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CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#43626: Jan 2nd 2017 at 3:29:57 PM

[up][up] If Oz is aligned with the God of Darkness (who is Dark Is Not Evil) and Salem with the Light Is Not Good God of Light, I feel like my theory about Yang having a Face–Heel Turn is very, very likely to come to pass given the Sun and Moon (and the age order!) motif the sisters seemingly (I'm less sure about the moon part) have in common with the deific brothers.

Also, as far as the card hiding goes, I agree that the reason they're keeping Salem's motivation very close to their chest is likely because it's tied up into some grand revelation about the setting, but that revelation very likely is closely entwined with some Awful Truth about Ozpin.

edited 2nd Jan '17 3:33:37 PM by CaptainCapsase

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43627: Jan 2nd 2017 at 3:33:50 PM

It occurs to me, if the one god could only create and the other could only destroy, how did the destruction god create the Grimm?

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#43628: Jan 2nd 2017 at 3:35:24 PM

[up] wild mass guess What if the grimm were actually made by the creator who is a paranoid cosmic tyrant in the vein of Zanza from Xenoblade Chronicles and the "silver eyes" power was created by the dark god/moon god as a means of destroying them? wild mass guess

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#43629: Jan 2nd 2017 at 3:35:29 PM

I figure the Grimm aren't true creations, just multiple aspects of destruction.

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#43630: Jan 2nd 2017 at 3:58:14 PM

It occurs to me, if the one god could only create and the other could only destroy, how did the destruction god create the Grimm?

It's rather like The Belgariad. In that universe, once something has been created, it cannot be destroyed (as in, removed from existence). If a sorcerer tries to 'unmake' something, the response of the universe is to destroy the sorcerer instead. Not even the Gods are allowed to unmake something that has come into existence.

I'm therefore viewing the story in that vein. The God of Darkness cannot unmake what has been made, so he creates tools of destruction whereas the God of Light creates Auras and souls (plants, animals, humans.... no mention of faunus, however, which is red flag), and this is therefore why Grimm have no Aura or souls (that we know of, anyway). The brothers had a feud, but instead of fighting each other directly (why is a good question), they fought through the things they made. It's very much like a chess game. They've crafted the chess pieces that they then move around the board.

There's quite a bit of similarity with tales of feuds between gods. Many cultures viewed battles between gods as not occurring directly between the gods, but through pawns in the form of their creations. Look at the battle of Troy, for example, which is a great example of the Greek gods having a big pissing contest with each other by using humans as their chess pieces.

One really fun example which is worth comparing the Gods of Light and Darkness too is one of the Japanese tales:

There were three siblings: Amaterasu, the Sun Goddess; Susano'o, best known as the god of the sea and storms but is connected to the underworld, and the Moon God, Tsukiyomi (the middle brother).

Amaterasu and Susano'o were often fighting each other. The most well-known battle consists of them each making creations to outdo the other's creations. Eventually, Susano'o lost that and was banished, although he eventually regained his sister's good graces. There's very little in the tales about Tsukiyomi, for the Moon God is that unspoken presence around which all thing revolve — the unspoken core of any drama, unacknowledged but ever present and silently dominating.

One good example of how this is used in anime and manga is actually in Bleach, where many, many chapters have pages or scenes that are silently dominated by shots of the moon. It's a powerful mythological and literary tool. RWBY has been doing the exact same thing Kubo did. The moon is the story without ever being mentioned. It's the big clue, the unspoken jigsaw piece around which the entire plot revolves.

One thing to bear in mind: if silver eyes are really the power to destroy Grimm (even if that's the side-effect of what the silver eye powers are really about), that suggests the power comes from the God of Darkness or a third 'middle brother' god. It does not sound like something that would come from the God of Light — the not the one described to us, anyway (given that this is probably the sanitised fairy tale of the real story).

edited 2nd Jan '17 4:05:32 PM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#43631: Jan 2nd 2017 at 4:38:25 PM

Also, it is posible this four relic were used to blow the moon?

actually....it is posible the great war have SOMETHING to do with the relics? four nation fight....

