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CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#43351: Jan 1st 2017 at 8:51:43 AM

[up] re: "everyone called it about Cinder and Salem's plan."

Well it's not exactly clear what Salem intends to do with the power to reshape the world and why she wants to do that, and we're also in the dark about whether that's the same thing as what she's told her subordinates she intends to do. I definitely think there's a lot more to this story than we've been told thus far, much like with the tale of the maidens and the wizard.

Especially in regards to the creatures of Grimm, and the nature of the divine relics. We've gotten the Disneyfied version of the "fairy tale", but not the gritty original version.

Edit: Hmmm, some people are theorizing that Doctor Watts is the headmaster of Haven Academy, or at least a professor there. I could actually see that; it would explain how Cinder and co were able to pose as Haven students without even an eyebrow being raised.

edited 1st Jan '17 9:22:31 AM by CaptainCapsase

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#43352: Jan 1st 2017 at 9:21:13 AM

I just caught the episode. All I have to say is that RT is really evil with that cliffhanger.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#43353: Jan 1st 2017 at 9:23:38 AM

[up] Evil cliffhangers and faking out the audience is something Rooster Teeth is known for, along with massive world shattering plot twists (the RVB people are actually living in a simulated universe, for example), which is why I go out on a limb with my wild mass guess.

Edit: Also, it occurs to me that Qrow's apparent ability to transform into a literal crow ISN'T his semblance, which is all sorts of interesting. Presumably that's one of the things he decided against telling RNJR about after seeing Raven.

edited 1st Jan '17 9:30:53 AM by CaptainCapsase

FergardStratoavis A Fluff Ringer from Bellveins (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
A Fluff Ringer
#43354: Jan 1st 2017 at 9:30:23 AM

  • So Grimm predate humanity. Now, was there a time where they ignored humanity or merely contested their "living" space with them or were they up to destroy it from the get-go? It seems like Grimm simply just wreck shit up, but then switched to humanity/Fauni for a specific reason. Salem's meddling?
  • Who is Salem? A descendant of The Dark God or some sort of his follower that wishes to upstart him? Where are the Gods now? Dead? In hiding? Just pissed-off? Is there more Gods?
  • What do Maidens and Relics have in common? Salem's Plan seems to prioritize the former, but Qrow's explanation implies Relics are infinitely more important. The implication is also that they are physical objects of sorts, but what exactly do they do? Choice, in particular.
  • Jaune's idealism is taking dives with each episode and he's getting more aware of stuff. Of course, you can ponder why was he blind to Pyrrha almost throwing himself at him, but eh. I suppose I can excuse that.
    • For that matter, Pyrrha was probably not chosen as merely the best, but also the most willing of candidates, someone who would selflessly throw their life away for a greater cause. Jaune's outrage is IMO understandable.
  • Belladonna parents are best parents. Also, more fuel to Sun x Kali.
  • At first I wanted to say that Sun's handling of the stuff was tactless, but the man is the definition of tactless. I feel they might be pushing him being a worried comic relief too much though. He does want to help and Blake continues to not want help (same happened with Yang in Season 2).
    • He also got the best quote this volume, ever.
  • Lil' White Fang Ninja. Probably not Neo, but a whole another character altogether.
  • PASSIVE SEMBLANCES. YES. Also, Sad Qrow is sad.
    • ...he's going to kick it by the volume's end, isn't he?
  • Still no Yang? Like, I can't imagine her not getting a whole episode for herself now (or at least a half of it).

@On Doctor Watts: ...I would be both upset and amazed.

edited 1st Jan '17 9:32:30 AM by FergardStratoavis

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#43355: Jan 1st 2017 at 9:34:06 AM

[up] Well, Grimm supposedly predate humanity, but as with the version of the maiden story we got from World of Remnant, I think it's abundantly clear that the creation myth we get from Qrow isn't the whole story. What we're getting sounds a lot like a sanitized, Written by the Winners version of events.

To start with, Ozpin obviously knows more about Salem than he's clued in his subordinates about, and I also get the distinct impression that the conflict between the two deities might not be as clear cut as it's been made out to be in the version of the story we got from Qrow, if my theory about the RWBY cosmology being Gnostic influenced turns out to be correct. Then there's the matter of how the Maidens and the relics are connected, and how Ruby's own power fits into this.

As far as what became of the gods after the end of the story, my theory is that they're still around, and Ozpin is their agent for enforcing their divine order, with Salem being a Rage Against the Heavens villain intending to cast down what she perceives as (and what very well might be) a pantheon of celestial tyrants regardless of the cost or the consequences.

Alternatively, Ozpin's original incarnation (the wizard?) is responsible for the gods being seemingly MIA, and Salem intends to restore them to their "rightful" place. The gods also may or may not in fact actually be a race of Precursors who ended up being worshiped by ignorant primitive humans.

