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Discussion of religion in the context of LGBTQ+ rights is only allowed in the LGBTQ+ Rights and Religion Thread.

Discussion of religion in any other context is off topic in all of the "LGBTQ+ rights..." threads.

Attempting to bait others into bringing up religion is also not allowed.

Edited by Mrph1 on Dec 1st 2023 at 6:51:29 PM

ciyinwanderer Since: Dec, 2018
#3226: Sep 16th 2021 at 12:27:41 PM

[Great, a page topper]

The discussions I saw of the [Bell v. Tavistock appeal] hearings made me hopeful, but I'm still worried things could go wrong since that's the general direction of things this year.

Edited by ciyinwanderer on Sep 16th 2021 at 3:28:23 PM

This signature was thumped to preserve the dignity of the moderators.
TommyR01D Since: Feb, 2015
#3227: Sep 16th 2021 at 1:08:58 PM

Back in July I embedded the court footage of the appeal hearings.[1]

ciyinwanderer Since: Dec, 2018
#3229: Sep 17th 2021 at 6:20:34 AM

[up] gringringringrin

Glad that shit decision was overturned.

This signature was thumped to preserve the dignity of the moderators.
Captain1312 Since: Aug, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
#3230: Sep 17th 2021 at 1:34:42 PM

[up]The court noted that the original claim should have been dismissed outright. Hopefully the NHS will amend their rules and start up the service ASAP.

1212, 1312
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#3231: Sep 17th 2021 at 5:28:40 PM

Can someone summarise the legalese?

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#3232: Sep 17th 2021 at 5:30:31 PM

The court threw out the lower ruling and said that under 16s are able to consent to puberty blockers.

I’d assume on the basis that we let under 16s consent to other medical treatments that are prescribed by a certified doctor.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#3233: Sep 17th 2021 at 5:38:36 PM

Oh, the summary PDF is... somewhat clear? Or basically, "it's not the role of the courts to decide if someone is competent enough to consent to medical treatment; we're not a general advice centre. We answered this before."

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#3234: Sep 17th 2021 at 11:23:30 PM

There's a lot of "what the fuck were you people playing at" in regards to the Bell side's case.

Oh and one of the lawyers on that team has admitted publicly that this wasn't about trans kids, it was about overturning Gillick competence in all cases.

Edited by Deadbeatloser22 on Sep 17th 2021 at 7:27:44 PM

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#3235: Sep 18th 2021 at 2:24:47 AM

Two-for-one hate, why am I not surprised?

Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#3236: Sep 18th 2021 at 11:40:22 PM

Love the hypocrisy of claiming to be protecting children from "lifelong irreversible consequences" when it's precisely what puberty blockers are for protecting against.

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#3237: Sep 18th 2021 at 11:44:33 PM

Also, doctors, parents, and the minors in question apparently can't make an informed medical decision! No, you need to ask a judge. Who knows literally none of these people and is experienced in interpreting legalese, not the capability of medical practitioners.

I'm sure judges would be thrilled at having to deal with this, even if (as intended) it gets to them vanishingly less than such decisions are ever made. Which is probably one of the biggest roadblocks in question: you're trying to get a high court to agree to perpetually waste their own time playing doctor.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#3238: Sep 19th 2021 at 1:07:55 AM

Me, I wonder if this is the American tendency to litigate every contentious issue spreading in other countries.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#3239: Sep 19th 2021 at 1:14:31 AM

I don't think so? They're trying to overturn a... 40-year-old judicial decision, here? Remember, the UK is a Common Law country too (well, Scotland's even more complicated) and that's where the USA got it, so judicial precedent does set law when Parliament doesn't specifically codify it.† Ergo, they want to revise the law so that minors can't access contraception and abortion services (or puberty blockers or... basically anything that might have some definition of "lasting impact"; tbh you could probably extend that to most dental services) without judicial approval of their competence—the current settled law is essentially "that's what doctors are for, don't bring us into it unless all parties involved disagree" (again, IIRC).

