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Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#44751: Jan 29th 2017 at 3:14:55 PM

Now we wait for the last episode. Hopefully, it is a long one.

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
Darthwyn leader of Inherit from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
leader of Inherit
#44752: Jan 29th 2017 at 3:17:49 PM

While it has a large kill count has it been confirmed to have killed anything above village soldier because if it does fall it here to teamwork or the timely arrival of Raven it would echo back to what Ren's father said about the village needing a huntsman to fight that creature.

Overall the grim are definitely a threat we just happen to see the people trained to fight these things. Only recently have we seen the grim that students can't handle alone without backup.

Wounded huntsman was able to survive a bandit attack and kill the grim that arrived afterwards so we have plenty of evidence that huntsman are a step above the average person in terms of combat ability.

"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - Dorthy
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#44753: Jan 29th 2017 at 4:09:48 PM

@Ferard: Ren was able to sense Tyrian coming from quite a while off; aura supposedly gives heightened senses, and that's most visible with Ren, so I think he merely was able to sense it while the others could not.

FergardStratoavis A Fluff Ringer from Bellveins (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
A Fluff Ringer
#44754: Jan 29th 2017 at 4:12:47 PM

Thing is, there is nowhere for Nuck to hide in there. They're standing in the open, it can be heard getting closer and Ren's panicked expression (complete with a close-up of both its heads) indicates that he's looking straight at it.

It's not behind them, else he would turn around. He's looking past Lancaster and Qrow, straight ahead... but there isn't a thing there.

edited 29th Jan '17 4:13:09 PM by FergardStratoavis

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#44755: Jan 29th 2017 at 4:28:36 PM

[up] It could be behind a building or something.

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#44756: Jan 29th 2017 at 5:08:56 PM

Or it could be behind us....

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#44757: Jan 29th 2017 at 5:59:09 PM

It's hiding in a plot hole.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#44758: Jan 29th 2017 at 6:03:17 PM

It's obviously just for dramatic flair. Calling it a plot hole makes it sound more important than it actually is, but at the same time I doubt there's actually going to be any more to it.

What's more important and annoying is how people either get to places as quickly or slowly as the plot demands with no proper justification.

xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#44759: Jan 29th 2017 at 6:05:05 PM

My theory right now is that Oscar meets up with everyone in Haven, and gets Ruby's spot on Team RNJR, and then Team RNJR will be renamed team ORNJ.

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#44760: Jan 29th 2017 at 6:22:23 PM

I doubt that. Oscar isn't a huntsman and has no relation to JNR. Putting him on the team would get him killed.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#44761: Jan 29th 2017 at 6:27:00 PM

At least until he learns how to use the powers that must have come with this.

xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#44762: Jan 29th 2017 at 6:39:42 PM

[up][up]Yeah, but he has a great huntsman's soul combined with his, and he's gradually discovering Ozpin's memories. I don't think it will happen right away. Probably sometime in the middle of next season. But I don't think it's strange to think the "greatness" Ozpin told him he had an opportunity for is probably going to involve fighting alongside huntsmen at some point.

edited 29th Jan '17 6:52:04 PM by xanderiskander

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#44763: Jan 29th 2017 at 6:48:33 PM

So I guess there's on episode left huh.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#44764: Jan 29th 2017 at 8:37:34 PM

Not much to say about this episode that hasn't already been said.

Plot is finally moving, but the only thread that seemed like it was an entire season's worth of material was Blake's.

Tyrian's return to Cinder was confusing both in terms of travel timenote  and his motivation for returning. He knew that Cinder was going to be pissed at him for not completing his assignment, so why return at all? He knew that he'd poisoned Crow, so all he had to do was stay in hiding for a few days and then attack RNJR and an incapacitated Crow and problem solved.

I think they're hitting Cinder a little too hard with Badass Decay. At the end of season 3, she orchestrated the Fall of Beacon, gained the Fall Maiden's full powers, and decisively defeated several of the series' most powerful characters one after the other. The beginning of season 4 revealed that she'd been maimed by Ruby's powers (which was a great twist, because it pulled her back from becoming a Villain Sue), and has done nothing but get yelled at by Salem since. The fact that she was shocked and apparently appalled by Tyrian being a psychotic freak was going too far, in my opinion. This is the woman who wants to burn down human civilization. One nutjob going a little crazy on a grimm really shouldn't phase her.

Blake don't get no respect. Sun eavesdrops on her with her father; her parents eavesdrop on her with Sun. Blake's existence is suffering confirmed. Sun's speech at Blake was good, but seemed to miss the fact that responsibility goes two ways. If Blake's friends are allowed to protect her without her permission, then she's allowed to protect them (by running away) without their permission. The taking over White Fang thing is interesting and I think it's a great idea in terms of plot development, but I'm not sure I trust them to do it properly. Sun and Blake taking White Fang back from the extremist wing and turning it into a force for good again is awesome, but it's also a full-time job. They can't just punch Adam, declare themselves leaders, and then go back to having adventures with Team RWBY. I wouldn't mind seeing Blake and Sun off on their own plot thread doing White Fang things from here on out, but I don't really trust the show to actually let them do that.