Edit: Also, this is from a previous episode but did anyone catch the lyrics from the song that plays during Qrow's fight with Tyrian? I feel like they'll be significant, and that's Qrow's own Image Song. Which sounds a LOT like Ruby's.

edited 1st Jan '17 9:49:35 AM by CaptainCapsase

Psyga315 Since: Jan, 2001
#43356: Jan 1st 2017 at 10:07:20 AM

The two brothers gives me more of some Agito vibes.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#43357: Jan 1st 2017 at 10:12:31 AM

[up] I'm more inclined to think of the creation myths of actual historical religions that sound similar. In particular you have Zoroastrianism, and possibly Gnosticism depending on whether the version we got from Qrow is the whole story.

I also have to mention once again that Ruby and Yang respectively seem to have a Moon and a Sun motif, which respectively have an association with Night and Day and by extension Dark and Light. Hence my suspicion that they may end up on opposite sides of the cosmic conflict we're just now getting clues about. The fact that the dark god is the younger sibling and the light god the older also fits with this.

Perhaps there's even a Vicious Cycle where the sun (Yang) and the moon (Ruby) are fated to fight, destroy the world in the process, and sacrifice themselves to recreate it, though that is a pretty massive reach.

I definitely think Ruby's power is connected to the moon, and perhaps that's the representation of the dark god in contrast with the sun which represents his brother. If the grimm are also connected to that entity, it might explain why Ruby's power is so effective against them, and would imply that freezing grimm is just the tip of the iceberg. Or perhaps the moon is a third entity, a lover whose attentions the brothers competed for, as is often the case in ancient mythology?

edited 1st Jan '17 10:35:39 AM by CaptainCapsase

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43358: Jan 1st 2017 at 11:09:26 AM

@Captain, I didn't respond until now because I prefer to not have any spoilers since I can just wait until the day after it first comes out.

And on your point about this making your theories more probable, I don't really see how. Maybe down the line but not right now.

And to whoever said that Qrow's power makes it more likely he's Ruby's father but just didn't want to endanger her. You could apply the same logic for why he wouldn't want to form any connections or have any family. It doesn't really hold up.

But this does give another reason for why he wanted them to stay out of the fight besides the obvious. And confirmation that his and Raven's ability to to turn into birds is not their Semblance. I was pretty confident about that but it's good to have clarification.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#43359: Jan 1st 2017 at 11:23:40 AM

[up] Who even said that? It definitely emphasizes the connection between Ruby and Qrow, but until further notice that appears to be his status as her mentor figure in a way her own father simply wasn't due to the emotions surrounding Summer's death, which according to Yang pretty much made him shut down.

I still wouldn't entirely rule out that particular theory, but for the time being there's no pressing reason to have such a twist besides "WHAT A TWEEST!!!"

edited 1st Jan '17 11:30:23 AM by CaptainCapsase

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43360: Jan 1st 2017 at 11:25:33 AM

[up]Rhythm Beats, said this explanation would make it not an Ass Pull if it turned out to be true. I was pointing out why that doesn't really work.

Though, you're making an assumption there too. We don't really know how long Taiyang was "shutdown" nor do we know when Qrow started mentoring Ruby. One doesn't have to be connected to the other. Apparently Taiyang taught Yang how to fight.

edited 1st Jan '17 11:28:03 AM by LSBK

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#43361: Jan 1st 2017 at 11:30:17 AM

[up] I'm making an assumption but I don't think it's that big of an assumption, Ruby remarked in the first episode that she was garbage before Qrow trained her, they have a very similar leitmotif in their respective themes, use similar weapons, and have an identical aura color. There's definitely a very deep connection there, probably deeper than the one that exists between Qrow and his biological niece, though I tend to think of that as coming from Qrow having once been close to Summer or having an unrequited crush on her back in their school days.

As far as the other point, the thing that's significant as far as my guesses about the setting is the fact that the Creation Myth we get from Qrow has some distinct similarities to that of several historical religions, among them Zoroastrianism and Gnosticism, with the latter being a fairly popular model for fictional cosmology because of the very effective twist on the traditional Abrahamic cosmology that's inherent in that cosmology.

edited 1st Jan '17 11:32:03 AM by CaptainCapsase

BlackSunNocturne Since: Aug, 2013
#43362: Jan 1st 2017 at 11:31:55 AM

I'm sorry, but Qrow being revealed to be Ruby's father WOULD be an Ass Pull, because at this point in the series, there has been NO implications that he's her father. The only "implication" is that he taught her how to use a scythe-type weapon.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#43363: Jan 1st 2017 at 11:33:30 AM

[up] It would be an asspull largely because there's no narrative reason for such a twist to occur. There's certainly elements which connect the two beyond their weapon of choice (similar leitmotif, similar color palette, same aura color), though nothing that implies anything beyond a mentor-student relation.

edited 1st Jan '17 11:36:38 AM by CaptainCapsase

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43364: Jan 1st 2017 at 11:33:32 AM

[up][up][up][up]Yes, but that doesn't mean he trained her because Taiyang was emotional wreck, nor does it mean Qrow went out of his way to be her mentor anything.

