Aule and Yavanna have valid reasons to want to be in middle-earth. Not only, as you said, Sauron was once Aule's follower; but the end of the Third Age is also the time during which the Dwarves are starting to reduce in number (to die off completely somewhere during the Fourth Age, I presume). As the creator of the Dwarves, it would be perfectly reasonable of Aule to want to keep an eye on them during these difficult times.
And as for Yavanna... well, she protects all plants and animals, and during the First Age she was one of the most vocal opponents of the "leave the Middle-Earth to Morgoth" plan. And there are Ents in Middle-Earth, who are her creation and who are also going extinct.
edited 10th Apr '13 11:03:22 PM by Carciofus
But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.![]()
Hmm... I don't think that we have any hint of Bombadil being present in any way outside of that little patch near the Shire; my impression was that he was limited to that little realm alone. If so, then it seems to me that the "genius loci" explanation seems more likely than the "spirit of Arda" explanation, and fits the same pieces of evidence just as well.
(While that patch of the world may not be the same as it was under the dark before the sun and moon, we don't know that Bombadil hasn't changed since then either.)
edited 11th Apr '13 2:12:03 PM by ArsThaumaturgis
My Games and Asset PacksNot true, unless they gave up their claim after Morgoth's defeat. The Valar did come to Middle-Earth in their full power during their first few altercations with Morgoth before the Years of Sun.
True, but its also possible that that limitation is self-imposed rather than forced. Maybe its Goldberry's limitation, and Tom refuses to abandon her.
Related:
- Essay
arguing for Tom Bombadil being Aule.
- Essay
arguing against Tom Bombadil being Aule.
- Part of
the essay above discussing other possibilities for Tom's existence.
edited 11th Apr '13 6:40:37 PM by shiro_okami
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I was under the impression that their relinquishing of authority was only in that particular instance. Also, the text you quotes says "laid down their government of Arda". Arda includes Middle-Earth and Aman/Valinor, so according to your reasoning, the Valar don't rule Valinor anymore, either.
The reason they sent the Istari in humanoid form was because they didn't want a repeat of the continent-destroying War of Wrath.
Hm. Perhaps my interpretation is wrong. But I thought that in that case, Aman was removed from Arda, which was made round. After that, going from middle-earth to Aman was not really just a matter of moving through space, or at least not just that; rather, it involved an "ascension" of sorts, to use religious language (which in this case, I think, is appropriate).
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If he is a Maia, why was he unaffected by the Ring, when Sauron, Saruman and Gandalf obviously were affected by it?
edited 12th Apr '13 7:34:54 AM by Carciofus
But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.Or he's a very short Ent.
Or (to be slightly less crackpotty, but only slightly) he might be Maglor
, the least assholish of the sons of Feanor — we know that he threw his Silmaril in the Sea and did not return to Aman, but kept wandering in Middle-Earth, singing about his loss of the jewel.
He was called "strong-voiced" and "the mighty singer" — and, you know, Bombadil's songs "are stronger songs, and his feet are faster"; and after successfully giving up the Silmaril (yeah, it burned him; but it burned Morgoth too, and still he kept it), the lure of the Ring would be a very small thing to him.
Maybe he settled down in the Old Forest?
edited 13th Apr '13 9:48:08 AM by Carciofus
But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.Still, Maglor is not in any sense "eldest and fatherless", nor was he around before the arrival of Morgoth; and like all Feanorians, he was a grim fellow obsessed with his Oath and with the Silmarils (although perhaps not to the degree of his brothers).
But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.I was mistaken, you actually are right on that point, so its possible that Eru removed Aman from Arda as a direct result of the Valar's abdication. Even so, I still don't think that means they would have completely abandoned Arda, and would have sent a force similar to the one they sent during the War of Wrath again if the situation warranted it. Even if the Valar no longer hold authority over Arda (even before Akallabeth the Valar never ruled Middle-Earth directly), Eru does.
Eru does; but the Valar don't, I think, at least not until the Dagor Dagorath.
Remember the poem about the Istari:
that was long secret
of the Five that came
from a far country?
One only returned.
Others never again
under Men's dominion
Middle-earth shall seek
until Dagor Dagorath
and the Doom cometh.
edited 15th Apr '13 10:47:17 PM by Carciofus
But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.I dunno. But on the topic of the Five Wizards, I really like Aaron Diaz
's drawing of them.
Speaking of the wizards I find this picture
of a younger Saruman, Gandalf, and Radgast interesting since it was based on how their actors looked when they were younger.
Also Tom Bombadil is the Master.
Apparently not. According to Tolkien's letters, all the Wizards except for Gandalf "failed" in their own ways, and to varying degrees. JRRT speculated that more than one destructive Eastern cult might be attributable to the Blue Wizards, and Radagast apparently allowed his love of the local fauna to overrule any other responsibilities he might once have been charged with. What little info we have suggests that they were subsumed into their mis-chosen projects on Middle Earth, and diminished along with much else of their kind.
edited 18th Apr '13 8:23:43 AM by Jhimmibhob

The key to identifying Tom Bombadil lies in a few pieces of information.
The last statement means Bombadil cannot be Eru. If Morgoth was the first Vala to enter Arda, and Bombadil was in Arda before Morgoth, then Bombadil cannot be a Vala. Other Maiar besides Sauron could be affected by the One Ring, but Bombadil was not, therefore he is likely not a Maia.
One of the best theories I have ever heard are based on Galdor's statement. Galdor links Bombadil with the "earth", therefore Tom Bombadil is the nature spirit of "wild" Arda, "wild" here referring to any area that is left natural and abandoned or untouched by sentient inhabitants that would alter it (ie. build houses, pollute, etc.); notice that Tom's area of movement is apparently limited to areas uninhabited by the five races. The reason I make that designation is that Galdor also says that Sauron, in a sense, has power over the earth; therefore, if Bombadil was the spirit of all of Arda itself, the condition of the earth wouldn't matter or weaken Bombadil just as long as it existed, but according to Galdor that is not the case. Perhaps Tom Bombadil cannot exist or has no power in places like the Dead Marshes and the Desolation of the Morannon (Black Gate).
Goldberry is also a nature spirit, mentioned as the river's daughter.
edited 10th Apr '13 8:18:34 PM by shiro_okami