TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

RWBY General Discussion

Go To

Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#44076: Jan 10th 2017 at 10:59:29 AM

Remember that time when there wasn't a prolonged argument about Sun and his moral status? That was fun.

EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#44077: Jan 10th 2017 at 11:01:25 AM

No it wasn't, because the argument at that time was if Jaune was literally the worst person alive.

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#44078: Jan 10th 2017 at 11:15:46 AM

On Ozpin letting himself get "killed", I can't see him doing that. It just doesn't line up with his desire to stop the immediate consequences at all costs, consequences which are still severe and plaguing the story even now.

Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#44079: Jan 10th 2017 at 11:26:54 AM

[up][up] Well, he did forge his transcripts to get into Beacon. Definitely criminal activity. What's Salem ever done that was so bad?. Jaune is the real Greater-Scope Villain. tongue

powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#44080: Jan 10th 2017 at 11:28:39 AM

I've said it before that Sun is well meaning, but he lacks tact.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#44081: Jan 10th 2017 at 12:01:13 PM

[up]pretty much and it not surprise, hell in season 2 he enter RWBY window and aparently listen their conversation, funny how people react now.

So....it is posible that the great war was excuse to find the relics?

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#44082: Jan 10th 2017 at 12:26:26 PM

On Ozpin letting himself get "killed", I can't see him doing that. It just doesn't line up with his desire to stop the immediate consequences at all costs, consequences which are still severe and plaguing the story even now.
Unfortunately, we have no idea what Ozpin's power set is (other than body surfing), and no real solid basis for speculation. He could be anything from "normal huntsman with the exception of the body surfing" to "physical god who let himself be killed as part of a Thanatos Gambit". We have no idea how he stacks up against a Maiden in terms of power level (though we've seen that Maiden powers, while potent, aren't an instant win button — clever and skilled mortals can absolutely defeat Maidens, though not easily). Adding to that is the fact that we don't know how Cinder stacks up against a normal Maiden (is she less powerful because she isn't a "real" Maiden? Is she more powerful because she has all the normal Maiden powers plus crazy Salem powers? Do the two cancel each other out so she's roughly the same power level but with a different power set?) and we really have no way to eliminate any of the major possibilities from "Ozpin fought Cinder all-out and died anyway" to "Ozpin could have one-shot Cinder without breaking a sweat but let himself be killed for reasons unknown".

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#44083: Jan 10th 2017 at 12:29:50 PM

I mean, what happens is deliberately ambiguous but his feelings on it don't seem to be. He was adamant that the Tower couldn't fall, and he's expressed disliking his current situation just as Oscar does.

The way things are, it just makes things easier for Salem. If he's playing a long gambit here it's pretty likely to be non-nonsensical unless they've really thought this out.

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#44084: Jan 10th 2017 at 1:45:36 PM

I'm looking at it from the point of view of "what would make it a better story", not "what would make fans happy".

So am I. That's why I think the writers are in a no-win scenario on this front. To skip or not to skip isn't a dilemma that automatically has a worse and better option when compared as options. It depends on what story you want to tell and how well you tell it. Sometimes, a concept can look bad but end up being told well. Sometimes a concept can be brilliant but end up being poorly executed.

Personally, given the story that's unfolding, I think the writers have made the correct decision. The problems with the storytelling show relate to how long they have to tell it, which is why we're getting snapshots of scenes instead of more in-depth, longer-lasting focus.

The idea that the girls are in different places and are moving at different speeds is not automatically the worse storytelling option. Because the story hasn't been told the other way, we will never know for certain which option would have been better - we can only speculate, with all of the pros and cons speculation brings with it.

My issues with the volume do not stem from the writers' decision to separate the girls and have them moving at different speeds. I don't think that's a bad decision. On the contrary, I think it's a good idea given the nature of the character personalities we're dealing with.

The problem is that this show clearly has detailed world building, character design and plot development, but is attempting to be told in an environment where it's effectively a side project of the main business. The project's scope and the available resources to work on it clearly are not well-matched. As far as I'm concerned, the problems would be the same even if the skip we're discussing had happened; they would simply have manifested in a different way.

Huh? I'm not seeing that at all. Raven seems to have some sort of Social Darwinist thing going on where she believes that only the strong deserve to survive and everyone else can go to hell. That's pretty toxic to a team mentality. Neither Blake nor Weiss have anything like that level of attitude problem.

I guess this means you're assuming I think Blake and Raven have the same personality and the same flaws. I don't.

I'm talking about a person who has the potential to split up a team because of what's going on in their personality and the life that builds up problems for a team until a breaking point is reached.