As someone else put it She decided to work with a scythe, she sucked, and then he stepped in. She probably uses a scythe because of him, but I doubt it was out of him going "mentor mode" or anything.

Actually, I'm not even sure what you think my point was. Did you think I was saying he wasn't like a mentor to her? I'm just saying you shouldn't make assumptions about the situation surrounding it.

edited 1st Jan '17 11:35:07 AM by LSBK

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#43365: Jan 1st 2017 at 11:35:58 AM

[up] I'm not sure what your point was either, I feel like we were kind of talking past each other.

edited 1st Jan '17 11:38:36 AM by CaptainCapsase

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43366: Jan 1st 2017 at 11:38:21 AM

[up]Mm.

But, yeah, that theory never really had anything of substance behind it and it's weird that a lot of people still talk about it as if it has merit. I don't get why it's so appealing, how exactly would that improve the story?

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#43367: Jan 1st 2017 at 11:38:46 AM

[up] If Ruby was like many, many fantasy protagonists and had mysterious parentage, I would definitely guess Qrow was her father, but since RWBY didn't use that particular trope, it's off the table barring a twist which currently serves no purpose beyond a shocking revelation for its own sake.

edited 1st Jan '17 11:39:44 AM by CaptainCapsase

Cross (Don’t ask)
#43368: Jan 1st 2017 at 11:40:50 AM

Summer was a mystery, but overall Ruby's family tree has been pretty straight forward after the confirmation on who Yang's mother was.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#43369: Jan 1st 2017 at 11:42:01 AM

[up] Which is why the wild mass guess is seemingly a case of viewers being Wrong Genre Savvy; yes a lot of fantasy stories do this, but RWBY thus far hasn't, so the things Qrow has in common with Ruby are probably reflective of him being a mentor to her rather than anything else.

edited 1st Jan '17 11:42:21 AM by CaptainCapsase

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43370: Jan 1st 2017 at 11:42:40 AM

But, speaking of Summer, I wouldn't be surprised that with this development it was revealed that Qrow blames himself for her death because she died during a fight because of a freak accident or something and he was nearby.

Assuming he lives, of course, but I still think his chances are pretty good. Not as good as last week, but, he's not dead yet.

Edit: Maybe Raven will conveniently have an antidote that can cure any venom?

edited 1st Jan '17 11:45:09 AM by LSBK

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#43371: Jan 1st 2017 at 11:44:20 AM

Yeah, I don't really think Qrow will die here given we had a case of Mentor Occupational Hazard (two, or perhaps one and a half considering Ozpin's Body Surf?) just last season, but he'll almost certainly be incapacitated.

Edit: As far as how that'll happen, I also think Raven will have something to do with it; her rule might very well apply to Qrow as well. Maybe we get to meet her clan next episode, which could be understandably a bit shocking for RNJR. Particularly Ren and Nora...Oh and Ruby since her half-sister's mother is a murderous bandit, and also Jaune because he had some fond memories of Xi'on.

edited 1st Jan '17 11:48:01 AM by CaptainCapsase

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43372: Jan 1st 2017 at 11:49:42 AM

Also, it's interesting that the natural result of the Maiden power moving to another host is similar to what the aura transfer would have done.

And what did happen to the Grimm? Going by this they were originally created just to destroy life in general, but now they focus solely on humans and Faunus, so what changed? Salem? It makes even less sense when thinking about it in terms of the two sharing a creator.

edited 1st Jan '17 11:50:30 AM by LSBK

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#43373: Jan 1st 2017 at 11:50:47 AM

[up] I don't think the story we got from Qrow is the whole picture, since Ozpin's clearly kept him in the dark about...probably quite a lot of things, chief among them being Salem, who Qrow seems to have no real knowledge about beyond "she's our enemy", even though it's very clear to us viewers there's a personal connection between her and Ozpin.

Things really don't add up based on what we know now, and the Creation Myth we got sounds VERY compatible with the sort of twist that Gnosticism brings to the table, which is why I'm expecting something like that to crop up. Note that while such a setting typically has God Is Evil in effect, that doesn't necessarily mean Satan Is Good by comparison.

edited 1st Jan '17 11:53:42 AM by CaptainCapsase

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#43374: Jan 1st 2017 at 11:51:28 AM

Just watched the episode. The scene with Blake and her dad was going so well. Then Grabby McIKnowYouWantMe decided to burst in. Hit him more Blake, hit him more.

I suppose Qrow's semblance does explain some things. If I was a permanent bad luck charm, I might have a drinking problem too.

edited 1st Jan '17 11:51:39 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#43375: Jan 1st 2017 at 11:52:43 AM

[up] In fairness to Sun, he actually had something important he wanted to tell her.


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