Date a Live

So Shido's last name isn't Itsuka, but Takamiya? What are you implying, Issac? And you're pretty much lying about not knowing anything about that...

Is the Takemiya thing really a spoiler?

I figured that would be his real surname ever since season 1 with Mana Takemiya's appearance and the reveal that Shido was adopted into Kotori's (Itsuka) family.

Although I suppose the main thing would be how Westcunt knows about that. Then again, Westcunt runs DEM Industries, which Mana used to work for, and DEM did basically turn Mana into a super soldier (at the cost of most of her lifespan) and may or may not be the cause of Mana and Shido's memory gaps.

What was in your right hand is hope; And in another hand is something else to fade.

The reveal is that Takamiya is actually Shido(and Mana)s real name(i.e. it wasn't made up by DEM and given to Mana), not that they are related, which we already basically knew.

It was one of those detail things that basicly got dropped, but it's strongly implied(and later, basically confirmed) that Ratataskor is composed of DEM defectors. They have their own backing company(called Asgard Enterprises) and everything. They also have slightly better realizer tech than DEM(who seems to be catching up), but not by a whole lot and much smaller overall force(not counting the sealed spirits). It's not clear if they disagreed with Westcott's plan or killing the spirits(or both).

It's also implied that Kotori didn't entirely trust them so she forced them to make her commander(they needed Shido and she would be a problem if she got pissy enough), and she assembled a group of lolicon BunnyEarsLawyers that would be personally loyal to her.

Shido and Kotori's memory gaps are implied to be a result of the encounter with Phantom when she got her powers. DEM didn't seem like they knew anything about Shido before Ellen met him on the island(they may have known he existed, but didn't think he mattered).

x3 The stats are from a poster book that I think was an extra with something. (possibly the PS 3 VN, so they could relate to that). I saw the top stats translated once, but I can't find it now. One was overall power and one was space quake strength I think. Can't remember the others.

edited 14th Jun '14 12:08:35 PM by kiukiuclk

Actually found a translation. Threat level, space quake scale, astral dress, and angel.

Tick-Tock is the only one with an S-class angel (which kind of makes sense, because time hax), and threat level. Though inverse Tohka has SS-class threat level, and I'd assume the inverse versions of the others would also be more powerful, so I'm not sure how to count that. Otherwise, Tohka has AAA-class in everything except space quakes, where most of them have low rankings, aside from the twins, at AA-class. And as actually shown in the first season, Kotori has stronger space quakes than Tick-Tock.

The case logs there are quite amusing. Especially Tick-Tock's, with how she decided to stand out less.

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I'm amusing by the fact that Inverse Tohka is apparently only one point smarter than normal Tohka- and normal Tohka's intelligence is easily the lowest stat anyone has.

edited 14th Jun '14 2:06:16 PM by Gilphon

"Canada Day is over, and now begins the endless dark of the Canada Night."

Getting inversely powered up doesn't really do much for your mental capacity. Not so much Good Is Dumb. But what I do like is that she's portrayed as legitimately less intelligent, rather than mostly just being dumb because plot and funnies.

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x3 Thanks, I was looking for that.

It wouldn't make sense for obvious reasons, but I would have liked to see Origami's stats.

What I found interesting about Inverse Tohka was that she actually seemed to be the same as Tohka's original personality, before she met Shido. Just minus the depression. It was sorta like all her character development got rolled back. Westcott implies that the inverse is the spirits natural form in the spirit dimension

Yeah, having stats for people like Origami would just mean stats for whatever she's packing at the moment. More about the equipment than her.

I wonder where Shido would stand. Though just like with the above, it depends on what powers he's got active at the moment. And there's just one person's powers he can't access at all. Unless maybe he says pretty please and pats her on the head.

Inverse Tohka did seem a little more aggressive and more set in her way, I think.

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Yeah. Mainly I would be curious about the int stat for the others. :)

Shido is weaker than even the limited release spirits I think, so he probably wouldn't really register much on a scale designed for full powered versions. Ellen is probably the only Wizard who would have a meaningful ranking there.

Int wise, Origmai would probably be close to Tick-Tock(not sure which way). Shido would probably be about the same as Yoshino. (i.e. in the middle).

Dunno about that. Origami was certainly able to put up a fight against spirits at the end of last season, and that red-haired girl (and Mana) seem to be of comparable power.

edited 14th Jun '14 4:49:51 PM by Gilphon

"Canada Day is over, and now begins the endless dark of the Canada Night."

Aw, Chuuni Kurumi would've been awesome. Well, Kaguya's here to pick up the slack.

Yes, Shido. Your life is equivalent to Instant Yakisoba. As well as any other thing that will send Tohka careening into the Inverse Zone. And it probably will be often, considering her intelligence.

And Inverse Tohka's no better.

Hmmm... I don't know why, but Yoshinon Right doesn't have the same feel of awesomesauce as Yoshinon Left. Well, in case of emergencies...

I wouldn't rate Origami that high in intelligence. On a technical level, like school subjects and logic, she's definitely high, but when it comes to thinking outside the box and lesser defined forms of deductive reasoning, especially in social contexts, not that high. So it depends on what definition of intelligence we're speaking of here. Tick-Tock seems far more all-around intelligent, and Kotori doesn't seem that book smart.

I'd rate Mana (and Jessica) a bit above Origami in overall power level.