Both Blake and Weiss come from the kind of background that was going to build up to something nasty, and they both had the types of personality that - at the time - did not give them a very good ability to handle, or properly share, their issues.

They were not in a place that could have maintained a team for the long-term. And, yes, I do think their issues - and their personalities at this point in time - were a huge problem from the point-of-view of a team's long-term future. Fortunately for the team's long-term future, outside events are forcing these issues to be addressed sooner rather than later. Which means the long-term future of Team RWBY looks much better than the long-term future of Team STRQ apparently ended up being.

I mean, I agree that that's the theory, but it hasn't actually happened. Ruby's plot has been entirely about dealing with Salem's minions, not her personal issues. Blake's trying to deal with her personal issues but has mostly been sidetracked by White Fang shenanigans (though she gets points for actually having an emotional conversation with her dad, which is more than anyone else has managed in terms of character growth). Weiss's plot boils down to "Jacques is a dick" and Weiss hasn't done any growing or changing as a result. And Yang just went from Sad Yang back to Normal Yang without much else changing (though if we're lucky, her dad's talk about her semblance will bear some fruit in that regard... but I'm not holding my breath).

As I hope you noticed, my post did single out Ruby from the rest of the girls, so I won't address that again.

The White Fang is part of Blake's personal issues. That isn't a sidetrack. That's part of the problem that needs to be addressed. The same is true for Weiss.

And I really don't think Yang's issues have magically vanished just because she started training with the arm. She's trying to convince Taiyang it's okay for him to go after Ruby. That's the event that made her put on the arm in the first place - finding out that Tai had to choose which of his daughters to help because he wasn't in a position to be able to help both of them at the same time.

So, great, she's doing this for her family. That means she's ignoring the core problem she's got; she's not even close to fixed yet.

Yes, perhaps the writers are awful and decided to throw away the PTSD. If that turns out to be the case, I'll acknowledge it — right now, however, the show hasn't given me an indication of that. It's given me an indication that Yang is trying to put Ruby first and that's going to cause a big problem for her unresolved issues further down the road if she doesn't address it. It makes more sense to me for her ultimately to end up in Atlas first (with Ironwood and Weiss), rather than going to Mistral to find Ruby because Ironwood is the only protagonist in Yang's position, and apparently the comments that have been made in-universe about the cybernetic arm seem to be building up to something Ironwood/Yang related further down the road.

edited 10th Jan '17 2:00:32 PM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#44085: Jan 10th 2017 at 2:24:05 PM

I feel Tai would help her address her core issue.

But she's putting family over her issues.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#44086: Jan 10th 2017 at 3:33:21 PM

[up] We're talking about something like PTSD. He could be the most supportive father in the world, and still not be the right person to help her if he's a) never been through PTSD or b) isn't a psychiatrist trained to help PTSD sufferers.

And the stuff about Whitley being the only one interested in learning to run the company does make a lot more sense when they have things like him actually being interested in interacting with likely future business partners. Not really sure if the writers get that, though.

The two times they've shown Whitley become really intense in his responses to Weiss, something's gone slightly weird with his eyes and the camera angles on his face. He almost had Fish Eyes during the 'reveal' when he said it was better to do what father wanted. There was another odd angled close up of his face and eyes when he talked about huntsmen being beneath him and Jacques.

It's just a feeling I've been given by the animation, but I'm not convinced Whitley is sane. While Winter and Weiss rebelled, Whitley conformed - but at what cost? The way he talks about Jacques, makes me wonder if he's a broken spirit who became the perfect son to stave off abuse and thereby sacrificed his sanity in the process.

On Ozpin letting himself get "killed", I can't see him doing that. It just doesn't line up with his desire to stop the immediate consequences at all costs, consequences which are still severe and plaguing the story even now.

We don't know anything about Ozpin's end-goal and plans. We do know he's protecting the relics. We don't know why. We don't know his history with Salem. We don't know what his abilities are (that fight with Cinder was only a hint, not a true reveal). Most importantly, we don't know what his limits and weaknesses are.

One thing that surfing into Oscar does, however, is give him anonymity. For now.

I mean, what happens is deliberately ambiguous but his feelings on it don't seem to be. He was adamant that the Tower couldn't fall, and he's expressed disliking his current situation just as Oscar does.

Yes, it's very ambiguous, and it could anything from Cinder genuinely defeating him to him being forced to enact this body surf plan - not because of Cinder, but because of something; if so, his comment to Oscar about being no more happy with the situation than Oscar is, may reflect that Ozpin's triggered a fall-black plan he didn't want to use, and not that he was killed by someone who had the power to defeat him.

