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DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#951: Oct 13th 2021 at 6:35:27 PM

My understanding of the challenge facing solar power is that most of the generation potential is located in regions far from the centers of consumption.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#952: Oct 13th 2021 at 6:38:54 PM

That is one problem, yes, although people in tropical areas during summer would probably disagree about peak power consumption.

The keys to effective use of solar are

  • High efficiency transmission lines
  • Distributed production: using rooftops in addition to massive plants in the desert
  • Battery storage

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#953: Oct 13th 2021 at 6:39:16 PM

That’s where batteries or other forms of energy storage can come in. That and we might end up with custom infrastructure for moving heavy energy loads between storage facilities with minimal bleed.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#954: Oct 15th 2021 at 10:29:16 AM

Large wind farms can destroy stratocumulus clouds - evidence from large eddy simulations - parking this here for reference.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#955: Oct 15th 2021 at 10:34:46 AM

To note for people, those are a type of cloud cloud and they do good things, so destroying them is bad.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#956: Oct 15th 2021 at 12:02:08 PM

I can't imagine any clouds that'd be good to destroy. tongue

raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#957: Oct 15th 2021 at 12:42:55 PM

Only the ones carrying acid rain maybe?

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
MarkVonLewis Since: Jun, 2010
#958: Oct 15th 2021 at 3:39:39 PM

Random thought: I think the best solution to nuclear waste is strap it to a rocket and shoot it into space. That way it'll be someone else's problem, at some future time and place.

But nuclear needs to be embraced.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#959: Oct 15th 2021 at 4:45:20 PM

"That’s where batteries or other forms of energy storage can come in."

Right now, batteries are too expensive to serve as a long distance transportation medium. I doubt they will ever rival gasoline. Solar alone is never going to be enough.

Which is a nice segue to:

"I think the best solution to nuclear waste is strap it to a rocket and shoot it into space. That way it'll be someone else's problem, at some future time and place.

But nuclear needs to be embraced."

Nuclear is key, but the waste problem is a chimera. No amount of nuclear waste (or leakage from accidents) could ever approach the level of danger and destructiveness that climate change is going to cause. Nuclear has to be part of the equation. So just bury it somewhere and move on.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
KnightofLsama Since: Sep, 2010
#960: Oct 15th 2021 at 4:47:10 PM

[up] Launching something (especially something as heavy and dense as nuclear waste and its shielding) into a no return orbit is hard and expensive. Cheaper and easier to dig a large hole in an active subduction zone and let plate tectonics do its thing.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#961: Oct 15th 2021 at 4:47:27 PM

Trying to work out how to bury it so that it's not just left around willy-nilly to potentially irradiate people in thousands of years is like the only thing we're good at long term planning for! Don't abandon that! [lol]

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#962: Oct 15th 2021 at 4:53:54 PM

On the launching thing: rockets fail from time to time. If even one of those launches doesn't get to orbit, we are fucked.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#963: Oct 15th 2021 at 4:57:24 PM

"Trying to work out how to bury it so that it's not just left around willy-nilly to potentially irradiate people in thousands of years is like the only thing we're good at long term planning for! Don't abandon that! [lol]"

Snrk!

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#964: Oct 16th 2021 at 4:47:07 AM

Yeah, the "launching nuclear waste to space" thing is utter nonsense - too expensive and energy-consuming. Now the ESA is planning to use certain bits of nuclear waste (mainly radioactive americium) to power satellites and probes but that's a special case that can't be generalized to all waste.

Electricity transport by wires is a well established concept, I am not sure what batteries have to do with this.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
xyzt Since: Apr, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#965: Oct 16th 2021 at 5:08:28 AM

Would thorium based nuclear reactors, if and when developed on a commercial scale, reduce the nuclear waste problem as I am to understand the byproducts of a thorium reactor would be far less dangerous than the nuclear wastes of current nuclear reactors?

Edited by xyzt on Oct 16th 2021 at 6:22:05 PM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#966: Oct 16th 2021 at 5:48:11 AM

"Far less dangerous" is an exaggeration - the problem children [strontium-90, caesium-137] are the same for any kind of nuclear reactor. There would be some small shifts in how frequently certain fission products are formed, but it won't add up to much.

