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Discussion of religion in the context of LGBTQ+ rights is only allowed in the LGBTQ+ Rights and Religion Thread.

Discussion of religion in any other context is off topic in all of the "LGBTQ+ rights..." threads.

Attempting to bait others into bringing up religion is also not allowed.

Edited by Mrph1 on Dec 1st 2023 at 6:51:29 PM

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#3501: Oct 4th 2022 at 4:32:45 PM

Thank you! That’s a very clear description that makes a lot of sense to me.

What I’m getting from this is that aromanticism is a broad term used to describe several different things that don’t necessarily overlap in any way. It’s not “aromanticism means x AND y AND z”, it “aromanticism can mean x OR y OR z”. Which is why I’ve been getting confused by people going “you can have x and y and still be aro” and “you can have y and z and still be aro” and “you can x and z and still be aro”.

I still think “walking past a person and suddenly going 😍” is mostly a Hollywood invention and not experiencing that is the norm so I wouldn’t take the absence of that feeling as aromantcism in and of itself.

Edited by Galadriel on Oct 4th 2022 at 4:40:53 AM

Perseus Since: Nov, 2009
#3502: Oct 4th 2022 at 4:39:54 PM

It's an umbrella term, yeah. A spectrum, much like asexuality.

Edited by Perseus on Oct 4th 2022 at 10:42:23 PM

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#3503: Oct 4th 2022 at 4:42:46 PM

That you for sharing, it really does help a lot.

CosmosAndChaos Peach from Brazil (Don’t ask) Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
Peach
#3504: Oct 4th 2022 at 6:58:34 PM

By the way, I remember witnessing a case of arophobia with a touch of heterosexism. When a man said he was aromantic in a feminist blog, one of the commenters said: "no, you're not aromantic, you're just treating women like they were only for sex like all men are taught to."

Nevermind that he never said he was a heterosexual aromantic.🙄

And even if that's the case, heterosexual aro men are not any more or less likely to treat women like objects than alloromantic heterosexual men.

"Oh, did I win?"
Gabo352 Since: Jun, 2016
#3505: Oct 5th 2022 at 2:16:17 AM

I just want to talk about this with someone, I had a whole long ass post writen, but I clicked save draft and it didn't save.

I am lonely (though I don't think too much about it), I'm not very into my own feelings, I have no friends and have an avoidant-dimissive style of attachment, but I'm pretty sure I'm a romantic person, I get the gooey feelings, I just feel pretty adverse to the idea of them controlling me, but I want a partner, I want companionship, and for a long time I've believed that's what all relationships lead up to, simply as a result of choosing to spend your life alonside another person and supporting each other - to me, love can be a choice, I don't think it matters if I fall deeply in love with someone first, due to finding them sexually attractive or highly charismatic, even if I don't, if I choose to spend my life alongside them I believe I will come to love them all the same.

From that point of view, for me there's not difference between a friend and a romantic partner besides the fact I would never ask a friend to have sex with me unless they asked first, cause I value "platonic" love as much as I value "romantic" love (I don't care about exclusivity, I just want someone that won't abandon me cause they think they must be exlcusive with another person), for me it's all the same even if society thinks you should treat them differently, or pharaphrasing, I think the difference really is ONLY in degrees because you're expected to pay more attention to your romantic partner than your friends, not because calling someone your romantic partner automatically makes these bonds stronger than the one you already have with your friends, but because time and care deepends relationships - but there are obvious platonic types of relationships that are just as strong: Queerplatonic Relationships, Platonic Life-Partners, Bromances (though, this last one has more "romantic" tones, whatever that means). And I find all of those desireable, cause at the end of the day I just want companionship, and I believe many romantic people want it too, even if they believe it is dependent on passion/crushes/being in love first.

So, it's very hard for me to warp my head around how an aromantic person is different from me, if they want the same thing as me (or maybe not all aromantic people want companionship? and I'm just assuming all aromantic people do, just because AlleyOop said they themself would be ok with it?).

Maybe is only my inexperience talking, I've only ever dated once and it was only for four months, but how is companionship in a friendship all that different from companionship in a couple? I mean, I know the way you're supposed to express your feelings differs between the one and the other, but isn't the feeling itself exactly the same?

Is it just the "motions of romance" that aromantics don't like? I mean, that I would get, but that definition seems too undefined, cause the "motions of romance", and even romance itself, are so varied between cultures and time periods... same thing as friendship, now that I think of it.