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#43632: Jan 2nd 2017 at 5:22:48 PM

Qrow all but said the Great War was connected to Salem, given how he talked about everything leading to a second one if they're not careful that Jaune's generation would have to fight in.

edited 2nd Jan '17 5:23:11 PM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#43633: Jan 2nd 2017 at 5:32:02 PM

I like to thing that was because mankind was getting to chummy with each other, Salem understand that a united mankind can face her so she screw things around.

Now I feel the moon was not broken in the great war, otherwise would would know it, but I feel the balance was broken and the moon show it.

...maybe Ruby can repair the moon and the balance?

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#43634: Jan 2nd 2017 at 5:33:52 PM

So, something that I haven't seen discussed at all here: am I the only one that things Weiss' actions in the last episode displayed an incredible level of entitlement? Now, before you break out the torches and pitchforks, I'm not saying that Jacques' behavior was in any way kosher. But Weiss was seriously out of line, and displays not a bit of remorse for her behavior.

First, she verbally abuses a room full of guests, and then physically assaults one. (True, she didn't do it entirely deliberately, but the fact that she can get pissed off enough to nearly murder a random woman by accident is a huge problem in and of itself, which she's also failed to acknowledge.) Whether or not she was right to be angry at them isn't the point — yelling and attacking people isn't the right way to go about venting your frustrations.

Then, she talks shit to her dad. She dismisses him to his face because he married into the family. Holy shit, Weiss. He's your dad. The fact that he wasn't born a Schnee doesn't somehow negate the fact that: 1) He's run the Schnee Dust Company for the past however long (years certainly, decades possibly). Even if he's not a "real" Schnee, he's done more for SDC than you have. 2) He's your freaking dad. Parents get to have input into their children's lives. It's sort of exactly their job description. The last name he was born under has nothing to do with that, and dismissing him that way is both entirely wrongheaded and an emotional knife in the back. It's "you're not my real dad!" except that he is her real dad. 3) The whole "what? you can't do this to me!" reaction to being told she was no longer heir to the SDC encapsulates my problem with her attitude perfectly. In her mind, she's the heir and that's that — therefore she deserves to inherit SDC despite having done nothing to earn it. The fact that pissing off her dad (the man who is currently running SDC and who has the authority to decide who inherits it) might have consequences regarding her status as heiress literally never even occurs to her.

Now, again, hitting her was out of line, but the fact of the matter is that Weiss' behavior was unacceptable as well, and Jacques was absolutely right to call her out on it. The fact that she doubled down and came out swinging (metaphorically speaking) rather than acknowledging that just maybe she'd screwed up doesn't do anything to make her more sympathetic in that situation.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#43635: Jan 2nd 2017 at 5:43:43 PM

Yeah, I saw some pretty good analysis that, for all her talk about reforming the SDC and giving workers better conditions and clearing the Schnee name, Weiss has done all of jack and shit about learning how to manage and run the company, the inner workings, politics of Atlas, or whatever else that doesn't involve adventures with her friends, more or less. I doubt the show will point it out, but she's far less reasonable than she's made out to be here.

And Capsace, could I ask you to put in tags for Xenoblade spoilers, please? I've been trying to steer clear of them for when I do play it, as I hear the story is really good, and I'd rather not ruin the twists for myself inadvertently.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43636: Jan 2nd 2017 at 5:46:24 PM

I'm pretty much in agreement. It's easy to ignore because Jacques is a shithead and those people at the banquet probably not much better, but it's not like she knew each of them individually or what they thought or felt.

And with Henry, we were supposed to be cheering when she kicked him out but he was right: he didn't actually do anything wrong.

Weiss is apparently trying to emulate their founder but she's only trying to emulate part of what made him great.

edited 2nd Jan '17 5:51:14 PM by LSBK

FergardStratoavis A Fluff Ringer from Bellveins (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
A Fluff Ringer
#43637: Jan 2nd 2017 at 5:50:30 PM

Perhaps someone - say Winter, Irondad or even Klein - can point it out to her that at the end of the day she doesn't necessarily want the company? Like, it might have been the case early on in the story, but she seems like she had more fun with friends killing Grimm and doing stuff.