Would she even count as Chuuni since she really does have special powers? I was imagining a more piratey eyepatch, though. Or some other variant that isn't a medical one. Still, the choice she did go with does look good.

Also, I think it's pretty clear why Lina is so destructive.

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Tohka is kinda like that also. Knowledge is a component of intelligence and she don't got it. And she is waaaay to trusting of people. The novels mention she got decent grades. She would probably be average if she had the same knowledge and background as everyone else. I would probably agree with you on Origimai.(and yeah, it does depend on the definition we are using). It's implied that Kotori has been dealing with Ratatskor the last few years and doesn't actually go to school that much.

Power level wise it's more straightforward with wizards than it is with spirits. Less funky matchup effects like Time Hax or Efreet Healing that make it difficult to tell. Ellen is far and away the stongest. As you said before, it depends on equipment alot. It also depends on how you count the purifying treatment(i.e. what Mana had).

Before last episode they gave Jessica a speed purifying treatment(like was done to Mana, but faster and even worse for you; she went a bit mad from the power). Even driving the prototype Mana still managed to beat her, so Mana is #2.

Origami is stronger than the normal Jessica, but probably a bit weaker than the the one in the final episode. (She also had significantly weaker equipment there also). Wescott later mentions that the purifying treatment might make her as strong or stronger than Ellen. So she's basicly #3 or 4, depending on which version of Jessica you count.

To be fair to Shido and his 'power level', it's not like he can safely go all out like the Spirits, if at all. Humans can't handle Spirit powers that well. Swinging Sandalphon even once puts quite a strain on him, and he also seemed strained after passing through Kurumi's Shadow 'dimension'. It's only through sheer willpower that he even made that far this time.

When I referred to Shido and Mana's memory gaps I was talking about their lack of memories of their childhood. Unless Phantom was responsible for that too.

Origami could fight Limiter Released (LR) Spirits (season 1) and an army of Wizards and Bandersnatchers (season 2) because of White Liquorice. In regular gear, she can at least not get insta-owned by LR Tohka alone.

Is Kotori's Meggido Mode her equivalent of Tohka's Halevanhelev Mode?

What was in your right hand is hope; And in another hand is something else to fade.

So, are we having a relatively rational power level discussion, without tons of fanwanking?

I think Shido can go as all out as the plot requires him to go. Probably also a time factor, so he can use more power for less time.

Well, according to the stats, Kotori's angel is weaker than Tohka's (AA vs AAA), but they're probably equivalent enough. Tohka's got more physical power to use it, while Kotori's got more spirit power to power it up with.

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Yes, I think we are having a rational power level discussion. What is there to wank ?

When I asked about Kotori and Tohka, it was just due to the similarities. Halvenhelev and Meggido are basically Limit Break versions of Sandalphon and Camael respectively, so I was just wondering if they're equivalents. More powerful versions/varients of Angels with different names.

I would assume all Spirits have this kind of Limit Break variation, right?

What was in your right hand is hope; And in another hand is something else to fade.

Yes, I think we are having a rational power level discussion. What is there to wank ?

When I asked about Kotori and Tohka, it was just due to the similarities. Halvenhelev and Meggido are basically Limit Break versions of Sandalphon and Camael respectively, so I was just wondering if they're equivalents, at least in terms of mechanics. More powerful versions/varients of Angels with different names.

I would assume all Spirits have this kind of Limit Break variation, right?

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Isn't there a way to get rid of accidental double posts?

edited 15th Jun '14 7:24:12 AM by Sykosis

What was in your right hand is hope; And in another hand is something else to fade.

Yeah, it's basicly implied that all spirits have one or more FinishingMoves like Halvenhelev. The Yamai showed theirs in episode 4 when they blew up the airship. Kurumi seems to have only finishing moves(her bullets), and Yoshino has never shown one(her freeze ray actually seems to be the equivalent of Tohka's SwordBeams.

x5 In Shido's case, his main problem(power-level wise) is he doesn't do astral cross-dressing. The secondary powers spirits get from their raiment are actually pretty good.

edited 15th Jun '14 12:24:37 PM by kiukiuclk

And now I want fanart of Shido wearing the Astral Dresses.

"Canada Day is over, and now begins the endless dark of the Canada Night."

Can't say I'd be happy seeing him wear the Kaguya/Yuzuru's Astral Dress.

Or Kurumi's because of how it just wouldn't fit him very well, color-wise.

MMORPGs are serious business.

Remind me, what secondary powers do the Astral Dresses have?

What was in your right hand is hope; And in another hand is something else to fade.

Tohka's normal dress would probably fit him the best. Or Miku maybe.

Everyone gets a Bee Hive Barrier(force field) and flight. They also seem to have a rarely used, short range teleport or Flash Step power. They have actually all used it at one point or another.

Does that mean that the AST/Wizard gear is basically an artificial version of an Astral Dress?

What was in your right hand is hope; And in another hand is something else to fade.

I've heard someone hypothesize that the wiring suits used by the DEM are reverse engineered from the Astral Dress of the spirit they have captive.

MMORPGs are serious business.

I'm not 100% certain 'reverse engineer' is an accurate term- it seems to me there's a non-trivial chance that DEM is responsible for the spirits existing in the first place. And if that's true, they wouldn't need any captive spirits to create those suits.

edited 15th Jun '14 1:19:08 PM by Gilphon

"Canada Day is over, and now begins the endless dark of the Canada Night."