Boss grimm is underwhelming me. Maybe if they'd built it up earlier, had it stalking RNJR or shown that it had been razing villages recently or something. That it's apparently just been hanging around for ten years in order to provide Ren with some character development when he encountered it again seems meh.

Speaking of Ren, the whole "splitting the team up" thing seems to have gone nowhere, which is a pity. That actually could have led to some interesting things. Instead they just dropped it.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#44765: Jan 29th 2017 at 8:48:07 PM

The fact that she was shocked and apparently appalled by Tyrian being a psychotic freak was going too far, in my opinion. This is the woman who wants to burn down human civilization. One nutjob going a little crazy on a grimm really shouldn't phase her.
I interpreted this more as Cinder realizing what being in fear and service to Salem will do to you.

Sun and Blake taking White Fang back from the extremist wing and turning it into a force for good again is awesome, but it's also a full-time job. They can't just punch Adam, declare themselves leaders, and then go back to having adventures with Team RWBY.
Maybe Ghira will become the leader again. That would be the easiest way to solve that.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#44766: Jan 29th 2017 at 8:49:59 PM

The fact that she was shocked and apparently appalled by Tyrian being a psychotic freak was going too far, in my opinion. This is the woman who wants to burn down human civilization. One nutjob going a little crazy on a grimm really shouldn't phase her.

I didn't like that either. It seemed like set-up for a softening of her villainy.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#44767: Jan 29th 2017 at 9:06:44 PM

Everything we've seen of Cinder has served to soften her. Though, I do agree the thing with Tyrian isn't a good way to do it.

Also, Jovian, I think you might be giving Cinder a bit too much credit. Really, all she was doing was following Salem's plan. Gladly, mind you, but she's never been the mastermind, which is why something like her turning is even palatable in the first place.

Also, Sun did acknowledge that protection is a two way street: he said she's free to do what she wants and they're free to do what they want. If the two conflict then it just becomes a battle of wills.

edited 29th Jan '17 9:14:23 PM by LSBK

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#44768: Jan 29th 2017 at 9:28:32 PM

@ Xander:

Yeah, but he has a great huntsman's soul combined with his, and he's gradually discovering Ozpin's memories. I don't think it will happen right away. Probably sometime in the middle of next season. But I don't think it's strange to think the "greatness" Ozpin told him he had an opportunity for is probably going to involve fighting alongside huntsmen at some point.

Memories are one thing, but that doesn't substitute for actual training and building up muscle memory. It'd also be strange for the "greatness" Oz was talking about to be something as petty as fighting seeing as he was the biggest advocate for not rushing in and taking things out with force and only ever got involved physically when everything had hit the fan. He doesn't strike me as the "being a huntsman is the only way to be great" sort.

But mostly I can't see him joining JNR as Oscar means nothing to any of them and Jaune definitely has an issue with Ozpin over Phyrra's death, and most certainly not seeing them putting an untrained, untested, and complete stranger in charge of their family unit.

@ Native Jovian

Tyrian's return to Cinder was confusing both in terms of travel time and his motivation for returning. He knew that Cinder was going to be pissed at him for not completing his assignment, so why return at all? He knew that he'd poisoned Crow, so all he had to do was stay in hiding for a few days and then attack RNJR and an incapacitated Crow and problem solved.

I'm assuming you mean Salem and not Cinder. I take his return and behaviour as him being traumatised by losing a limb. Without his stinger he might not feel confident enough to take on RNJR, plus it seemed like he was in constant pain with the way he was walking to Salem. No matter how badass a huntsman he the amount of pain that you'd be in after just suffering an amputation would take it's toll on you.

As for the travel times, I'm banking on them having fixed portals for easy transportation or that Salem's castle is on or near Anima. We've only ever speculated it's on the top of the dragon continent, but three of the four members of Team WTCH have been spotted or were going to Mistral at the start of the season, perhaps they are closer to the heroes then we think.

I think they're hitting Cinder a little too hard with Badass Decay. At the end of season 3, she orchestrated the Fall of Beacon, gained the Fall Maiden's full powers, and decisively defeated several of the series' most powerful characters one after the other. The beginning of season 4 revealed that she'd been maimed by Ruby's powers (which was a great twist, because it pulled her back from becoming a Villain Sue), and has done nothing but get yelled at by Salem since.