The only sign we have is that Salem seems to think that 'Cinder killing Ozpin = Ozpin planned something'. For all we know, she could have jumped to the wrong conclusion. I'm going with it not being the wrong conclusion, but it's still something Ozpin was hoping he wouldn't have to do.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#44087: Jan 10th 2017 at 4:35:13 PM

@AJS The End

I brought it up, and I didn't say sociopath

You didn't say it. Sereg did. Multiple times now in both this thread and others. Which is entirely typical for Sereg and entirely atypical for the rest of us in the thread and the rest of the conversation.

I'd respond in detail to the rest of what you've said, but the rest of the thread is mostly moving on, so I'll keep it short—whatever motivations the writers intended to give Sun, the way they went about it, the dialogue and stylistic choices they made during Episode 3, and the humour they've attempted to continue doing with him since, have all combined to make it possible to interpret his actions in the worst possible light. I don't disagree with you about what the writers were trying to convey, but I don't think they did it well, and that's the whole problem.

@Black Yakuzu 94

The reason I made those jabs is because I felt like the criticisms of Sun was getting less coherent and more petty; " Oh I'm glad he got stabbed, because fuck him" "why did he have to save Blake again, ugh"

Except I didn't say that first part. I said "Sun may be out of action for a bit". I didn't celebrate him getting hurt, I expressed hope he would bow out of the plot for a while.

I'm going to expand on this point actually, because it's worth making clear—I don't hate Sun. I still have decent, if not overly fond memories of his role in Seasons 1-3. I hate how he's being used this season. I hate how the writers have used him as a vessel for not only bad comedy, but for some genuinely problematic romantic tropes. I hate how they've done nothing to dial back on that, and have in fact made some writing decisions, such as the whole eavesdropping/interruption scene, that have only reinforced the issues, rather than alleviating them.

As such I am convinced that the best thing that can happen to Sun, for the sake of not only the story, but the sake of Sun himself, is for him to be removed from the ongoing plotline until such time as the writers can figure out what in the heck they want to do with him.

I could at least take it if you could at least acknowledge you're being petty instead of trying to justify it.

I really fail to see how thinking a character is being handled badly, continues to be handled badly, and should thus take a good long hiatus from the story until such time as he is no longer handled badly is, in your words, "being petty".

@Sereg

MOD EDIT: Removed for making it personal. '

@Wyldchyld

We're talking about something like PTSD. He could be the most supportive father in the world, and still not be the right person to help her if he's a) never been through PTSD or b) isn't a psychiatrist trained to help PTSD sufferers.

This so very much. Fiction often creates this notion that PTSD is easy to get over, or just requires enough willpower and that isn't the case. It takes a long time and a lot of effort to cope with the damage, and frequently, there is no full recovery. It's taken my fiancee years to recover from her car crash. My grandfather never got over his WWII service. I'm sure there are others in the thread who have similar stories they could share. Accordingly, I hope the series handles Yang's issues with at least a fraction of the gravity that they deserve.

It's just a feeling I've been given by the animation, but I'm not convinced Whitley is sane. While Winter and Weiss rebelled, Whitley conformed - but at what cost? The way he talks about Jacques, makes me wonder if he's a broken spirit who became the perfect son to stave off abuse and thereby sacrificed his sanity in the process.

Whitley's whole persona is just "off". Has been from his first appearance. I don't know if it's actually going anywhere, but between some of his physical quirks and his voice he presents as fairly damaged.

One thing that surfing into Oscar does, however, is give him anonymity. For now.

I'm honestly not sure what I think of that whole business.

@Native Jovian

You are not alone in thinking that any number of the characters' plotlines could have started midseason. My fiancee and I were just discussing this the other day with one of her friends. A while back another troper and I—I think it was Very Melon—were talking about how Ruby's own plot could have opened with Tyrian's attack.

edited 10th Jan '17 7:12:22 PM by nombretomado

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#44088: Jan 10th 2017 at 4:37:50 PM

I can agree with that last paragraph.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#44089: Jan 10th 2017 at 4:43:41 PM

[up]I think that opening with Blake arriving in Menagerie (with or without Sun), Ruby and her crew getting ambushed by Tyrian, Yang training with her father, and Weiss plotting her escape might have been the best way to go. As is I keep feeling that I'm watching the stuff that was supposed to happen offscreen during the time skip.