Edited by Gabo352 on Oct 5th 2022 at 6:21:19 AM

Ominae Since: Jul, 2010
#3506: Nov 28th 2022 at 7:32:12 AM

Law Minister Shanmugam said that it's about time to get rid of Section 377A since over time, almost all of Singaporeans are already accepting LGB Ts.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/ready-repeal-377a-gay-rights-law-k-shanmugam-3105281


https://www.channelnewsasia.com/watch/rahayu-mahzam-constitution-and-penal-code-amendment-bills-relating-section-377a-3105906?cid=internal_mcdrecs_28112022_cna#mdcrecs_s

Senior Parliamentary Secretary Rahayu Mahzam shared views of the Malay-Muslim community on repealing Section 377A. She said some who were gay had told her of being ostracised and even threatened by those close to them, including family and friends. Others, who are not homosexual, fear being labelled as too conservative if they were to share their views, or as too liberal for wanting to approach the gay community. Even among youths who care about the mental well-being of gay friends and relatives, she said there is a spectrum of different views regarding a repeal of 377A. Ms Rahayu said this is not a black-and-white issue, and it is only by acknowledging the complexities that the Malay-Muslim community can forge a path forward as one that is accepting and compassionate to all.

Her speech is in Malay. It's allowed to be used as one of Singapore's languages, but it's mostly used by those who have Malay heritage.

Edited by Ominae on Nov 28th 2022 at 7:35:33 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#3508: Jan 16th 2023 at 10:57:00 PM

[up][up]For context, Section 377A of the Penal Code criminalizes sex between men.

Disgusted, but not surprised
akanesarumara Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: Abstaining
#3510: Feb 3rd 2023 at 1:59:03 AM

Hungary's constitutional court rules in favour of the 2020 ban on sex/name change and gender confirming surgery (I apologize but I only found a Hungarian article on this.)

So in 2020 a law passed banning name change/sex change in your papers and gender confirming surgery in Hungary. Of course LGBTQIA+ activists appealed to the constitutional court because, among other things, this forces trans, intersex and nonbinary people to live with I Ds and names not reflecting their identities and gender, which outs them any time they are ID'd or any time they have to use their official ID's. The constitutional court ruled this was constitutional and not a breach on the individual's right to privacy and private life.

There were some dissenting opinions, notably the spokesperson declaring the ruling added (paraphrased) "You COULD of course argue that what the constitution says about the matter is not the right to the change, but instead that individuals are OBLIGATED to carry ID's and names fitting their identities and gender, which makes the state obligated to provide a way for that", but the ruling still stands.

Interestingly, in 2018, the constitutional court ruled gender identity and name are to be afforded the protection of private life, regarding a case involving a foreigner who had their gender marker changed.

Then again, as the article notes, the constitution changed since then. I also add there are only 2 markers to chose from.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#3512: Feb 12th 2023 at 10:36:48 PM

Moreover this is just really good technology in general, as it can also help restore fertility to cis women too.

Same with the inverse of penile transplants, which can both help cis men who suffered groin injuries or have genital deformations, as well as improve the state of bottom surgery for trans men who desire it.

alnair20aug93 🍊orange fursona🧡 from 🐾Furrypines 🇵🇭 (Long Runner) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
🍊orange fursona🧡
#3513: Feb 13th 2023 at 12:08:20 AM

I sometimes forget that gender reassignment surgery happened as early as 1917. It happened thanks to anaesthetics and sanitation like handwashing and rubber gloves.

Womb transplants are a progression to that, and potential penile implants for trans men. More Mister Seahorses, yay!

Edited by alnair20aug93 on Feb 14th 2023 at 4:11:12 AM

ᜇᜎᜈ᜔ᜇᜈ᜔|I DO COMMISSIONS|ᜇᜎᜈ᜔ᜇᜈ᜔
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#3514: Feb 13th 2023 at 10:15:15 PM

I'm curious, is there any data on the number of women (trans or cis) who would want this procedure? I'm sure it's significant in either case (where applicable) , but just curious if there's anything less vague.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#3516: Feb 26th 2023 at 9:17:45 AM

So, I'm sure most of you remember Keffals, the Transgender Activist who got harassed by a bunch of transphobic trolls all over the world.

Unfortunately, she herself seems to be going down a very bad road currently. I already wasn't a big fan of her due to her spotty past, but now she has openly called her fans to dox people she is having Twitter spats with, while also using the term "Lolcow", a term branded by that forum that shall not be named, and using the ableistic slur "Turboautist". She has also used the R-Word recently and also did a stream, palling around with Sh0eonhead, that is called "Why we left the Left".

Her own community has understandibly been very angry about this development.

