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Why would it affect the story negatively? Ozpin does nothing in this season except reveal that he's still around. Which is what the stinger does.
You could argue of course that we'd miss out on Oscar's character building, to which I will argue that his characterization does not delve deep enough into the Call to Adventure and body sharing and whatnot to be actually engaging. It's just there.
EDIT:
But we're not removing characterization, merely postponing it. The stinger would be his introduction. I'm actually thinking of expanding the stinger instead, with Oscar walking around in Mistral, talking to an unheard voice in his head before he finally finds Qrow.
As I understand it, you're fine with Oscar's characterization as it is now, which is alright, he did get it. I just think it's mediocre.
edited 13th Feb '17 10:27:51 PM by fillerdude
I don't know if you actually meant that to be to me or the post above but I'll answer. Oscar is a vehicle for Ozpin right now, that's true, but if he stays that with nothing else to him, that means the entire plot point is pointless and they would have been better off just having Ozpin escape Cinder somehow.
I think they have something much more interesting in mind than that, but for it to work, Oscar needs to actually be a character and not just a plot device.
So this thread is moving around quick lately, so apologies if I miss your post. Right now I'm replying to fillerdude's page topper ![]()
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(and in the time it took me to write the next line you had already posted again)
Ozpin does more than reveal he's still around, he reveals that he was once in Oscar's position, that he knows Hazel well enough to know he's a threat, and that their memories are now linked and shared). Even just cutting to him in Haven talking to people and a voice in his head wouldn't make up for that loss, and for putting all that stuff into the next season I would counter with why put it into volume 5 and not 4? If you think he didn't get enough characterisation this volume then how is putting everything he got this volume into the next one going to be better than them building off what they've established already and giving him more in 5?
That's going into more problems, actually. How convenient it was, for example, that Hazel was passing by at the same time Oscar was going to Haven.
I would only suggest moving the stuff into season 5 under the assumption that Oscar is introduced only in the stinger.
Operating under the assumption that Oscar retains his screentime for this volume, then obviously we wouldn't want to shove his characterization into volume 5. My issue with Oscar's characterization is that it's been mediocre. For example, if we actually had a shot of him enjoying dinner with his aunt and family, that would already add a lot of weight to his decision to leave the farm.
edited 13th Feb '17 10:48:57 PM by fillerdude
Oscar honestly needed a full episode dedicated to explaining his deal, which Volume 4 couldn't provide with its pacing and juggling of a half dozen plot threads. Having him only appear as The Stinger would mean that they could have done a Whole Episode Flashback later on, which could have been used to better convey his reluctance and eventual acceptance.
edited 14th Feb '17 12:17:36 AM by Karxrida
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That is a good way to do it. The only problem I see with it is that the other stories aren't structured for single episodes, so it would be kind of weird to plop in a new character for a whole episode.
The sad reality is that for all our criticisms, we also have no idea of the budget, recording and other production issues the RT had to struggle with.
It seems like CRWBY are trying to use plot devices and other such things to drive the plot that work in series that have longer episodes and seasons, which, if you haven't noticed, RWBY does not have. If RWBY became a traditional, 25 episode/season show with 20 minute episodes, we might not have alot of the problems that we currently have, with pacing and such.
bro im literally a girlThe major difference of opinion on this season seems to come down to whether or not you thought the character development was well executed or not. One side thinks that it was good, so getting rid of stuff would be a loss. The other side thinks that it was bad, so getting rid of it removes nothing of value and frees up time for better stuff instead.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.I don’t necessarily think the characterization was good in this volume; rather, I think it was necessary. And overall I enjoyed the volume even though I think it could be improved in many ways.
Ps. I think the comment “they’re using tropes typically used in longer media” hits the nail on the head.
"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." TwitterI disagree on two fronts: how much of Oscar we've needed to see, and the point of The Stinger - like the Volume 3 stinger, the Volume 4 stinger is a reveal about Qrow.
What little we've been told about Soul/Aura merging in the first three volumes tells us that there is a strong risk that a personality will never be the same again. We don't know what that means, but the Ozpin/Oscar merge is the first real example we're being allowed to see. We know a little bit about what Ozpin's personality is - we've had three volumes of him. We need at least some idea of Oscar's personality. At the moment, the indication is that Ozpin and Oscar's personalities are separate. We don't know what's going to happen, we only know that there's a risk of a personality change.
Frankly, I'd have preferred it if there had been some way to introduce Oscar much earlier, say back in Volume 1 or 2. He could have been used as a way of showing the world outside the kingdoms while the kids are still based inside the kingdoms. He could even have been used in Volume 3 to show the reach and scope of the Tournament, and how people in the rest of the world are witnessing and reacting to it. He could also have been our route into how the world is witnessing the invasion of Vale before the tower goes down. In fact, witnessing the collapse of communication at the moment the tower goes down could have been rather interesting to see.
He could have played that role - and been viewed by the audience as the 'audience in' to the world outside the kingdoms (just as Jaune was the 'audience in' to the life of the trainee huntsmen) - until it was time for the merge to reveal Oscar has a more significant role in the plot.
It could have helped us establish Oscar's personality well in advance of the merge, instead of introducing us to Oscar after the merge and getting to know his personality while he's panicking over why on earth he's hearing voices inside his head.