Anyone want to place odds on the team being reassembled by the finale? I'm not thinking they're good.

edited 10th Jan '17 4:48:56 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#44090: Jan 10th 2017 at 4:49:59 PM

[up]Well, Tai did have depression after Summer died and Raven left.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#44091: Jan 10th 2017 at 5:21:51 PM

So am I. That's why I think the writers are in a no-win scenario on this front. To skip or not to skip isn't a dilemma that automatically has a worse and better option when compared as options.
Which is why I didn't say that "they should have skipped it", I said "they should have either skipped it or done a better job of showing it". Either would be fine, but what we got was the worst of both worlds — they used up a lot of screen time for not much payoff in return. There are things they could have done with Yang and Weiss's plots that would have made the time spent on them worth it, but they didn't do any of those things, which is why I'm saying skipping it would have been better than what we got.

I've been presenting two possibilities from the beginning: do it well, or skip it. I'd be fine with either option. But instead, they wasted their screentime by doing it poorly, which is my complaint.

The White Fang is part of Blake's personal issues. That isn't a sidetrack. That's part of the problem that needs to be addressed. The same is true for Weiss.
I disagree. Blake's personal issues stem from the fact that she's done a lot of stuff she isn't proud of and then ran away from her problems rather than trying to address the wrongs she'd been part of. She went back to her family in order to get her head on straight and decide what she wants to do with herself. Go back and do what she can to fix the mistakes of her past? Leave the past behind and forge ahead in a new direction, living life as a huntress instead of focusing on her personal vendetta with the White Fang? Just say "screw it" and live a quiet life at home with her family in Menagerie? She has some major decisions to make, but every time she starts to do some soul searching, she gets interrupted by an action scene. That's what I mean by "sidetracked".

Weiss has much the same problem, only moreso. Blake is at least comfortable with her identity; she knows who she is, even if she doesn't know what she wants to do. Weiss hasn't made up her mind whether she wants to be the heiress of the Schnee Dust Company, a classically-trained huntress (as opposed to Atlas Academy's more military take on things), a member of the Atlas military like her big sis, or what, exactly. Worse, it doesn't even seem to have occurred to her that she needs to choose. She's angry at her father for pulling her out of Vale after the fall of Beacon, but she's also angry at her father for making Whitley the heir instead of her, but she also refused Ironwood's invitation to Atlas Academy, so not only does she not seem to know what she wants to do with herself, she (unlike Blake) doesn't even know that she's facing a choice.

Jacques being antagonistic toward her is a sidetrack to this whole building conflict because it's basically making the choice for her. Since she's now confined to the family estate, she couldn't run off to Atlas Academy even if she wanted to. Since Whitley was made heir instead of her, she can no longer inherit the SDC even if that's what she wanted. Literally her only option left is to stay at home and do Beacon-style huntress training. So I guess "sidetrack" isn't really the right term for it, but the shenanigans with Jacques is sucking all the air out of her personal development. There's not much drama in trying to decide between several equally-attractive options when all but one of the options are eliminated by outside influences.

And of course, Yang's problem is that she's not facing any difficult choices. Her choice is "recover" or "don't", which is the opposite of interesting. (Did anyone actually think she was going to refuse to return to action?) Don't get me wrong — they certainly could have made it an interesting choice by having Yang turn introspective and wonder whether she really actually wants to be a huntress or not. All the others have compelling reasons to. Ruby hero-worships huntsmen in general (and Crow specifically), and wants to be like them when she grows up. Weiss is determined to prove that she's powerful and capable as an individual, not just as the daughter of a powerful family. Blake wants to grow stronger because she blames herself and her weakness for the problems in her past. But Yang? The only personal ambition Yang has shown is finding her mother, but it's not clear why (other than, you know, a child wanting to be with their mother). Does she want Raven's approval? Is Yang trying to impress her? Live up to her reputation as a powerful huntress? Get answers about why Raven abandoned her? What does Yang want? I have no idea. I'm not sure Yang does either, and grappling with that question would be great for character development, but it never happens.

And since I'm on the subject, let's talk about Ruby while we're at it. The problem with Ruby's plot is that Ruby has next to no actual personal stake in any of it. Okay, there's the silver eyes thing, but she hasn't shown any great desire to figure out what the hell being a silver-eyed warrior actually means or how to use her silver eye powers. The silver eye thing is basically Macguffin bait right now. You could replace Ruby with pretty much any other character in the show and not much would change. Ruby is ostensibly the main character, but there's remarkably little actually tying her to the main overall story. She's got no personal demons to overcome. She's got no great ambition to fulfill. She's not a driving force behind anything, she just sort of lets the plot carry her along. Hell, she doesn't even have the standard shonen "everything I do is for the sake of my friends!" to fall back on — when her team breaks up and its members need her the most, she gets a new team and goes on a different adventure, rather than season four being about Ruby running around getting the band back together (which would have been awesome, by the way).

