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Prime_of_Perfection Where force fails, cunning prevails Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Where force fails, cunning prevails
#43276: Dec 27th 2016 at 7:01:54 AM

Probably, but they don't know that. And it's better than nothing. Plus, even if he's not saying shit, that neutralizes him for a bit as threat running around in the world. And who knows, from their POV, he might attract more to come their way? And perhaps they might need his venom for sake of Qrow's health.

Just tons more pros to capturing an enemy operative if you aren't going to finish them off than just letting them run away.

Improving as an author, one video at a time.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#43277: Dec 27th 2016 at 7:53:15 AM

@LSBK: the power of the maidens being a stepping stone towards something greater doesn't preclude my theory about it originating from the same race that i theorized Salem is the sole surviving example of. Throw in the theory about the rest of the Precursors being turned into the first grimm, and it neatly ties together several disparate elements of the setting.

edited 27th Dec '16 7:53:39 AM by CaptainCapsase

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43278: Dec 27th 2016 at 9:02:46 AM

[up]But you brought it up as if the Maiden power is the thing she wants to reclaim. That's what I was disputing. I don't really have much to say about any of your other theories.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#43279: Dec 27th 2016 at 9:15:58 AM

[up] The context in which the line appears gives the impression that the Maiden power was what Cinder and Salem were talking about "reclaiming", though it's certainly part of a larger plan.

As far as the other theories I have, the way Salem talks about humankind really doesn't give me the impression that she Was Once A Human, and she's clearly not a Faunus. Going off of that assumption there's a relatively limited number of possibilities broadly speaking regarding Salem's origin.

edited 27th Dec '16 9:17:25 AM by CaptainCapsase

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43280: Dec 27th 2016 at 9:22:42 AM

Eh, it's really not all that uncommon for fictional characters to talk about humans (or whatever) as if they never were one if they've changed and happen to hate humanity or whatever reasons.

But like I said, I don't really have any issues with that right now.

But I do have seriously doubt the Maiden power comes from whatever Salem is, and I'm starting to have doubts that she was even the start of the Grimm and didn't just pick up someone else's torch.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#43281: Dec 27th 2016 at 9:30:35 AM

[up] Any particular reason for that doubt? The way Salem talks about Ozpin* seems to imply that it's been going on for a very, very long time, or at least that's the impression I got.

* I'm talking about the gesalt entity which now inhabits Oscar, which may or may not actually be called Ozpin.

edited 27th Dec '16 9:34:09 AM by CaptainCapsase

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43282: Dec 27th 2016 at 9:33:49 AM

It going on for awhile doesn't necessarily mean it started with either of them.

And what are you expecting to happen here, Ozpin just to completely take over his body and for Oscar to just fade away?

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#43283: Dec 27th 2016 at 9:35:29 AM

[up] I'm expecting the numerous lifetimes of memories and experiences Ozpin undoubtedly has to slowly crowd out the two decades give or take that Oscar has. I wouldn't expect him to fade away as much as be absorbed into the Ozpin gesalt, becoming yet another component of what is undoubtedly a very vast and ancient intellect.

edited 27th Dec '16 9:36:20 AM by CaptainCapsase

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43284: Dec 27th 2016 at 9:37:58 AM

We don't really have a reason to think that'll happen. It didn't seem to happen to Ozpin, and he implied he's been in the same situation.

I think you're conflating two things, I don't think this is supposed to be the reason for Ozpin's long lifespan. The way he talked about things makes me think it's more complex than that.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#43285: Dec 27th 2016 at 9:39:13 AM

[up] Oscar was already catching himself talking in the first person about things that clearly happened during Ozpin's life, and on the flipside Ozpin goes on talking about "our thoughts".

Consider also how he warned Pyrrha that her own personality might be overridden by Amber's if she went through with the aura transference. He then apologizes to her after flipping the switch, so he clearly knew that something bad would happen, presumably from experience.

edited 27th Dec '16 9:41:14 AM by CaptainCapsase

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43286: Dec 27th 2016 at 9:41:05 AM

Eh, I figure he'll just have to get used to it. I mean, this a pretty new, weird thing, going on. But we'll probably find out (a little) more before the volume is over.

And he didn't say Amber's personality would overshadow her own, he said she might not be the same person. Not totally equivalent.

edited 27th Dec '16 9:42:37 AM by LSBK

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#43287: Dec 27th 2016 at 9:42:02 AM

[up] I'm really not sure about that, given the foreshadowing about aura transference we got in Volume 3. Though I definitely think we'll learn more by the end of the volume.

Edit: He didn't say Amber's personality would override her own, but the fact that he was apologizing definitely implies he knows something bad would happen, and presumably that would mean Amber's personality would either overwrite or merge with Pyrrha's. The same would happen with Oscar, but with dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of personalities rather than just two. Which takes it from "it'll change your personality irrevocably" to something that would almost completely overshadow the original host.

edited 27th Dec '16 9:47:24 AM by CaptainCapsase

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43288: Dec 27th 2016 at 9:47:08 AM

[up]I think you're doing that thing when you make things too dark too fast. He admits things are going to be hard, that's not the same thing as "you'll basically stop existing in your own body" and that hopefully he can do great things.