The main distinction is that on top of fission products, uranium-based chain reactions creates a cornucopia of actinides such as neptunium, plutonium, americium etc. which are long-lived, toxic and readily absorbed by the human body. Thorium fission creates only protactinium and some super-radioactive uranium species on top of the fission products.

Oh, and one of these "super-radioactive uranium species" is so radioactive that you can drop dead merely from standing next to it. That makes it very difficult to create nuclear weapons out of thorium, as the radioactivity [and heat production] kill workers and damage the ignition mechanisms.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#967: Oct 16th 2021 at 7:03:34 AM

"Electricity transport by wires is a well established concept, I am not sure what batteries have to do with this."

The problem is that electricity passing through wires experiences a loss of energy per every mile traveled. It's large enough that using wires for the transfer of electricity over more than a couple of hundred miles or so isn't considered practical. There is also a seasonal variation problem. Therefore to get solar power from where it is most easily produced (equatorial regions in summer) to where it is most needed (developed nations in both summer and winter) is a challenge.

Shipping electricity in batteries is the obvious solution, but right now they cost too much to be economically viable for this purpose. So a lot of time and money is being invested in a search for a more cost effective battery.

Edited by DeMarquis on Oct 16th 2021 at 10:04:19 AM

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#968: Oct 16th 2021 at 7:10:39 AM

Eh!? Batteries also discharge with time even if unused.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#969: Oct 16th 2021 at 7:12:39 AM

Exactly. Renewable energy is not a complete solution right now.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#970: Oct 16th 2021 at 7:20:11 AM

The problem is that electricity passing through wires experiences a loss of energy per every mile traveled.

Isn’t that loss rate going to vary a lot depending on the quality of the transmission medium? Electricity is normally transmitted via open-air wiring drawn between towers. But we know that the transition of information can be improved dramatically by using better transition mediums, so why can’t it be done with raw electricity?

We’ve got huge undersea cables that are used for internet communication, why can’t similar bulk infrastructure be built to transmit raw electricity?

Edited by Silasw on Oct 16th 2021 at 3:20:52 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Smeagol17 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#971: Oct 16th 2021 at 7:31:56 AM

Apples and oranges. For energy transfer, what matters most is voltage and medium. And even gold is not much better then what we already use. So, before affordable superconducting wires are invented, this will not be practical.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#972: Oct 16th 2021 at 8:44:29 AM

Okay, so we are conflating a lot of things now. Let's take a step back and look at the big picture.

  1. We don't want to gather all our electricity in the same place, for a variety of reasons. Distributed generation ensures that a single event can't wipe out all our power, it reduces transmission losses, it allows communities to be self-sufficient, and so on.
  2. Wind tends to be deployed in large, expensive installations. Solar can as well, but is extremely flexible and can scale down to individual homes. It makes sense to spread out our generation very widely.
  3. We do have technology to reduce transmission losses dramatically. It's just that it will take significant investments to upgrade all of the lines in our nations. Modern infrastructure can handle local generation, has low losses, and is resilient to outages.
  4. Renewable energy sources like solar and wind don't generate evenly across the day and do not sync up with peak demand. This means we need battery storage to soak up the excess and dole it out when needed. These batteries have higher density than generation facilities, so will take up correspondingly less land.
  5. The grid should be backstopped with nuclear, hydroelectric, geothermal, and other steady sources so that there's always at least some power being generated.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#973: Oct 17th 2021 at 8:58:17 AM

So, I've been wondering how providers who claim to use all-renewable energy work (I mean, it's certainly easier here), and if it actually makes a difference in the long run.

... also helps when it's the cheapest energy available to me, but that wasn't the reason to switch last year. [lol]

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#974: Oct 17th 2021 at 9:45:37 AM

Can you provide an example?

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#975: Oct 17th 2021 at 9:53:54 AM

An example of a provider that claims that? Octopus Energy.

All our electricity comes from 100% renewable sources like sun, wind and water

There's quite a few of these in the UK.


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