I would be curious to see if the show turns itself on its head to show that rebelling against your tyrant dad also has to be done smart unless you want to end up looking like a tool.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#43638: Jan 2nd 2017 at 5:50:41 PM

"True, she didn't do it entirely deliberately, but the fact that she can get pissed off enough to nearly murder a random woman by accident is a huge problem in and of itself, which she's also failed to acknowledge"

that was an accident, is hard to be sorry about that, also she was force into that party and to stay thanks to jacques controling behivor, is harsh to moderate your behivor when everyone around you is acting like a douche.

"It's "you're not my real dad!" except that he is her real dad."

What Weiss atack is his obession with the schnee name, something he didnt even born with it but instead marry into it and them decide to swing around at the cost of a funcional family.

"In her mind, she's the heir and that's that — therefore she deserves to inherit SDC despite having done nothing to earn it. The fact that pissing off her dad (the man who is currently running SDC and who has the authority to decide who inherits it) might have consequences regarding her status as heiress literally never even occurs to her."

The question would be: why she deserve to be out only because she disagre with him? because that is the real issue, Whetly got to be the hair thanks to be the little good boy, not for anything else.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
doineedaname from Eastern US Since: Nov, 2010
#43639: Jan 2nd 2017 at 5:53:57 PM

[up][up][up][up] [up]Quite a few people on another site I follow RWBY on said much the same thing. In fact there was a surprising amount of sentiment I saw following it there that after it Weiss really isn't fit to inherit the company and that if Jacques wasn't such a massive asshole they'd have no problem with how he was punishing her. And maybe even with him slapping her there if he wasn't such a horrible person.

edited 2nd Jan '17 5:57:37 PM by doineedaname

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43640: Jan 2nd 2017 at 5:55:59 PM

Yeah, the thing is he was right when he said that her attitude and presumption that she can get anything she wants was an indictment of him and his wife as parents. It's just that he came to that conclusion for the wrong reasons.

edited 2nd Jan '17 6:00:44 PM by LSBK

TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
#43641: Jan 2nd 2017 at 5:59:40 PM

Yeah, the point Jacques was getting at was right, the reason for making that point was wrong. Cause ultimately, Jacques cares only for his reputation and it seems little else.

It's ok, Ironwood will eventually save the day with the help of Super Penny 2.0, Robo-Phyrra, and uhhhh...Zwei.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#43642: Jan 2nd 2017 at 6:13:55 PM

that was an accident, is hard to be sorry about that
No it's not. Step one: admit that you made a mistake. Step two: apologize for making the mistake. Step three: take action to prevent said mistake from happening again in the future.

Weiss is 0/3 on that count.

What Weiss atack is his obession with the schnee name, something he didnt even born with it but instead marry into it and them decide to swing around at the cost of a funcional family.
As I said, though, Jacques has done more for the Schnee family than Weiss has. Weiss was born into it, but Jacques worked at being a Schnee. Who's more deserving of the name, again?

The question would be: why she deserve to be out only because she disagre with him? because that is the real issue, Whetly got to be the hair thanks to be the little good boy, not for anything else.
Whitley gets to be heir because he's the only one who's displayed any indication of giving a damn about the Schnee Dust Company. Winter ran off to join the military. Weiss ran off to attend Beacon. Whitley stayed at home and presumably actually learned how to run a major multinational corporation.

Yeah, the point Jacques was getting at was right, the reason for making that point was wrong. Cause ultimately, Jacques cares only for his reputation and it seems little else.
Yeah, RWBY has a pretty consistent problem with Strawman Has a Point. We're supposed to agree with Weiss and disagree with Jacques because Weiss is (in theory) a sympathetic protagonist and Jacques is a big jerk. The problem is that Jacques is right despite being a big jerk (even if he's right for the wrong reasons), and Weiss has never really been all that sympathetic because at the end of the day, we're four seasons in and she's still a spoiled rich girl.

Hopefully this arc will finally knock some of that out of her.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#43643: Jan 2nd 2017 at 6:19:37 PM

[up] Considering there's several occasions when what looked like bad writing actually had a decent explanation behind it, I wouldn't necessarily assume that the Strawman Has a Point is unintentional.

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#43644: Jan 2nd 2017 at 6:21:38 PM

Yeah, I was having trouble with that scene. When I saw that fans were citing his 'I don't give a damn what you want' speech as an example of parental abuse, I was actually thinking 'No, that's the one moment when he's actually acting like a normal father, given Weiss's behaviour'.