There's a lot more that we need to know, but that doesn't mean you should immediately go to the worst possible thing. Again, unless you're assuming Ozpin was "completely overshadowed" I don't know why you'd assume it here. For all we know winning against what you're describing, assuming it even works that way, is what really marks someone as ready for this.

edited 27th Dec '16 9:49:53 AM by LSBK

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#43289: Dec 27th 2016 at 9:52:58 AM

[up] I don't think I'm going dark just for the sake of going dark, I'm more just extrapolating what one would expect to happen to a person whose mind was suddenly flooded with thousands of years of memories and experiences that weren't their own. For someone around 20 years old, that would completely eclipse their own personality.

As far as Ozpin goes, I assume that did happen to the person who became the Headmaster of Beacon Academy in his past; Ozpin may not even be his original name, but rather the name of the gesalt entity he was a host of.

It's not like a person's past lives taking over their body in settings with reincarnation is a new idea, and for someone willing to give up their sense of self to become part of something greater, it might not even be a bad thing.

edited 27th Dec '16 10:00:16 AM by CaptainCapsase

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43290: Dec 27th 2016 at 9:57:34 AM

Eh, I have other issues with some stuff you've said, but this is mostly speculation on both our parts, so it doesn't really matter.

edited 27th Dec '16 9:59:18 AM by LSBK

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#43291: Dec 27th 2016 at 1:40:50 PM

it does rise intersting question about Amber AND Penny.

The way Ozpin talk said there is a risk with Phyrra so yeah, it is posible that Amber personality or part of it would have merge, I think Cinder didnt suffer that because Amber was kill or the bug grimm help the process(which is why Ruby silver eyes damage her)

Also, it bring questions about Penny, I do belive now that she was a cyborg with the mind of young girl transfered to save her since I cant belive someone manage to recreate Aura, but it rise more questions: does that mean Penny is truly dead? you can create new bodies but so far moving aura seen to be a dificult process

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#43292: Dec 27th 2016 at 3:03:53 PM

Well I've made several guesses that Cinder would start seeing hallucinations of Pyrrha and/or Amber due to the aura transfer between Amber and Pyrrha (which did start and so I predicted - based on nothing admittedly - that a piece of Pyrrha's Aura was taken when the process reversed and wound up in Cinder). It would add more heartbreak to Jaune if the soul of his girlfriend wound up in the body of the woman who killed her because the writers need to rub more salt on that wound.

For Penny, I doubt she's dead. She's a robot after all and isn't biologically alive, so dismemberment shouldn't mean her aura goes away. Which raises horrifying implications one when thinks about it.

@ Prime_of_Perfection from the last page:

The fact they just let Tyrain escape is bugging me even more. His aura was down, his tail removed, and the odds are not in his favor. Those other 3 should have pressed their advantage! Or at least maybe go to try and Qrow call out don't or something. Don't just stand there and watch him retreat.

Saying they let him escape would imply they could stop him from doing so. All three of them had been thrashed before Qrow's arrival and have to be low on Aura. Even without his tail and aura he's still a dangerous opponent, and to go after him would involve leaving Ruby and Qrow without protection with no aura, which would be bad if some Grimm came along because of all the negative emotions in the area.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#43294: Dec 27th 2016 at 5:40:30 PM

Headcanon.

:333

edited 27th Dec '16 5:43:52 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#43295: Dec 27th 2016 at 5:59:26 PM

A this point I think Ironwood should just quick atlas and go into porn industry, he have the looks and the perfect porn nameevil grin

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#43297: Dec 27th 2016 at 6:31:10 PM

...I can't tell if the party guests are all wearing gray/black just so that Weiss and her dad could stand out, or just so they could clash with the Schnee family colors like a bunch of dicks.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Prime_of_Perfection Where force fails, cunning prevails Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Where force fails, cunning prevails
#43298: Dec 28th 2016 at 7:01:08 AM

@Shaoken So a group of four people with guns can't just shoot at him? While he's just standing there out in the open.

I'm not saying they have to succeed or even do much. But just standing there while he's talking then watching him run off is dumb.

Improving as an author, one video at a time.
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#43299: Dec 28th 2016 at 8:23:55 AM

Talking Is a Free Action

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Prime_of_Perfection Where force fails, cunning prevails Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Where force fails, cunning prevails
#43300: Dec 28th 2016 at 9:36:51 AM

Except when it's not, like 5 minutes prior when Tyrian attacked Qrow mid talking. [lol]

I don't even feel they have to succeed or even leave that area. Just don't stand there passively when an enemy operative is just standing there with NO armor, outnumbered, and suffering from an injury which will likely cripple his fighting ability. And then factoring that two of them literally have guns and one is a sniper, worth the effort of trying to take him down. The Qrow factor doesn't even work as well for me given that they didn't check on him until after Tyrian ran off. And even then, you only need 1 person to do so. You all have guns! Shoot at him!

It's not a matter of if it'll work or not, it's a matter of there is no immediate logical reasons not to do so. You can avoid chasing him to avoid getting divided up, you can focus more on Qrow's injuries, and so on, but the immediate best move is to attack, Tyrian shows his skills once more as he escapes and, say, dodges bullets or whatever, then decide to not pursue. It's just a little touch that portrays them as just a little smarter about combat and proactive as opposed to just standing there like statues.

Improving as an author, one video at a time.

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