I think it's been very important for us to see Oscar throughout this volume (like I said, I think he needed to have been introduced even earlier). I think the Oscar scenes have given us some important information and questions about Ozpin, and Oscar's clearly going to be the exploration of Ozpin's identity, purpose and abilities while Ozpin is in a 'de-powered' state.
I've always felt that Ruby's going to be the Take a Third Option solution to whatever Ozpin's been involved in for so long, but I now suspect that Oscar is going to be part of that third option as well. Every new Maiden expresses her Season in a different way to previous Maidens. I suspect that'll be true for whatever it is that Ozpin (and now Oscar) is, too.
The Stinger was not about Oscar/Ozpin. It's another Qrow stinger. The Stinger is supposed to be a reveal about Qrow, which is why it ends on Oscar's expression as he looks at Qrow.
The kids have had their faith shaken by what Qrow told them, the question of trust cropped up. Even Ruby questioned Qrow in terms of trust. Qrow's "I don't know" story to RNJR may have been a red flag to the audience (ie, he's not telling the truth to the kids - at least, I didn't trust it, anyway), but it was supposed to throw off the kids.
It's a message to the kids that he's lost without Ozpin and thinks they all need Leo's help. But The Stinger confirms that Qrow isn't being truthful to RNJR. Whether or not he genuinely wants advice from Leo, Qrow is clearly not in Haven primarily to meet Leo. He's there based on a pre-arranged plan with Ozpin to carry Ozpin's cane to Haven, which is why he took the cane there and which is why Ozpin pestered Oscar into going there.
Now, while we know from the Volume 3 stinger that Qrow carried Ozpin's cane with him when he started following RNJR, we don't know for absolute certain until the Volume 4 stinger that Ozpin was planning on meeting Qrow in Haven (after all, Oscar wandering into a bar to speak a pre-arranged line to Qrow is about searching the most likely location Qrow is going to be in... not the most likely location for the kid to locate the Haven headmaster in).
The Stinger ends on Oscar's expression. The shock at the cane, then he lifts his head to stare at Qrow, and his expression changes again. He's still shocked, but it's like there's a dawning realisation in his face, too. Meanwhile, the surprise Qrow expressed in Oscar is minimal. His surprise, realisation and acceptance occur extremely fast and in a very downplayed manner — it isn't the point of the scene. The point, in fact, is that Qrow completely understands the situation and that Ozpin had a pre-arranged line that Qrow would recognise.
That leads me to interpret Oscar's expression at the end as the realisation that he's just had the first sign that what's happening to him isn't crazy, that it's really true. He's surprised by how easily the stranger before him has accepted Oscar's comment, that this stranger has addressed 'Oz' directly, and that everything just seems to click into place in terms of the cane. This moment must be utterly surreal for Oscar. If he was confused before, he's likely to be even more so now. Worse, for Oscar, is the big red warning flag that The Stinger gives us (and this I think is the most significant point of The Stinger). As soon as Qrow realises Oscar is connected to Ozpin, the person he addresses is Ozpin. In fact, it's like Oscar doesn't even exist in that moment. For that moment at least, Qrow sees and responds to Ozpin.
That's a sign of the pressure that is going to hit Oscar, very soon and very fast: the people who know Ozpin, who either understand (or will come to understand very quickly) whatever it is Ozpin is and does (in terms of this Body Surf), is that Ozpin represents a source of wisdom, guidance and leadership for his conspiracy group. The volume has given us a strongly implied indication that the adults feel leaderless without Ozpin (something Qrow deliberately plays on when giving his information to RNJR). Oscar represents a renewed hope of direction for them that Oscar himself won't yet understand.
The point of The Stinger is Qrow's reaction to Oscar... and the potential problem for Oscar the consequences of that reaction may be. And we know, from having witnessed Oscar throughout Volume 4, just how completely unprepared - and even vulnerable - he is to the kind of pressure Qrow's reaction to him (as Ozpin) is probably about to dump on his young shoulders.
That is what The Stinger means to me: Oscar's in trouble; and part of his problem will be Qrow.
edited 14th Feb '17 11:12:09 AM by Wyldchyld
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.I'm fairly certain Qrow's "I don't really know" was supposed to be genuine. Like, yeah, he obviously didn't tell them everything he knew, but that was conveyed by him looking at that raven(?) and saying "not tonight" when they asked if he had anything else to say.
So, yeah, he didn't tell them everything, and he more or less admitted as much. And I can totally see meeting "Ozpin" at Haven being a thing should a situation arise, but, I doubt they know what Leo's up to. Though, I wouldn't be surprised if they suspected something.
Which reminds me, Ozpin knows Hazel, but does that mean he knows Watts? I'm going to say no, because I get the impression he's going to be sticking around the school (maybe as a guest professor from somewhere else) and that would fall a part pretty quickly otherwise. But, I could be wrong.
-nod-
Please stop using that.
The pun. It's... it's so awful.
edited 14th Feb '17 11:37:14 AM by Soble
I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!Oscar show some thing: it show ozpin cant chose who will be the next body and that he is not happy about this meaning he lost to cinder somehowand that he know hazel for some reason with ties to is shady past(maybe a deflector from the brotherhood?) and give enought to oscar to be a chararter
For me this season dosent improbe by cutting but by better showing, weiss arc in particular stand out because it dosent really go more than "she stay there being moping until is dad make is best hank pym impertionation and the leave".....that it, is cliche and very predictable which sound bad.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

I still find the implication that they shouldn't try and make himself we care about in his own right, with that actually being better for the story very hard to understand.