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Needs Help (new crowner 9/23/13): America Wins The War

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NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#26: May 7th 2013 at 12:50:39 PM

If we're going to merge this with America Saves the Day, then what's the dividing line between America Saves the Day and Creator Provincialism?

I'll be honest and admit that it sort of annoys me that America is singled out. It's not like Americans are the only people guilty of Misplaced Nationalism.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#27: May 7th 2013 at 12:55:53 PM

Creator Provincialism covers much more stuff.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#28: May 7th 2013 at 1:00:19 PM

And America Saves the Day covers much more stuff than America Wins the War, but we're talking about merging those.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#29: May 7th 2013 at 1:01:54 PM

I am interested to know about the historical accuracy argument.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
SantosLHalper Since: Aug, 2009
#30: May 12th 2013 at 6:38:20 PM

So does anyone have a new description for this?

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#31: May 12th 2013 at 8:01:46 PM

I don't think we've decided what the new definition should be yet?

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Sackett Since: Jan, 2001
#32: May 27th 2013 at 7:07:12 AM

I don't agree with merging them.

This is a pretty prominent trope among a significant sub-genre of movies. Hollywood World War II films tend to play this straight all the time.

There's no reason to get rid of an obvious trope just because it could be included under the super trope. In that case why have sub tropes at all?

This case is particularly worthy of being a sub trope because it can be argued that this trope developed before America Saves the Day, and that in fact America Saves the Day developed out of this trope. Essentially Hollywood took America Wins the War and decided to apply it outside of World War II (and World War I).

Looking at the page there is a single line about this not apply solely to America winning World War II, which I think is a mistake. Let's just have this as a clear trope about America being depicted as the ones that won WWII (and I think we can include WWI as well, to America the same tropes tend to apply).

Rethkir Since: Mar, 2013
#33: May 27th 2013 at 9:53:02 AM

The trope name is rather vague. It looks like just another name for America Saves the Day. WWII should be in the name, like America Won WWII or America Wins WWII.

edited 27th May '13 9:53:39 AM by Rethkir

MorganWick (Elder Troper)
#34: May 27th 2013 at 1:43:50 PM

America Punched Out Hitler, and then the cover to Captain America #1 can be the page image. Oh wait, never mind, the current image is perfect as is.

edited 27th May '13 1:45:43 PM by MorganWick

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#35: May 27th 2013 at 10:11:00 PM

I still don't see what separates either America Wins the War or America Saves the Day from Misplaced Nationalism and/or Creator Provincialism.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#36: May 27th 2013 at 11:07:06 PM

These have a lot more aspects than this and also lack the Artistic License qualifier.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
SantosLHalper Since: Aug, 2009
#37: May 28th 2013 at 5:33:45 AM

I think it should be expanded to include all examples of countries claiming the credit for winning a war, not just America and WWII.

edited 28th May '13 5:34:07 AM by SantosLHalper

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#38: May 28th 2013 at 5:38:27 AM

I don't think the broader version exists with substance outside of WWII.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Rethkir Since: Mar, 2013
#39: May 28th 2013 at 7:12:31 AM

This trope is about the notion that America is singlehandedly responsible for defeating Germany in WWII. Expanding the definition changes the entire meaning of this trope.

SalmonPunch I never asked for this from Connecticutt, USA Since: Feb, 2013
I never asked for this
#40: May 28th 2013 at 7:25:21 AM

This trope, while narrow in theory, applies to so many examples from so many forms of media that its not that narrow anymore.

I agree with Rethkir, this trope only needs a new, clearer name and a maybe a little revising.

"You like Castlevania, don't you?"
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
shoboni Since: Oct, 2010
#42: May 28th 2013 at 8:17:19 AM

I still agree with number 37, expand the trope to cover any country doing this sort of thing.

Rethkir Since: Mar, 2013
#43: May 28th 2013 at 8:31:11 AM

Are there examples of other countries doing this for other wars? It wouldn't seem right to have 95% America in WWII and 5% miscellaneous. There are already enough examples in fiction that America winning WWII is tropeworthy on it's own. It needs a rename.

edited 28th May '13 8:32:20 AM by Rethkir

shoboni Since: Oct, 2010
#44: May 28th 2013 at 9:56:04 AM

My guess is there is in foreign films and propaganda films.

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#45: May 28th 2013 at 10:46:06 AM

Well, our bare minimum is three examples to even consider declaring something a trope. If you want it expanded to cover any country, lets have some actual examples, not generic statements that "It occurs in propaganda films" or such vague non-examples.

edited 28th May '13 10:46:56 AM by Madrugada

shoboni Since: Oct, 2010
#46: May 28th 2013 at 1:43:46 PM

Let me go make a request in my chat group about that.

crazysamaritan NaNo 4328 / 50,000 from Lupin III Since: Apr, 2010
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
#47: May 28th 2013 at 6:46:05 PM

We could always, yaknow, MAKE the trope of "Nation enters the war to win" as a supertrope to the current one. Since WWII is pretty much an established subgenre or war films, a trope that deals with that specific subgenre would pretty much call for a unique folder just for WWII and America, even IF we expanded this trope.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#48: May 28th 2013 at 9:41:16 PM

^ That's... not a trope.

Every nation enters a war planning to win, outside of parodies or satire like The Mouse That Roared.

The issue in this thread is fictional works where the "source" country is made out to be the main reason a war was won, as a subtrope of Artistic Licence – History.

All your safe space are belong to Trump
crazysamaritan NaNo 4328 / 50,000 from Lupin III Since: Apr, 2010
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
#50: May 29th 2013 at 9:47:15 AM

Er, I meant to phrase it such that the war existed before the participation of the country, and the actions taken by the country won the war. I wasn't trying to imply a NEW trope out of this. Merely reference the trope that would exist if this one is changed from America to All Countries. I was TRYING to do it quickly, instead of typing it all out.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

PageAction: AmericaWinsTheWar
6th Jun '13 9:57:13 PM

Crown Description:

What would be the best way to fix the page?

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