Slightly unrelated, but I feel like edge is one of those terms that has essentially reached meaninglessness from overuse, and is pretty much a generic complaint against seriousness in something light-hearted, rather than actual meaning anything, like how Mary Sue or other such terms have become completely worthless.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/lb_i.php?lb_id=13239183440B34964700 Alfric's Fire Emblem Liveblog Encyclopedia!I will always disagree with the notion that overusing a term can make it completely lose meaning, because there will still be examples where the original meaning would apply.
With that said, calling the RWBY music edgy is definitely inaccurate. It certainly has Mood Whiplash with the show (until the last part of Volume 3, and even then it's still probably darker than the show delivered), but dark is not the same thing as edgy.
Meaninglessness was probably the wrong term. More accurately, it's the sort of overuse that leads to it being misapplied frequently enough that it becomes something of a buzzword.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/lb_i.php?lb_id=13239183440B34964700 Alfric's Fire Emblem Liveblog Encyclopedia!Divide is about how everything's going to die horribly and you can't stop it even if you fight as hard as you can. When It Falls is about failing the people relying on you to protect them. Time To Say Goodbye is about being forced to abandon the innocence of childhood because you're under attack by deadly enemies. Die is about hate defeating love and good things passing from the world because people choose revenge and chaos instead. (Also, the name of the song is Die.)
The fact that these are uptempo rock/pop songs with lyrics about GRRR MISERY FAILURE AND SUFFERING just reeks of edge.
Now, it's fair to point out that not every song in the entire series is like that. But a lot of them — especially prominent ones, like the opening and ending themes — definitely are.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Taken together the soundtrack deliberately contrast despair, hatred, and Revenge Before Reason with a sort of Anti-Nihilist outlook on life. Which I think is the whole point.
edited 20th Dec '16 8:44:15 AM by CaptainCapsase
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Case in point the new opeing is that while the world is harsh and not a fairy tail, it will get better and the answer is just live.
On the other hand I do agree the show take to damn long to get into the darker an edger path, I blame season 2 for that.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"I could go into specific problems I have with this, but instead I'll just state the more general problem I have with your theory: it's putting Ozpin and Salem on the exact same level, seemingly by trying to look at Ozpin in the worst possible light and Salem as this misunderstood person who just went too far.
Yes, we don't know the entire story, yes, Ozpin probably was (intentionally or not) responsible for something super bad. That does not by any margin equate what Salem is doing now and has been doling likely for hundreds of years to then.
Anyway...I've never really had a problem with RWBY songs' edginess because they're mostly character songs and it's fitting a lot of the time. "Divide" is a personal message to Ozpin, "Caffeine" is from a bunch of showing teenagers going on about how awesome they are. Looked through that light, it makes a lot of sense.
My issue has never been with edginess, so much with...how on the nose the lyrics can be sometimes.
This interpretation paints Ozpin as a halfhearted Atoner who simply hasn't been able to bring himself to make the ultimate sacrifice for the greater good, and Salem as something of a Tragic Villain out for revenge regardless of the cost or the consequences. I'm quite confident that the latter prediction will be true to some extent, and Ozpin almost certainly has a lot to answer for, even if his efforts to atone are wholehearted and genuine.
Edit: And as I mentioned earlier, it's not just the villain songs that make Ozpin look suspicious, a fair number of the "hero" perspective songs muse about whether everything they're fighting for is a lie, and whether they're just pawns in somebody else's battle. He's definitely hiding some Awful Truths, and even if he's really doing his best to atone, he's still staining his hands with questionable deeds.
edited 20th Dec '16 10:44:20 AM by CaptainCapsase
So, what, every war ever? They're "pawns" in that most Huntsmen and Huntresses never find out where the Grimm come from, or who Salem is, or any of that.
Most of them don't know, and most of them never will know. It can be debated if that's the right call or not. And this obviously is a personal struggle, at least on her end.
The exact significance of that lyrical foreshadowing won't be clear until we learn the truth about Ozpin and Salem; it might be a fairly cut and dry deal, but the emphasis on self-doubt and questioning one's cause make me think there's going to be some massive Reveals that completely change the dynamic of the story, at least in regards to the heroes side.
Everything points to there being a large number of Awful Truths about the setting (and about Ozpin himself) yet to be revealed, from the lyrics to the WOR segments to the cryptic dialogue between those who are "in the know" about what's going on. They may turn out to be over-hyped and inconsequential, but I'm going to give the writers the benefit of the doubt here and assume they're building to suitably world shattering revelations.
edited 20th Dec '16 10:53:54 AM by CaptainCapsase
I don't think anyone has questioned that we don't know a lot and when we find out it's going to be big and bad.
I've been questioning (and maybe others) your huge leaps to make the story complicated in ways I really don't get the impression the writers actually want to based on, well, everything about the show.
If the revelation of an Awful Truth doesn't make the story more complicated, the trope has failed to fulfill its narrative function. My "leaps" are so large not because I necessarily think my own is the one true theory of everything, but rather because there's not all that much to go on, and every indication that what we know about the setting now is just the tip of an iceberg. Thus I'm basically taking shots in the dark; we have a good idea that there's some big revelations waiting in the wings, stuff that will contextualize the entire setting, but we're being drip fed in terms of clues and foreshadowing for these Awful Truths.
edited 20th Dec '16 11:16:00 AM by CaptainCapsase
I didn't say there wouldn't be complications, I said there wouldn't be complications the way you want based on the story. Namely that Salem probably isn't going to be some misguided Tragic Villain out to make the world a better place by any means necessary.
As has been pointed out before, this series has a firmly established good and evil side. Everyone on the good side might not be perfect, and everyone on the evil side might not be Pure Evil, but the line between the two is clear.