Really goes to show you that everyone can fall.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#3517: Feb 26th 2023 at 9:21:13 AM

I've seen a few people go like "well, doxxing her was good then!" and it's like...no, it wasn't, the people who were doxxing her also almost swatted some poor random guy who was living at a place she used to live at. It's like...doxxing is bad. "Doxxing" (the thing right-wing people complain about where someone identifies publicly accessible information that is directly tied to the person, a-la people figuring out who Libs of Tiktok is by looking at her business registration for Libs of Tiktok which has her real name on it because that's how a business registration works) is not.

Just because Keffals is getting worse doesn't mean that the harassment campaign against her was at all okay.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#3518: Feb 26th 2023 at 9:22:59 AM

Of course not, and I would never say that. It just baffles me that she, as somebody who experienced this kind of hell firsthand, would go down to the same level and even use the same kind of slurs that are usually directed towards her.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#3519: Feb 26th 2023 at 9:29:05 AM

Not a fan of the path she's going on. I'd defended her a little when the previous harassment campaign was going on but she's lost her damn mind and it's clear she's more interested in stirring up controversy for clicks over anything genuine.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#3520: Feb 26th 2023 at 9:29:07 AM

One thing I've noticed is that a lot of left (or who position themselves as left) youtubers and streamers seem to have absolutely no problem with using ableist slurs. The r-slur gets thrown around a lot and it's like...I don't get it, why is it so hard for people to not use that term? Especially since it's effectively unreclaimable.

And Keffals randomly ramped up using it a whole lot out of absolutely nowhere and it's like...great, you're alienating a bunch of your own fanbase because apparently getting controversy clicks is better than long-term followers?

Edited by Zendervai on Feb 26th 2023 at 12:30:02 PM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#3521: Feb 26th 2023 at 9:34:39 AM

This seems to be a general problem with a lot of online activists - eventually, the "Internet culture" affects them, and they start doing things for clicks and money rather than the cause.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#3522: Feb 26th 2023 at 11:19:34 AM

One thing I've noticed is that a lot of left (or who position themselves as left) youtubers and streamers seem to have absolutely no problem with using ableist slurs. The r-slur gets thrown around a lot and it's like...I don't get it, why is it so hard for people to not use that term? Especially since it's effectively unreclaimable.

I think this largely comes down to 1) not agreeing it's a slur versus just another (albeit more biting) insult at this point and 2) not agreeing that even if it is a slur it's on the same level as several other words that legitimately shouldn't be spoken.

My feelings on that are... complicated. I don't use the word in question, and I get being disappointed in/not liking the people who do, but I do think there are understandable arguments for those positions. At the very least it doesn't seem inherently disingenuous like basically all conservative arguments are.

Edited by LSBK on Feb 26th 2023 at 1:22:48 PM

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#3523: Feb 26th 2023 at 11:47:02 AM

The problem is that the word has two meanings. A really nasty medical one, and a non-medical one that means "slows things down". There's not really any way to reclaim or defend it and it's just been in use as an insult, went away after the 90s and then a bunch of non-disabled people seemingly just decided to bring it back. I'm a disabled person who's a common target for words like that and I think I have more of a right to decide if it is or is not okay than Keffals does.

It's like how it's not really possible to reclaim "Asperger's" because it's named after an actual Nazi who used it to categorize which neurodiverse children would be useful to the Nazis and which should be euthanized. The base context and source of the word is bad enough that it shouldn't be used ever. (I don't give a shit if Hans Asperger was actually a card carrying Nazi or not, he was an active collaborator. Also he maybe stole a bunch of research from a Jewish woman)

Edited by Zendervai on Feb 26th 2023 at 2:52:24 PM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#3524: Feb 26th 2023 at 11:51:37 AM

I don't usually see "defenses" of it, though. No one claims it's a "good word", the argument is usually it's no more ableist than so many other words we use to attack intelligence.

Now, you can argue that we shouldn't be using those words either (and I'm aware there are people who do that) and even more broadly we shouldn't be denigrating (perceived) lack of intelligence as an insult. I can see the good that would do, while also seeing that is much less likely to actually ever be a thing.

No one is talking about "reclaiming" these words, because it's not about empowering anyone, it's more going "this word has moved away from that medicalized meaning and is now just used as an ordinary insult." and see no reason to treat it as more than that at this point.

Again, you can vehemently disagree with all of this, but I see where those arguments come from.

For my part, I just don't think it's worth it when I know there are people it does matter to, and it's not hurting me to not use it.

Edited by LSBK on Feb 26th 2023 at 1:56:21 PM

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#3525: Feb 26th 2023 at 12:53:50 PM

Y'all, this is getting off-topic, take it to a thread about ableism.


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