Given the state of her injuries (missing an eye, her voice all but gone and implied heavy injuries to her left arm and potentially entire left side) I wouldn't agree considering that she still won against five Grimm in a weakened condition. Plus all of her fights before she got the full maiden powers relied on guile, misdirection and retreating (she beat Amber with a three-on-one advantage, Emerald's mind tricks and shooting Amber while her back was turned, then ran away once Qrow popped up, her two fights against Ruby ended with her retreating - albeit in neither case did she have anything to gain from staying and fighting - and weren't particularly dominating) while her two fights afterwards were very hard fought affairs (all we saw of the Ozpin fight saw her failing to land a single blow and getting curb stomped by him, while her fight with Pyhrra was definitively in her favour but did require her full attention and she still needed the Grimm Dragon to bail her out).

The fact that she was shocked and apparently appalled by Tyrian being a psychotic freak was going too far, in my opinion. This is the woman who wants to burn down human civilization. One nutjob going a little crazy on a grimm really shouldn't phase her.

We don't know what Cinder's (or Salem's) end goals are, how much of human civilization gets burned down is up in the air. I'll make the comparison to Lex Luthor and the Joker. Lex is fully prepared to do some pretty evil stuff, but the Joker is just pure insanity and violence wrapped in a clown-shaped package. No matter how evil Lex is he's still going to be unnerved by Joker's insanity.

Sun's speech at Blake was good, but seemed to miss the fact that responsibility goes two ways. If Blake's friends are allowed to protect her without her permission, then she's allowed to protect them (by running away) without their permission.

I also don't agree (shocking I know). It wasn't a speech about responsibility, it was Sun saying that Blake could make her own choices, but she didn't have the right to make her friend's choices for them. She can run away, but she can't stop her friends from following, and she doesn't get to take away from their choices if they get hurt.

Boss grimm is underwhelming me. Maybe if they'd built it up earlier, had it stalking RNJR or shown that it had been razing villages recently or something. That it's apparently just been hanging around for ten years in order to provide Ren with some character development when he encountered it again seems meh.

I would like to see a Grimm intelligent and malicious enough to hunt down a survivor from a village it had slaughtered, that'd be cool. I'm hoping that this Grimm at one point in the fight turns and stares right at Ren as if it recognises him, and singles him out of the group.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#44769: Jan 29th 2017 at 11:29:30 PM

"It's come to my attention we have one episode left and despite being in the opening Adam hasn't actually appeared once. ...Perhaps that'll change next episode. "

he better cut something ifthat true, the edge should never go dulltongue

"Adam is still working towards Salem's goal, but he plans on betraying Sienna Khan, but Salem sent Hazel to make sure things were good with Sienna Khan. Did we miss something here or is Adam just trying to do his own thing while also keeping in line with Salem's plans?"

She send Hazel who is one of the biggest chararter so far(really, that guy is huge) to compell her into their aliance, so probably Adam know that and is wating Hazel to finish her and take the WF.

"The beginning of season 4 revealed that she'd been maimed by Ruby's powers (which was a great twist, because it pulled her back from becoming a Villain Sue), and has done nothing but get yelled at by Salem since."

the yelling is to give her devolpment, cinder want power and to be fear and hear, now she got that and not in the way she wanted.

" No matter how evil Lex is he's still going to be unnerved by Joker's insanity."

Also, is clear Cinder dosent mantain much contact with the rest of the team, they are like Ozpin team(which is deliberate, they seen to mirror Ozpin team) Tyrian being so ball up insane could faze her for a moment

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
doineedaname from Eastern US Since: Nov, 2010
#44770: Jan 30th 2017 at 6:07:45 AM

If Blake's friends are allowed to protect her without her permission, then she's allowed to protect them (by running away) without their permission.

Blake's plan for protecting them is pretty much pointless unless Adam is totally unwilling to hurt them without her seeing it happen and doesn't consider just recording to show her him hurting or killing them good enough. Or has no interest in taking them prisoner to try and blackmail Blake. She's not doing anything to keep him from finding out about them as there's no reason for him to not know who they are already since their team was broadcast across the world during the tournament so not being there isn't going to stop him from finding out about them. He's already seen Yang and knows he can hurt her through her, the White Fang already targets the Schness so he has no reason not to target Weiss to begin with.

And in Ruby's case her plan is actively making her ability to protect her worse since by running away since she doesn't know she's going after Cinder who Adam is working with so he has no reason not to target her the second she gets close to interfering with their plan unless ordered off.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#44771: Jan 30th 2017 at 8:12:54 AM

Adam doesn't exactly have a list of People Who Blake Loves (tm). He seems to be going off a list of "kill anyone who knows Blake on a first-name basis."

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#44772: Jan 30th 2017 at 8:32:23 AM

Oh yeah, Blake's bit. I couldn't sympathize with her at all since I've heard that argument a hundred times in superhero stories and it always ends the exact same way. Especially since it's always rather stupid. I understand the logic behind the desire but the methodology always leaves little to be desired.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#44773: Jan 30th 2017 at 8:43:27 AM

[up][up][up]well, he only need to hear about white fang member who saw her and her friend: a red scythe child, a schnee(that should piss him the most), that girl who he maimed and that other monkey faunus.