The White Fang is a prime example, they've done well enough explaining why it is the way it is and that they aren't representative of all the Faunus, but that doesn't change the fact that we're supposed to see them, specifically, as wrong and evil.
So similarly if you're expecting some complex spiel about how Ozpin is really only doing what he's doing for himself and even lying to himself about it, I'd say you should prepare to be disappointed.
Although, at this point I might just be attacking you for your opinions. At which I say, we should probably leave it alone for now.
edited 20th Dec '16 11:55:44 AM by LSBK
I don't necessarily think the villains will turn out to have good intentions, I think that's within the range of possibility, but I also think a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds, Tragic Monster, and/or Fallen Hero angle is quite likely as well; I'm disinclined to think it'll turn out to be a Windmill Crusader rivalry, but rather a hatred built on some very legitimate grievances. They've built up a personal relationship between the Big Bad and the Big Good, and implied that the latter has done some truly heinous things in his past, and even now stains his hands with Necessary Evil in the pursuit of atonement, to the point where even his staunch allies faith in him is shaken. Putting two and two together makes it all but guaranteed that Ozpin's dark past is responsible for Salem being the way she is, whatever that even means.
My point isn't necessarily that the morality of the conflict will be complicated; more that the key players involved will very likely be more complicated characters than they appear at a cursory glance.
edited 20th Dec '16 11:39:53 AM by CaptainCapsase
Okay, for those people who have seen the trailer of next week's episode. There's some Nightmare Fuel entries about the trailer. For those that have seen it, is it possible to glean Nightmare Fuel entries from the trailer? I haven't read the entry because I'm refusing to let myself be spoiled before watching the episode, but I did spot the Example Indentation issue, so thought I'd ask.
You won't find me taking that position. My post certainly isn't intended to put Ozpin in the worst light and Salem as misunderstood, especially since I keep arguing with Cap every time I think he's doing that.
I think Ozpin's made some terrible mistakes. I think Salem is a good person who (through one of Ozpin's mistakes) was corrupted and uses Ozpin's mistakes to justify every act of evil she commits. That makes Ozpin The Atoner who takes responsibility for his own actions, and Salem the unrepentant villain, who refuses to take responsibility for her own actions.
In most stories where I've seen this dynamic, The Atoner uses assumes too much share of the blame while the villain assumes too little.
My point is that Ozpin wants one kind of future, Salem wants another kind of future, and there's even a split between Ozpin and Ironwood over how best to achieve a certain kind of future. Once Ruby understands the full picture, her solution will not be dictated by any of the players, hence Take a Third Option. Even if she ends up achieving whatever Ozpin's goals are, she won't do it his way - not because I'm putting him in the worst possible light but because she's the hero and her solution will simply be "better" than anything anyone's previously tried.
If anything, given the way he references the "honest soul" in the pilot narration, someone who can Take a Third Option may be what he's looking for (given that his reference to a "more honest" soul excludes his and Salem's by implication).
edited 20th Dec '16 3:49:38 PM by Wyldchyld
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Wait, was that from your post? I thought I was quoting something Cap said. Man, it seems I've really been slipping on paying attention lately.
As for the trailer and Nightmare Fuel, I saw it, and I'm going to say any examples based on it is just people doing what they always do: jumping to conclusions and wanting to put down something so they post something under belief that YMMV means their entry can't and shouldn't be questioned at all.
That's fine. I've been losing the plot for a while now. Come join me in my Sanity Slippage corner.
On to something else, was Ren stung by Tyrian? I thought he dodged but I heard someone say he got stung and that's why he was on the ground with Nora.
Which if so clears up a bit of the problem I had with the fight, at the end it just seemed like Tean JNR were just going to let Ruby get taken out even though none of them were particularly hurt. I mean, that's still a problem with Jaune, but, it's somewhat lessened.
@LSBK: In regards to Jaune, he's kind of slow compared to the other people on RNJR, and it's not clear where he was in relation to Tyrian and Ruby when she was incapacitated. Plus I think it's quite possible he was having a flashback to the death of another friend he was powerless to prevent.
@LSBK and Wyldchyld: Now in regards to the earlier conversation, as I said, I'm mostly just spit-balling here; I usually don't engage in particularly out there WMGs, but in this case the show has heavily telegraphed that everything* we think we know about the setting and the story is a lie. Until the Awful Truth starts coming out, we can only guess what that entails, and look for foreshadowing that may or may not be real.
* Okay probably not EVERYTHING, but I get the distinct impression what we know so far is only the tip of the iceberg in relation to what we don't know.
edited 21st Dec '16 8:48:31 AM by CaptainCapsase
Pretty sure it is just the tip of the iceberg. We don't know much more about the Maidens than what Pyrrha was told (a bit more, but not much). What has been brushed under the carpet (because the relevant person isn't in a position to pursue it, and the others don't know about it) is that Pyrrha was told that she would be given the much more information when she agreed to take the Maiden's role. Qrow was very clear in indicating that she'd been given only a small amount of information and that they didn't want to say any more until she was "in".
So, yeah, there's an awful lot we don't know - even ignoring the signs that the Benevolent Conspiracy don't know the full truth about everything themselves (and the indication that Ironwood may know much less than Qrow does — and my guess that Qrow doesn't know as much as Raven), the Benevolent Conspiracy clearly knows much more than the audience has so far been told.
edited 21st Dec '16 2:10:32 PM by Wyldchyld
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Honestly, I'm not a fan of most of the music in RWBY. The style doesn't much appeal to me and there's so much edge in the lyrics it's a miracle it hasn't cut itself yet.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.