monty used less keyframes to basically have characters teleport between correct fighting stances, making things look super sharp and fast, but he was able to pull that off because he's also super good about follow through so things don't actually look like they're teleporting with the reduce frame count.
"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter
Exactly. And he combined that with really good coreography and camera work to make fights feel a lot more solid, faster and more satisfying. He also had a good sense for continuity and positioning, something RT animation has been very guilty of messing up or intentionally overlooking since he passed away.
edited 28th Nov '17 2:19:58 PM by TheLovecraftian
Welp. That was a thing.
- Catchup highlights: some call backs to earlier episodes, mistakes and jokes. Ruby geeks out over Yang's arm. Obligatory 'we're growing up' aesop from Ren that'll probably bite them in the arse later on.
- I've been wondering what would happen if Yang's arm ever came off in battle. Looks like she's weaponised that thought.
- Ooh, Yang's face went evil as soon as Qrow showed up. Raven's started something there.
- Oh, look, a gear-influenced clock. Somehow they always manage to find a clock motif for Ozpin. It almost like they're trying to drop time-based foreshadowing for something.
- Yeah, Yang's not happy. Raven's definitely started something.
- Look at Ozpin trying to spin the bird secret in a positive way. And Qrow doesn't seem happy that Raven revealed this. There's obviously something going on with the bird transformations that hasn't been revealed.
- Yeah, looks like Oscar's starting to get spooked by Ozpin's revelations. But he said 'we what?!' which suggests the Ozpin/Oscar merge into one being is progressing.
- And look at Jaune's face when Ozpin reveals the bird ability. He looks as pissed off as Yang. Jaune and Yang are going to be Ozpin's sticking points.
- Qrow points out that he and Raven had a choice and wanted it at the time. Yang looks surprised by that. Raven left that bit out, so the real question is what does Raven genuinely feel about the bird ability.
- The wizard power comes from the curse and has been dwindling with time. That does confirm he created the Maidens. It also indicates that every time he uses magic, he loses it and is left with less each time. So, his magic does not regenerate.
- So, Ozpin's philosophy is that you fight or abstain, but never retreat. That removes the option of strategic retreat. Guess we need to know what his definition of 'retreat' is because, in context here, it sounds like 'retreat' means 'change your mind later on when you have better information to change your original choice'. Giant. Red. Flag.
- Yang makes it clear her continued co-operation depends on Ruby and then dumps all responsibility for being right about everything in the future firmly on Ruby's shoulder. No pressure, Ruby.
- Ozpin magnanimously tells the kids to bond for tonight, instantly causing Yang to finally drop her guard, relax and smile. While he stands beside her and touches her shoulder. That conveniently ends the kids' interrogation of him. And he definitely hasn't answered all questions, and they haven't asked enough. Raven would be disappointed.
- Ozpin only said 'Understood' after exchanging a look with Qrow, who shrugged as if to say 'up to you, mate'. Which suggests that both Qrow and Ozpin are conspiring to keep secrets.
- If I was Yang, I'd be worried about Ozpin's 'Understood' because it's not a promise to stop lying or telling half-truths. Just look at this episode alone:
- Ozpin indicated the beneficial side of his curse was a plural, but only ever talked about the magic - which is a single benefit. Implication? He's still hiding something about his abilities.
- If his power is finite, that means he doesn't choose just anyone. So why did he choose Raven and Qrow? And Raven suggested Yang ask Qrow how the transformation works; she didn't ask.
- Ozpin didn't really answer Ruby's question about whether or not he's done this to anyone else beyond Qrow, Raven and the Maidens. Which means he probably has.
- There's no discussion of why Ozpin was holed up in the forest as a hermit for centuries. And no discussion about why he created the Maidens as he did: he gives the fairy tale's version (gifting the Maidens to do good), but we know they're Relic keys... and the kids don't ask about the discrepancy, whether Ozpin's the original Relic key, why he gave up being the key or whether he's still capable of being a key now.
- Did Ozpin deliberately give the Maidens the ability to 'reincarnate' the way he did (and do they 'reincarnate' the way he does, or is it just the power?), or was it a side effect of the magic coming from his curse? Does that mean Qrow and Raven will suffer the same fate — 'cursed' to reincarnate as a raven-shapeshifters for as long as Ozpin keeps reincarnating? That might explain Raven changing her mind at a later date.
- He hoped the four sisters would use the magic for good. Does that mean some of the original sisters went bad?
