochao loathed, she is beloved for her gentle, loving and selfless nature, a large contrast to all of the other echidnas seen in the game, and her tragic friendship with Chaos.
  • The Chao are adorable little fairy-like creatures who can be raised in gardens as part of a surprisingly in-depth virtual pet system. A large number of people have admitted to only playing the Adventure games for the sole purpose of raising Chao.

No idea how minor the Chao are, but Gamma and Tikal are major players in the story, so I removed their entries from the page.

tropineasily Currently Suspended Since: Sep, 2018
Currently Suspended
#421: Nov 3rd 2020 at 9:30:17 AM

YMMV.Mystery Skulls Animated:

  • "???" (the green thing that possessed Arthur). The character hasn't done anything plot-relevant (yet), but fans love speculating about the potential Greater-Scope Villain it may turn out to be.
The entry is outdated, the character turns out to be the Final Boss of the series and is thus too major to qualify.

Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#422: Nov 3rd 2020 at 1:04:05 PM

Got it. I'm curious about that entry for Mushi, though; she's only appeared in the last two episodes, but she has big backstory significance and helps Vivi unlock her ice powers, giving her an edge over Shiromori.

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tropineasily Currently Suspended Since: Sep, 2018
Currently Suspended
#423: Nov 4th 2020 at 11:55:06 AM

Mushi isn't the main focus of the story and usually gets only a few seconds of screentime after her introduction. Unless she gains a sudden character importance in the last video, she counts.

tropineasily Currently Suspended Since: Sep, 2018
Currently Suspended
#424: Nov 4th 2020 at 12:09:32 PM

I have another report, YMMV.Minecraft Story Mode:

  • Ensemble Dark Horse:
    • Gabriel is the most popular member of the Order due to being voiced by Dave Fennoy, who voices the main character of The Walking Dead, Lee Everett. The fact that he looks vaguely similar to Lee probably helps as well.
    • Absent-minded architect Soren also received positive feedback for providing levity and goofiness in what is otherwise a very tense and plot-heavy episode.
    • Out of the five kids Action Girl Petra appears to be the most popular. Notable since she arguably gets the least screen-time out of all the kids, especially if you choose Gabriel over her near the end of episode 1.
      • This may be why she had the most screentime out of the old cast in the second season and even received her own character arc.
    • Lukas, possibly due to his similarities to Luke of The Walking Dead, is beloved by the fandom to a ridiculous degree, possibly more than all the other examples.
    • The popularity of these two gets a nod in Petra's interview video if you chose to save her here; Petra brags that she was chosen over Jack because she's the fan favorite, to which Jack replies that Lukas is a better contender, to Petra's annoyance.
    • Out of the Arc Villains, PAMA of Episode 7 seems to be the most popular of them, presumably due to their Faux Affably Evil nature and premise.
    • The Admin is a popular villain due to his powers, personality and hidden depths. Redeemed Romeo has very little screentime but has also received quite a bit of love for being genuinely repentant, for having a good redemption quest and for the heroic sacrifice he may pull if certain decisions were not made.
    • While Ivor himself isn't exactly a Darkhorse, Ninja Ivor is only around for parts of Episodes 4 and 5 of Season 2, and the fanbase pretty much fell in love with him.

Out of all of those, only Gabriel, Soren, PAMA and maybe Lukas actually qualify. Gabriel and Soren get very little screentime, PAMA is an Arc Villain among many others and Lukas is definitely the most popular character in the fanbase, with even the game's critics arguing that he's the only great character around. It helps that he's the group's Sixth Ranger and gets a lot less screentime than the others.

Petra is a main character, The Admin is the second season's Big Bad and Ivor is... iffy. After his Hidden Depths were revealed, he definitely got a huge popularity boost, which continued growing after Episode 5 showed his Adorkable tendencies.

Whether or not he actually counts depends on how major one could see him. He's the catalyst for the conflict of the first 4 episodes, but is quickly upstaged by the Witherstorm, his creation. He's still a major antagonist until his Heel–Face Turn, but is Out of Focus in Season 2. I'd argue that he counts as being a character most people seem to like, but the spoilered part is kind of divisive for being a massive Ass Pull.

tropineasily Currently Suspended Since: Sep, 2018
Currently Suspended
#425: Nov 5th 2020 at 7:40:22 AM

There are also these two entries on YMMV.The Heroes Of Olympus that bother me quite a lot:

  • Leo in The Lost Hero was shilled as 'the sidekick' and not as important as Piper and Jason. Reviewers described him as the only reason they kept reading.
That may be true, but for one, Leo is a Base-Breaking Character and also a main character. Lost Hero focuses on Jason, Piper and Leo in about equal measure, while it's true that people like Leo more than Jason and Piper, it's hard to argue that he counts when he's so integral to the story.
  • Bob/Iapetus
The character definitely counts as an Ensemble Dark Horse: Only appeared in half a book, a reference to a companion book that previously fell under Schrödinger's Canon, a Token Good Teammate of the Titans due to Amnesiac Dissonance and having a skeletal Cute Kitten by his side. What's not to love?

This entry is a textbook Zero-Context Example; it doesn't tell us anything about the character. Khione had the same problem before I fixed her entry, but I never got around to fixing Bob since I still had to read House of Hades.

Edited by tropineasily on Nov 5th 2020 at 4:43:30 PM


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