Yes, perhaps the writers are awful and decided to throw away the PTSD. If that turns out to be the case, I'll acknowledge it — right now, however, the show hasn't given me an indication of that.
I'd really like to believe that Yang's still suffering, she's just unhealthily repressing her issues for the sake of looking like she's recovering. But RWBY's writing thus far gives me no confidence that this is actually the case. They've been pretty consistently one-dimensional — things generally turn out how they appear at first glance, and if something is going to be reversed later, it's presented as questionable at first, not as a firm conclusion that's later revealed to be incorrect.

I think that opening with Blake arriving in Menagerie (with or without Sun), Ruby and her crew getting ambushed by Tyrian, Yang training with her father, and Weiss plotting her escape might have been the best way to go. As is I keep feeling that I'm watching the stuff that was supposed to happen offscreen during the time skip.
Yeah, that's basically exactly my feeling. There have been a few good things going on with RNJR (Jaune training at night with the recording of Phyrra on his scroll; Crow's meeting with Raven) that would be nice to keep, and a few potentially good bits with Blake and Weiss (Blake being super jumpy on the boat, Weiss losing control of her semblance) that could have been developed into something interesting but seem to have been dropped instead.

Anyone want to place odds on the team being reassembled by the finale? I'm not thinking they're good.
Assuming season four ends up being 12 episodes like every season since the first one? Basically zip, unless something dramatic and completely out of left field happens to cause a last minute Avengers Assemble moment.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#44092: Jan 10th 2017 at 5:31:21 PM

"They should've skipped it" is still apart of that quote.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#44093: Jan 10th 2017 at 5:35:49 PM

Yeah, I don't think "or have done it better" actually alters that statement significantly.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#44094: Jan 10th 2017 at 5:39:42 PM

@LSBK: As far as Ozpin goes, I don't think getting killed was his plan all along unless he can see the future (which would rationalize the kind of absurd Gambit Roulette that would entail), but it might very well have been a contingency; his current body dying gives him anonymity as Wyldchyld said, and if he'd curb-stomped Cinder, there's no guarantee the dragon wouldn't have wrecked Beacon anyway, and even in the best case scenario, he'd likely be subject to major scrutiny by officials.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#44095: Jan 10th 2017 at 5:42:14 PM
Thumped: for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.
Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#44096: Jan 10th 2017 at 5:49:25 PM

If Ambar doesn't wish to respond to my arguments, that's fine, but then they don't get to misrepresent me in an attempt to discourage others from taking my arguments seriously.

@Sereg just as I considered responding to the misconstructions and "men have it worse" B Snote When someone point out that "you'd react differently if it was a woman" is a dodge, it's best not immediately declare that "you'd react differently if it was a woman" as though that were a killing point in one of your prior replies to me.

I never said a thing about "men have it worse" (nor do I believe it). Nor did I say "you'd react differently if it was a woman" in my response. What I said was that if the only reason you have a problem with it is gender, it means the problem is that you're a sexist, just as a misogynist complaining about women voting would be wrong that there's anything to complain about and would just be demonstrating their sexism. You are now inventing a point I never had and pretending that I am a sexist as if it's a killing point in the argument instead of addressing the real point that the sex of an individual should have no baring on the correctness of their actions, and that believing otherwise is sexism.

And you have demonstrated that you think you can invent your own meanings for words as varied as "sociopath", "murder", "negligence", "negligent homicide", and "abandonment".

I actually demonstrated that my definition of sociopath matches the clinical one. Your refusal to accept reality here is an example of you inventing your own definitions and then accusing me of making your mistakes that you want to shift blame for instead of owning up to.

EDIT: Such an argumentation style shows a lack of dedication to truth and instead an attempt to discredit your opponents through lies.

edited 10th Jan '17 5:50:58 PM by Sereg

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#44097: Jan 10th 2017 at 6:56:42 PM

Dude, chill with the personal attacks.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
nombretomado (Season 1) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#44098: Jan 10th 2017 at 7:10:17 PM

~Sereg and ~Ambar, both of you need to step back from making it personal.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#44099: Jan 10th 2017 at 7:12:26 PM

"They should've skipped it" is still apart of that quote.
...yes, and? If you ignore part of the statement, the meaning of the statement changes.

Yeah, I don't think "or have done it better" actually alters that statement significantly.
The point was that neither skipping it nor showing it was an inherently superior option. I was agreeing with that statement. Skipping it could have worked. Showing it could have worked. My complaint wasn't "there's no way they could have shown it successfully, they should have skipped it". My complaint was "the way they showed it was badly done; they would have been better off skipping it than showing what they showed".

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
God_of_Awesome Since: Jan, 2001

Total posts: 81,767
Top