[up]is stupid here because at least super have secret identity, Blake dont and Adam already know her so she is just running away....again.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#44774: Jan 30th 2017 at 8:47:48 AM

Lex is fully prepared to do some pretty evil stuff, but the Joker is just pure insanity and violence wrapped in a clown-shaped package. No matter how evil Lex is he's still going to be unnerved by Joker's insanity.

No he's not. Lex regularly incorporates the Joker's madness into his schemes and subordinates the clown's agenda to his own. In his own words, he regards Joker as "sick in the head but fascinating company", and no matter how many times they fall out over ideology, they always end up working together again. Inasmuch as either one of them is capable of caring about anybody else, they are friends, and despite the obvious Lawful Evil/Chaotic Evil divide are one another's go-to partners for a Villain Team-Up.

I'm more or less with Jovian on the subject of Cinder. While I'm not opposed to the idea of her realizing she's in over her head and turning around, it's happening far too quickly. You'd expect one of her henchmen to turn first, and yet the story seems to have all but forgotten them.

Boss grimm is underwhelming me. Maybe if they'd built it up earlier, had it stalking RNJR or shown that it had been razing villages recently or something. That it's apparently just been hanging around for ten years in order to provide Ren with some character development when he encountered it again seems meh.

Speaking of Ren, the whole "splitting the team up" thing seems to have gone nowhere, which is a pity. That actually could have led to some interesting things. Instead they just dropped it.

I'm going to echo this. If the nuckleave thing had been introduced back in Episode 1 and stalked them all season I'd be a lot more hyped for this confrontation. As it is, it feels pretty flat. The opening episodes built up Salem and her goon squad as the main threat of the season and now they too have been sidelined in the name of a non-character as the Final Boss.

And what was the point of splitting up the teams if they were going to reunite almost immediately?

edited 30th Jan '17 8:52:51 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#44775: Jan 30th 2017 at 9:01:28 AM

I interpreted this more as Cinder realizing what being in fear and service to Salem will do to you.
Tyrian is the only one of Salem's inner circle that seems that way. I'd definitely chalk it up less to "service to Salem makes you crazy" and more "Tyrian is crazy, and his craziness means literally worshiping Salem". From what we've seen of Cinder so far, I'd expect to see her showing disgust at his weakness, not alarm at his madness.

Maybe Ghira will become the leader again.
That's possible, but not as interesting as Blake taking the reins. Like I said, I think the "Blake's White Fang politics" story arc has a lot of potential, but I'm not convinced that the show will actually let it play out instead of "Team RWBY's fabulous adventures". Blake punching Adam and then shoving her dad back in the top spot would enable the latter but not be as interesting as the former.

Also, Jovian, I think you might be giving Cinder a bit too much credit. Really, all she was doing was following Salem's plan.
And she's shown absolutely no remorse that said plan involves subverting what seems to be the natural order of Remnant, murdering countless innocent people, and destroying entire civilizations. Her plan was to wipe Vale off the map, and she went about it with gusto — it was only Ruby's silver-eye shenanigans that kept her from total victory, and she's never expressed any hint of having a problem with any of that.

Except Tyrian being crazy apparently freaks her out? It's weird, and doesn't follow very well with what we've seen of the character so far.

I take his return and behaviour as him being traumatised by losing a limb
I can buy that as the reason for his initial retreat, but his attitude when he actually approaches Salem is "did I do good?" not "oh god my tail please help". If he'd approached her looking for crazy darkness powers replacement for his stinger so he could go back and finish the job, I could see that. But instead it seemed like he knew he'd screwed up but he didn't go back and fix his screw up for... reasons.

Given the state of her injuries (missing an eye, her voice all but gone and implied heavy injuries to her left arm and potentially entire left side) I wouldn't agree considering that she still won against five Grimm in a weakened condition.
I didn't mean Badass Decay in the sense of power level weakening, I meant in the sense of her villainy being stripped back. She's gone from a powerful, ruthless, and remorseless villain to being yelled at by Salem and aghast at Tyrian's display of violence. She's seen (and done) worse before, having her flinch now seems like they're backtracking on the character, which I don't really like.

It wasn't a speech about responsibility, it was Sun saying that Blake could make her own choices, but she didn't have the right to make her friend's choices for them.
But the context of the conversation was Blake making choices to protect her friends, rather than letting them make choices to protect her. Sun basically said "you can only make choices for yourself, not for other people". Blake running away to protect her friends is a choice she made for herself, and so just as legitimate, by Sun's logic. But Sun doesn't seem to recognize that.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

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