TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General Religion, Mythology, and Theology Thread

Go To

Since we've gotten told to stop talking generally about religion twice in the Homosexuality and Religion thread and were told that, if we want to talk generally about religion, we need to make a new thread, I have made a new thread.

Full disclosure: I am an agnostic atheist and anti-theist, but I'm very interested in theology and religion.

Mod Edit: All right, there are a couple of ground rules here:

  • This is not a thread for mindless bashing of religion or of atheism/agnosticism etc. All view points are welcome here. Let's have a civil debate.
  • Religion is a volatile subject. Please don't post here if you can't manage a civil discussion with viewpoints you disagree with. There will be no tolerance for people who can't keep the tone light hearted.
  • There is no one true answer for this thread. Don't try to force out opposing voices.

edited 9th Feb '14 1:01:31 PM by Madrugada

Angelspawndragon King of the Seven Rhinos from That haunted house in your neighborhood Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
King of the Seven Rhinos
#24251: Aug 3rd 2025 at 9:55:26 PM

^^ I’m gonna have to bookmark that page for later research, that’s actually pretty crazy there’s that many.

And, yeah, like, how have almost all of them been forgotten?

Chain an angry nature god at your own peril.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#24252: Aug 3rd 2025 at 10:08:07 PM

[up]I'd imagine it's down to Devil, but No God. People tend to make stories involving demons because they're edgy and work well as antagonists, so angels tend to be left unmentioned in pop culture, etc.

Leviticus 19:34
KnightofLsama Since: Sep, 2010
#24253: Aug 4th 2025 at 4:07:22 AM

If I remember correctly the 72 demons of the Ars Goetia are supposed to have at least as many corresponding angels.

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#24254: Aug 4th 2025 at 11:12:13 AM

the other big reason is that much of the pop culture focus goes up to around seven to nine at most. Even SMT doesn't have much beyond representatives of the ranks and the aforementioned.

And that is on top of Sailor Earth cases where writers just make up members to the heavenly hosts, making it more confusing when the figure use is an actual but obscure one.

Demetrios Lucky Seven from Des Plaines, Illinois (unfortunately) Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Lucky Seven
#24255: Aug 16th 2025 at 6:33:08 PM

Watching Horror of Dracula made me think of this one. What’s the story behind the classic idea that driving a wooden stake through the heart is the best way to get rid of a vampire once and for all?

Come on! Let's bless them all until we get fershnickered!
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#24256: Aug 16th 2025 at 6:51:34 PM

there is a trope about it, that might answer that question.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Aug 16th 2025 at 6:51:55 AM

Demetrios Lucky Seven from Des Plaines, Illinois (unfortunately) Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#24258: Aug 16th 2025 at 7:53:30 PM

Funnily enough, wooden stakes didn't kill vampires in the original Dracula book. It only immobilized them long enough to cut off their heads, and Dracula himself isn't even staked. He's stabbed in the heart with a regular knife before being decapitated.

Ookamikun This is going to be so much fun. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
This is going to be so much fun.
#24259: Aug 17th 2025 at 4:29:30 PM

It probably makes for a less gory finisher in fiction.

Gaiazun Since: Jul, 2020
#24260: Aug 18th 2025 at 1:16:03 PM

Corpses were literally staked to prevent them rising from the grave as undead but also may have been used literally in certain areas were soft soil and rainy conditions might cause a corpse in a shallow grave to rise out of the ground.

Demetrios Lucky Seven from Des Plaines, Illinois (unfortunately) Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Angelspawndragon King of the Seven Rhinos from That haunted house in your neighborhood Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
King of the Seven Rhinos
#24262: Aug 18th 2025 at 11:59:11 PM

As I recall, isn’t staking a vampire something that originated in an occult belief, as a means of binding the undead spirit to its own body, and decapitation is actually what kills it?

Chain an angry nature god at your own peril.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#24263: Aug 19th 2025 at 12:10:35 AM

Vampire: The Masquerade and later Vampire: Requiem are more faithful to the old folklore. A wooden stake in the heart doesn't kill a Cainite but it does paralyze them and eventually forces them into Torpor (a state of dreamless hibernation).

Edited by M84 on Aug 20th 2025 at 3:10:47 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Angelspawndragon King of the Seven Rhinos from That haunted house in your neighborhood Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
King of the Seven Rhinos
#24264: Aug 20th 2025 at 6:48:24 PM

Unrelated, but is it specified that, if you died in battle, you had to do with your own weapon in hand to get into to Valhall, or any other Warrior Heaven for that matter? Or could you get in with any weapon, so long as it was a weapon?

Like, say you lay dying on the battlefield but your sword or axe got knocked away, so you manage to grab a spear, or a different axe or sword, or even a bow with an arrow right on top of it just before passing on, would that still count?

Chain an angry nature god at your own peril.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#24265: Aug 20th 2025 at 7:07:09 PM

I'm not even sure if the weapon in hand thing is actually from the original source material or if it's just a modern interpretation.

Disgusted, but not surprised
KnightofLsama Since: Sep, 2010
#24266: Aug 21st 2025 at 12:50:05 AM

[up] Given that Beowulf goes through multiple weapons across some fights in the original poem, I'd say its likely a modern re-interpreation.

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#24267: Aug 21st 2025 at 7:47:00 AM

So I want to ask about a lesser known Japanese kami named Iwanaga-hime...