On the issue of her Semblance going out of control, I have a different attitude. She lashed out because she's in pain about Beacon (and probably feeling guilty she's not doing more). That was essentially the point of her moping in front of the big painting of Beacon. So, she lashed out. It's not good, but that's what happens when people bottle instead of working through their emotions in a healthy way.

Unfortunately, Weiss is not in a healthy environment, so she doesn't have a healthy way to work through these feelings. Therefore, as it so often does, it turns into a boiling magma chamber just waiting for the moment when the pressure blows the cap.

While her father was right to intervene in her meltdown, the way he intervened made the situation worse. Her anger explodes into her Semblance which proceeds to attack the woman. I think this is actually interesting. The Boarbatusk attacked a perceived threat to Weiss's safety. That tells us something about Weiss's state of mind. She's not just upset about Beacon, she's feeling besieged, under attack and she lashes out partially in self-defence - hence the boarbatusk's reaction.

Now, psychoanalysis aside, the end result is that her burst of anger endangered someone's life. A nurturing environment wouldn't simply be helping her deal with her emotional state (see Blake's family situation), it would also be helping her address the connection between her emotional state and her Semblance, not just to she can regain emotional balance but also so she can develop control over her powers.

And here's part of why Jacques handled it badly. He doesn't care what his daughter's emotional state is or whether she can control her power, or what she needs to be able to develop the control.

It is possible to be a parent who can both discipline a child's outburst and also positively address the emotional chaos that led to said outburst without letting them get away with any misdeeds that occurred in the process.

There's no recognition here that Weiss needs help, it's just a blame game. Jacques has just locked a loaded and misfiring bomb inside a room and walked out without apparently giving two hoots whether or not that bomb goes off.

In the family's eyes, her real crime is that her entitlement doesn't make her selfish enough to beat her brother at the game when it should be that none of them has a right to be entitled in the first place.

That's pretty appalling.

So, yes, while I do agree that Weiss has amply displayed what Port surmised back in Volume 1 (she's spoiled and entitled and needs to get over herself), it's now desperately clear that she's a product of her upbringing and needs some help in improving her lot (not just her physical circumstances but the type of person she is, too).

Being disinherited will probably be good for her.

edited 2nd Jan '17 6:26:56 PM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#43645: Jan 2nd 2017 at 6:22:22 PM

"As I said, though, Jacques has done more for the Schnee family than Weiss has. Weiss was born into it, but Jacques worked at being a Schnee. Who's more deserving of the name, again? "·

Jacques marry is way into the name and them decide who is to be used, including using Weiss as PR move even against his wishies, he didnt got the job because of being so good, he got it by convincing a old men to marry into the family.

"Whitley gets to be heir because he's the only one who's displayed any indication of giving a damn about the Schnee Dust Company"

is father and the company are one a this point, you know that? that is the issue here: Weiss dosent play by is rules them she is out. whitley got with the job because he obey daddy(hell, he said to weiss in the damn episode)

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#43646: Jan 2nd 2017 at 6:40:28 PM

On the issue of her Semblance going out of control, I have a different attitude. She lashed out because she's in pain about Beacon (and probably feeling guilty she's not doing more). That was essentially the point of her moping in front of the big painting of Beacon. So, she lashed out. It's not good, but that's what happens when people bottle instead of working through their emotions in a healthy way.
Oh, sure. I agree with that (and the rest of what you say about it), the only thing is that Weiss never admitted fault. She nearly murdered an innocent (if dickish) person — only Ironwood's timely intervention salvaged the situation (and then Ironwood proceeded to side with Weiss...). Regardless of how much pain she's in and how accidental the incident was, nearly murdering someone is kind of a big deal and deserves to be treated as such, but instead both Weiss and the narrative brush it off as no big deal and pretty much pretend it never happened once the immediate danger is passed.

What needs to happen is Weiss taking a stand that actually costs her something. Other than the scar on her eye, I don't think that's actually happened to her yet. Either she swallows her pride and tries to make nice with her dad while still steering things in the direction she wants (rather than just throwing a tantrum when things aren't how she wants), or else she gives up her claim to the Schnee legacy and runs off to do her own thing as a Huntress rather than an heiress.