- They didn't once ask for extra information on Salem beyond what Qrow and Raven have told them.
edited 28th Nov '17 2:47:46 PM by Wyldchyld
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.Well, we don't know what the transformation does to their bodies. However, my big question is whether or not the Maidens are going through a reincarnation cycle the way Ozpin is because the magic they're carrying comes from Ozpin's curse.
If that is the case, then it's possible that Qrow and Raven will now suffer the same fate. If they found out that side effect later on, after making a choice to receive the power and responsibilities, that could explain why Raven changed her mind, if she definitely has changed her mind, that is.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
I'm definitely thinking that might be the drawback to the power; Ozpin shared his curse with them, not just his power. Not that I'd regard eternal life as a curse outside of Age Without Youth, but it's usually treated that way in fiction, and here at least you have the small issue of losing yourself inside a massive gestalt of souls.
Also, this is the first time in the show that Ozpin's come across to me as outright sinister rather than just a bit shady.
edited 28th Nov '17 5:26:36 PM by CaptainCapsase
So I was busy with holiday stuff and got behind on RWBY. Watched episode six yesterday and episode seven today.
Not going to comment on all six pages of discussion I missed, but I'll hit the highlights.
I guess I don't really get Raven's deal. If she wants Yang to join her gang, all she has to do is stop treating Yang like shit and she'd probably join in a heartbeat. Yang's got a serious "Well Done, Son" Guy thing where she wants Raven to respect her. I honestly think that Raven does respect her more than Yang realizes, but she never shows it, and Yang's too stubborn to stick around just to try to impress her unpleasable mom. But at the same time, Raven seems genuinely surprised and displeased when Yang blows her off, so I don't think that she simply doesn't actually care about Yang (except as a potential strong and loyal recruit). It's possible that Raven simply doesn't understand Yang very well and was expecting Yang's hero-worship for her mother to have more of an influence on her — but not understanding her own daughter plays against the idea of Raven being smart and perceptive (which basically everything else about her has suggested), and relying on Yang's sentimentality getting the better of her would seem like an obvious weakness that Raven, with her "strength uber alles" attitude, would despise.
I like the idea of Raven as a powerful third-party figure not aligned with either Ozpin or Salem but still powerful enough to influence the conflict between them. But as she (finally) gets some more screentime and a bit of development, she's not quite gelling into a fully realized character. What we really need from her is a proper motivation. If she's all about strength, then why not stick with Oz for more of that sweet wizard power? If she just wants to survive, then why not work for Salem so as to be on what she clearly sees as the winning team? If her main focus is on loyalty, then why abandon Tai, Crow, and Yang? Without knowing what her real driving motive is, Raven's just sort of incoherent.
Honestly, while Ozpin hasn't been entirely forthcoming with everyone all the time, I don't think we've ever seen him manipulate or trick anyone. He helped RWBY and JNPR train to fight grimm and defend humanity — something they'd all volunteered for. When he wanted something more from Pyrrha, he was up front about what he wanted from her and what the risks involved were. He doesn't go shouting from the rooftops that he's an immortal wizard fighting a shadow war with the queen of the grimm, but so what? I'm not going to condemn him for that unless he actually abuses his knowledge to steer people in directions they wouldn't go if he told them the truth — which we haven't seen him do.
edited 28th Nov '17 6:00:01 PM by NativeJovian
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.I think Raven's issue is mostly a case of badly-explained Blue and Orange Mentality (uh... how do I link to tropes here? I have no idea...).
She clearly values strength and family, but in specific meanings rather than the overall concepts. She values one's own strength and ability to stand on their own feet, as opposed to having things handed to themselves or using others' strengths to replace your own. And she values family of a different kind, instead of the "people you're born with" thing we're used to, sticking to a more "people who gather under a similar goal" kind of thing. She also seems to like Yang more than she admits, which might be her own little conflict, since she wants Yang to be around as family, but can't seem to convince her to stick around.
Of course, I'm getting to all of this mostly on context clues and interpretation of Raven's actions and how people describe her. I could be horrendously wrong. But that's how I've been understanding her.
edited 28th Nov '17 6:21:47 PM by TheLovecraftian
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Camecase. So a pothole to Blue-and-Orange Morality would be typed LikeThis
I'm slightly worrying I might end up dropping RWBY. Which I really don't want to do. But I missed an episode 2 weeks ago and hearing that it was more of the top issue I have with the series just made me go "Eh, I don't need to watch this one." Then hearing what happened in the newest episode invoked the same response.