Or rather if there is anything of substance myth wise being her being Konohayasakuya's sister?

Demetrios Lucky Seven from Des Plaines, Illinois (unfortunately) Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Lucky Seven
#24268: Aug 22nd 2025 at 5:21:03 PM

I just finished watching the first season of Blood of Zeus. Good show, by the way. cool[tup] Watching a show about Greek mythology made me remember this part. Yeah, what's the deal with that? On both sides of the Mediterranean, the gods were siblings and spouses at the same time. :S I still remember the joke my friend Max made about it. He said the Greek gods were "the original hillbillies." tongue

Come on! Let's bless them all until we get fershnickered!
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#24269: Aug 22nd 2025 at 5:28:29 PM

the general reason might be the result of the purported origin from a single point. which isn't exclusive to divinity

With the Greeks specially there was once a single entity (Kaos) who created several deities (the Protogenoi), who by virtue of being the only sapient and/or living beings around messed around with each other and siring various progeny (the Titan), who in turn sired their own progeny (the Olympeans. Though Kronos did near his damnest to prevent that from happening) with each other despite humanity being created around that point.

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#24270: Aug 22nd 2025 at 6:59:22 PM

It's possible Mycenean royalty followed a similar pattern to Egyptian royalty with incest, which transferred to the gods. Cause the pharaohs sure had a stereotype going. I wanna say the Greeks were more icky about the subject (e.g Oedipus) but, well, the Ptolemaic dynasty sure followed Pharaohnic traditions to the letter? [lol]

Edited by alekos23 on Aug 22nd 2025 at 5:00:57 PM

xyzt Since: Apr, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#24271: Aug 22nd 2025 at 7:49:54 PM

[up]Couldn't it just be ancient Greeks holding gods and humans to different standards rather than Mycenean royalty being incestuous? After all in Greek mythology, the gods are sunless no matter what things they do, and can only be humbled by god's greater than them. A lot of things done by God's would be considered evil if done by Greek royalty even back then I believe. So them being incestuous doesn't have to translate to their initial followers being incestuous or such.

Edited by xyzt on Aug 22nd 2025 at 8:21:04 PM

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#24272: Aug 22nd 2025 at 7:54:35 PM

Honestly it's not really a Mediterranean thing either. Most deities will be kinda incestuous one way or the other if they have a common origin, and most of the time they kinda do.

Angelspawndragon King of the Seven Rhinos from That haunted house in your neighborhood Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
King of the Seven Rhinos
#24273: Aug 22nd 2025 at 9:53:26 PM

Throwing this out there myself (with no research to back it up), it’s possible that in the mythologies of the oldest tribal peoples (meaning, the point in time just before the Mesopotamians arose as the first empire/kingdom, but after we as a species largely transitioned out of being Hunter-gatherers) only considered their gods as siblings in the metaphysical sense and thus the inherent incestuous nature of their relationships wasn’t something they thought all that much about.

Chain an angry nature god at your own peril.
xyzt Since: Apr, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#24274: Aug 22nd 2025 at 10:07:43 PM

[up]Or it could also be possible that the oldest tribal people may not have seen incest as all that bad either. That is a possibility too. For instance, Buddha used his tribe's incestuous origins as a point of pride to show why his tribe and kshatriyas in general were superior to Brahmins of his time and place in terms of lineage (against a backdrop of some Brahmin trying to put his tribe down on the issue of purity).

Ambattha went to meet the monks; he wasn’t courteous enough, fidgeted about, and was admonished by the Buddha for doing so. Ambattha asserted that the Brahmanas were superior to everyone else. He scoffed at the Buddha’s descent and said that the Sakyas were lowly people. As proof, he reported that he had gone to Kapilavastu and had not been properly honoured by the Sakya assembly; in fact its members had made fun of him. This gave the Buddha an opening to discuss this important issue. He asked Ambattha which family he belonged to, and Ambattha replied that he belonged to the Kanhayana gotra. The Buddha then narrated the following account of the origin of the Sakyas and Kanhayanas: Long ago, a king named Ok-kaka, wanting to divert the succession in favour of a son born of his favourite queen, banished his older children. They went to the Himalayas and lived on the borders of a lake and married their sisters in order to preserve the purity of their line. This was the origin of the Sakyas. Now king Okkaka had a slave girl named Disa, who gave birth to a baby. The Kanhayanas were the descendants of this child. The Buddha had driven home the point that his lineage was superior to that of Ambattha, and the latter was forced to acknowledge that this was so. The Buddha then softened the blow by pointing out that Kanha, Ambattha’s ancestor, was a great sage. He went on to quote a supposed verse of Sanatkumara (according to legend, one of the five mind-born sons of god Brahma): The Kshatriya is the best of those among the fold who put their trust in lineage. But he who is perfect in wisdom and righteousness, he is the best among gods and men.

Edited by xyzt on Aug 22nd 2025 at 10:41:31 PM

Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#24275: Aug 23rd 2025 at 3:44:38 AM

[up]Some cultures seeing incest as nonproblematic or even good never ceases to baffle me considering most animals will go out of their way to avoid inbreeding.

[up][up] That's something I've considered myself.

Edited by Kaiseror on Aug 23rd 2025 at 5:46:39 AM


Total posts: 24,527
Top