Jacques marry is way into the name and them decide who is to be used, including using Weiss as PR move even against his wishies, he didnt got the job because of being so good, he got it by convincing a old men to marry into the family.
Which does nothing to change the fact that Jacques has actually put work in to the Schnee family and the Schnee Dust Company, while Weiss has not.

is father and the company are one a this point, you know that? that is the issue here: Weiss dosent play by is rules them she is out. whitley got with the job because he obey daddy(hell, he said to weiss in the damn episode)
Jacques wants Weiss to do what's best for the company. Weiss wants to do what's best for Weiss. Jacques and Whitley are willing to do what's best for the company, while Weiss and presumably Winter are not. It's not exactly a hard decision to see who would be the better person to run the company.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43647: Jan 2nd 2017 at 6:49:19 PM

Either she swallows her pride and tries to make nice with her dad while still steering things in the direction she wants (rather than just throwing a tantrum when things aren't how she wants), or else she gives up her claim to the Schnee legacy and runs off to do her own thing as a Huntress rather than an heiress.

I doubt this is going to happen because she's already been told that was one of her options by Winter, and rejected it, and it was treated (and even way Winter phrased it made it seem like) the right thing to do.

I don't think the show is actually going to treat compromising with Jacques on anything as the "right" decision.

DeanCole Since: Jun, 2015
#43648: Jan 2nd 2017 at 6:50:36 PM

Considering there's several occasions when what looked like bad writing actually had a decent explanation behind it, I wouldn't necessarily assume that the Strawman Has a Point is unintentional.

From what we've seen and heard of him thus far.Its hard to believe that he'll get any development deeper than 'abusive asshole'.

Then again.People thought Ironwood was a traitor despite him having legitimate reasons for his actions as well and he turned out to be a kinda of benevolent dictator.So any things possible.

edited 2nd Jan '17 6:56:36 PM by DeanCole

Darthwyn leader of Inherit from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
leader of Inherit
#43649: Jan 2nd 2017 at 6:55:20 PM

I would say Jacques is right and wrong at the same time. Yeah Weiss is certainly acts entitled, but considering you don't usually get those traits out of thin air it's an obvious sign that neither he nor the mother showed any kind of decent morals. He also failed to notice that and do anything in regards to her accident. If he actually cared he would have done something about that rather then what amounts to keeping her out of the view of the public.

Whitley is more the default because there are no other children. Winter probably left because she wanted nothing to do with her father I assume. Right or wrong she she probably had good reasons for simply leaving and following her own pursuits. Weiss seems to want to run the company though how she plans to while a huntress remains a mystery. She might have intended to take a important position upon retirement as a huntress and left the day to day business in the meantime to a board she selects. We have no clue of Whitley is qualified to run company or family.

It's more like Atals and Jacques fail to see the big picture, but at the same time no one is aware of the big picture because of the people that do know share nothing with other people. They also fail to realize that the fall of beacon makes their county look bad because footage shows their army turning on people. If Jacques was not so worried about his money and good name he would sat weiss down and talked to her and see how she what she witnessed before just making do things to boost the family image. He probably would have noticed that she was on edge sooner and the incident might not have happened. That or pointed out that she nearly killed a person instead of what he stunt costs. She only snapped because he seemed more concerned with profits and family reputation than the well being of his daughter.

"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - Dorthy
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#43650: Jan 2nd 2017 at 6:58:15 PM

[up][up][up]The problem is that if she refuses to compromise with him then she's locked out of the loop and has zero influence over the Schnee Dust Company. If she actually wants to reform it and turn it into a force for the public good rather than a profit-generating machine, she needs to, you know, actually be in a position of influence within it first.

And if she says "eh, fuck it, I'll just go be a Huntress instead" then she's leaving the SDC in the hands of her asshole sociopath father, rather than putting its considerable resources into the fight against Salem, which feels like a loss for the good guys to me even if it makes Weiss happy.

What I'm afraid of is that Weiss will end up in control of the company through a plot device like her dad and brother being killed or something.

edited 2nd Jan '17 6:59:17 PM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

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