† IIRC, most of our contract law and negligence is confirmed by judicial precedent, not legislation.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#3240: Sep 19th 2021 at 5:37:54 AM

I don't think their behavior has anything to do with how litigation-happy Americans can be, it's just bigots trying to use judicial power to enforce their bigotry. They're just trying to use every tool available to advance their ideological goal of hurting trans people.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Sep 19th 2021 at 5:53:57 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Elfive (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3241: Sep 19th 2021 at 6:34:30 AM

But yeah ruling against puberty blockers on the grounds that they do something they don't actually do was just... dumb.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#3242: Sep 26th 2021 at 11:23:49 AM

Meanwhile in Switzerland it seems the referendum on same sex marriage has passed, with every canton and 64.1% of voters voting in favour.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
TommyR01D Since: Feb, 2015
#3243: Sep 26th 2021 at 1:24:23 PM

I've seen it said that Keira Bell will appeal to the UK Supreme Court, though the court's own website has no mention yet of the case. I don't know how often their permission to appeal page is updated.

TommyR01D Since: Feb, 2015
#3245: Oct 15th 2021 at 3:07:24 PM

The Lord Winston has been alternately vilified and deified online following his appearance last night on Question Time.[1]

The panel discussed the case of Kathleen Stock, a "gender critical" feminist, trustee of the LGB Alliance and Professor of Philosophy at the University of Sussex, some of whose students are campaigning for her to be fired.

Most of the discussion was over academic freedom, sensitivity to minorities and standards of political debate. Fiona Bruce asked Winston to comment on these points as a former Chancellor of Sheffield Hallam University, but he preferred instead to use his position as a biologist to weigh in on the specific issue that caused this latest controversy:

"I will say this categorically - that you cannot change your sex. Your sex actually is there in every single cell in the body. You have a chromosomal sex, you have genetic sex, you have hormonal sex you have psychological sex. They're all different. We are very confused about this unfortunately and regrettably it's got into this argument that people would now accuse me of being transphobic - "

"Well, I mean obviously there are trans people who say you absolutely can do that."

"Well unfortunately you can't say this publicly, this is one of the great problems. Even saying this on this program undoubtedly will result in me getting a huge amount of hate mail, it always does, but I do think it's a big issue about the attitudes - there are, of course, issues which are important about young people who are confused about their sex but we won't go down that route here - but it does affect a whole lot of issues in schools and elsewhere in our society. Of course we should accept people as they are. Overall I think it's a very sad thing that we can't discuss biological science without actually getting completely caught up emotionally with something which is really completely wrong."

"Well, as I say, there are people who would vehemently disagree with you so I'm just, you know, gonna make that clear."

"Yes, I know."

Edited by TommyR01D on Oct 15th 2021 at 3:08:12 AM

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#3246: Oct 15th 2021 at 3:11:41 PM

> biological science

If that’s the truth then why does every actual expert in the field disagree?

"Yup. That tasted purple."
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#3247: Oct 16th 2021 at 3:09:33 AM

Seems like he is using sex in a different way (chromosomes) than the one the rest of the world uses.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#3248: Oct 16th 2021 at 3:11:34 AM

Except that chromasomes as the absolute determinant is also what the G Cs use.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Delibirda from Splatsville Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: I wanna be your dog
#3249: Oct 16th 2021 at 4:26:13 AM

Hell, I was AMAB, and I may have XX in my cells.

"Listen up, Marina, because this is SUPER important. Whatever you do, don't eat th“ “DON'T EAT WHAT?! Your text box ran out of space!”
Elfive (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3250: Oct 16th 2021 at 12:39:33 PM

Ok hang on:

chromosomal sex <- Fair enough, can't be changed. Doesn't actually matter a great deal in day to day life.

genetic sex <- Isn't this the same as chromosomal sex?

hormonal sex <- pretty sure this is what HRT is all about fixing, and seems to have the most effect on the body.

psychological sex <- pretty sure this just means gender.


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