I'm hoping that the next episode doesn't do that to me for three weeks in a row. I seldom drop shows, but I'm starting to worry if it's becoming a chore. I need that good, strong episode that reminds me again why I like it.
Improving as an author, one video at a time.I'll openly admit that this volume has been a bit rough to get through. We're at episode 7 and absolutely fuck all has happened as of yet other than putting the girls together. There have been two fights in those seven episodes, and mostly pointless and circular talk. Frankly, it's kind of weird, considering usual RT quality for their scripts. But I wouldn't give up just yet. They've proven us wrong before with their story, and dropping this series mid-volume I feel would be a little hasty. But certainly keep that possibility in consideration if you're already feeling like it. When the volume ends, look back on it with that in mind and ask yourself if that's a level of quality you're willing to risk going through again in the future.
Personally, I do think this has been the worst volume in RWBY yet, and I really want to know what's happened to RT that this is what they're giving us. But they're still mostly in my good books, so I'm willing to slog through the roughest parts.
edited 29th Nov '17 4:08:58 PM by TheLovecraftian
Last season, I found myself getting bored partway through so I just dropped it until after the finale and binged the rest. It's a lot easier to make it through dull parts if they last a few hours instead of a few months, so I find that a good strategy when you're losing patience with a show but still want to follow the story.
Does anyone actually read these?@The Lovecraftian They haven't made me feel I'm wrong about them yet. I still don't believe in them as storytellers and there's many things I can point to for why within RWBY. That said, this show did have its own charm to it and there are aspects I enjoyed. You don't get this far on a show you hate.
But I'm starting to fear the bad is outweighing the good since they're just terrible at pacing. The worst volume remains Volume 4 for me so far, but I do feel my current feelings are a bleed over from volume 4 and volume 5 just continuing many of the same issues. It's hard to have faith in something when it's consistent in what your problems are and not in what you took joy in.
At most I feel they have some really cool ideas and there's strong moments in a vacuum, but they're not the best at consistency, structuring stories, pacing, and some other things.
I'll see if that helps!
edited 29th Nov '17 4:32:10 PM by Prime_of_Perfection
Improving as an author, one video at a time.Hm. I quite like how they do stories, although since V4 they have been growing weaker on that front. I truly enjoy the first three volumes, though, and I also like how RT handles Red Vs Blue (Last season notwithstanding) and the writing there. By no means are any of these amazing, but I find them quite enjoyable. RWBY, I think, suffers more from this recent drop in story quality because a lot of the attraction of the series is the action, and that has been rather subpar recently, so while they can mask the worst aspects of Red Vs Blue with the comedy, which is their central bit, RWBY has just been lacking all around, and it's not showing many signs of improvement. So I get why you're not so keen on their storytelling, and that being the case, yeah, I can see why you're considering dropping this series. I don't personally agree, but I can see where you're coming from, and you have a good point.
RT can be good storytellers (see parts of Red vs. Blue, especially that kickass pair of prequel episodes about Felix and Lotus), but they're clearly struggling with the long game here.
I personally don't think this Volume is worse than 4 yet, but if things don't pick up soon it's going to be in that ballpark.
Honestly Prime of Perfection I'd suggest you just drop it. If you really don't have any faith in their storytelling abilities I don't see the point in trying to force yourself to keep watching, whatever charm you think the show had in the past.
So leave it alone for a bit, maybe come back a volume or two down the line, or maybe don't. And if after a couple of volumes have past you don't find yourself terribly curious that probably means dropping it was for the best.
edited 29th Nov '17 5:20:11 PM by LSBK
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Revelation and the Freelancer Saga are noteworthy parts in Red Vs Blue as well.
Apart from a clear lack of focus, I didn't really see much wrong with V4.It felt nice, at least to me, as an in-between season to set up the Mistral arc, like V1 did for Vale. It's that this lack of focus carried over to V5, along with several other new and old issues, that's been bringing this volume down big time, in my opinion.
edited 29th Nov '17 5:07:22 PM by TheLovecraftian

I'm not saying it's bad, by no means. Like I said, I love Yang's recent fight and Qrow's fight last volume, but things have come down in quality a few notches. Red Vs Blue has been hit with that a lot as well, but RWBY was Monty's child, so it's way more glaring here. RT has their own style of animation, and it's quite a nice one. They're suffering from having to be compared to Monty in this case.
edited 28th Nov '17 1:26:55 PM by TheLovecraftian