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unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#42676: Dec 11th 2016 at 8:37:33 PM

" She hasn't talked to Ironwood to see if there's anything she can do to help. She hasn't decided to attend Atlas's academy to continue her huntress training. She hasn't tried to convince her family to put the Schnee's considerable personal resources toward any useful projects. Even stuck in Atlas, she has options, but she hasn't pursued any of them."

I dont think Ironwood can do much(hell, Im surprisng he have a job after that monumental screw up, he should been blacklisted on EVERYTHING), going to Atlas is going to put her in the military and that is out of the question and convince Jaques?....yeah no.

Remenber, Volume 3 put Yang,Weiss and Blake back to square one so they can have their character devolpment, she is just seen how shallow the whole thing was.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#42677: Dec 11th 2016 at 9:24:20 PM

The problem with Qrow's arrival is that if he's been off doing other things, then we have the issue that whatever it is Ruby and company are traveling to do, he could have done for them. If he's got the time to be flying back and forth across a continent keeping an eye on them, he's got the time to fly to their destination, do whatever needs doing, and then tell Ruby to come home. His very presence makes she and her allies irrelevant.

In other news we are halfway through the season and nothing seems to have happened.

edited 11th Dec '16 9:24:35 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#42678: Dec 11th 2016 at 10:20:55 PM

[up] Oh my sweet summer child, try Deep Space Nine for "nothing has happen this season" (only to be blown away later). In reality stuff is happening.

  • We know that Laughing boy is a fanus and we saw proof that non-mammal fanus exist.
  • Weiss is getting ready for her Calling the Old Man Out arc.
    • Weiss, her eyes opened: before she was the spoiled rich girl who saw the other kingdoms as just points on a map. Had she gone to Atlas or stayed by her father's side she would have said that Vale/Beacon "deserved it". Instead she sees that Atlas is part of the problem. Not just the fanus issue, Atlas is They Just Didn't Care the Kingdom and her daddy is it's king. He's either a coward (afraid of losing SDC in the coming war) or he's utterly clueless and is only thinking of his ledger. That Alpha Bitch with too much sauce triggered Weiss's power.
  • Ironwood stuck up for Weiss instead of "Lock up the crazy girl!", he sees the problem in Atlas and the potential in Weiss. But since she's not a student/soldier under his command-he can't do anything. Yet.

I don't know what to make of Salem and her merry band of shadows. One the one hand I suspect that wild mass guessSalem is a huntress who was corrupted. Hence she has former hunters working for her, she knew them or their families.

If, on the other hand, she's some kind of Grimm in human form, then she formed her "council" to spy on the world and turn Remnant on itself. Like Sauruman and the shadows, she's pitting the Fanus and the kingdoms against each other. The better to salt the meat for her critters.

Either way it's a bunch of fanatics who sided with a dark force thinking they could "lick the spoon" as it where when she's done stirred things up and finally come to power.

edited 13th Dec '16 12:26:40 AM by TairaMai

I tried to walk like an Egyptian and now I need to see a Cairo practor....
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#42679: Dec 11th 2016 at 10:27:33 PM

Oh my sweet summer child, try Deep Space Nine for "nothing has happen this season" (only to be blown away later). In reality stuff is happening.

Thanks for the contempt. Hilariously, nothing you just described qualifies as "stuff is happening". To pick just one example, Tyrian turning out to be a faunus is not "stuff happening" since it does not advance the plot. In fact it doesn't even advance our knowledge of Tyrian. So he's a faunus. That matters why? That moves the story forward how?

None of the other stuff you mentioned moves the plot either. We got more cryptic nonsense about Ren's backstory, five minutes of Weiss being surrounded by morons, and a fight. None of this moves the story any closer to its conclusion, except maybe Qrow's arrival at the end of the battle with Tyrian.

VutherA Since: Jul, 2009
#42680: Dec 11th 2016 at 10:29:03 PM

@unknowning Ya know, I think you got a pretty good point about Ironwood - how does he keep on his authority? There's no implication he ever really abuses it (plus the writers said he's entirely well-meaning too), but the trouble at Beacon and causing the very-important Schnee Corp to lose money by a probably-significant degree (considering Jacques' fury) would definitely at least cause discontented murmurs in the Council. Calling everyone at the ball non-sensical can't help there for sure. Of course, we can't actually see the Council, but you might be barking up the right tree for Ironwood's situation later on...Or maybe he just saved all their lives or something once so they'll only stop backing him if he shot up an orphanage and devoured the children.

edited 11th Dec '16 10:30:56 PM by VutherA

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#42681: Dec 11th 2016 at 10:30:16 PM

I understand Ambar's point, and even agree with it, I'm just not bothered with it yet.

I've liked them establishing the new normal and things are picking up now. So long as they stay that way and don't slow down significantly I'm good, though I understand why some people are annoyed.

TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#42682: Dec 11th 2016 at 10:51:50 PM

The problem with rushing things is that the arc and the season can become a mess. JMS had to rush Babylon Five season 4 due to the PTEN dissolving. Fair enough. But when season 5 picked up, having blown is wad in 4 and losing his notes, his rushed arc with the telepath filler is regarded as "filler" at best and weak at worst. Poor Robin Atikin Downs got some utter crap for lines and scenes (season 1 TNG bad) due to the issues with producing the arc. The X-files: the arc, such as it was, suffered between Chris Carter winging it and the monster of the week formula. Star Trek Enterprise and an entire 3 seasons full of a "are they seriously going to wrap this arc up or what?". By the time the series did get to the freakin' point-it was canceled. A failure so bad that we needed 2009 for the reboot.

Not every episode can be a Wham Episode, not every show is going to be LOST in arcs and subplots.

Many good series get bogged down by either filler (too much side plot) or arcs (Arc Fatigue drives off the fans)-RWBY isn't one of them.

Give the arc some time. The fall of Beacon could have taken two volumes instead of just 3. And there are a lot of plot threads to resolve. Like I said about trying to bring back Roman or Penny - arcs need to flow and make sense. Rushing things only makes it worse than taking too long.

The first two seasons were helmed by the creator (RIP) and the current team seems to be doing a bang up job of keeping the same pace.

Don't get me wrong, I love a good short series. Outlaw Star did very well despite only having a handful of eps. Firefly was pure awesome strangled by a network too stupid to know what it had.

I tried to walk like an Egyptian and now I need to see a Cairo practor....
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#42683: Dec 11th 2016 at 11:09:18 PM

So, it's only slow compared to its usual pace...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#42684: Dec 11th 2016 at 11:28:09 PM

[up]I can't agree with that, using Volume 3 as a comparison we didn't get a whole lot of plot progression in the first half, most of the screen time was taken up by the tournament fights. I'd say they are even with overall plot advancement, with Volume 3 filling in the rest with mostly tournament fights and volume 4 with character moments.

Prime_of_Perfection Where force fails, cunning prevails Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Where force fails, cunning prevails
#42685: Dec 11th 2016 at 11:37:15 PM

The problem right now with progress is summed up with Four Lines, All Waiting. It's one reason I'm not as fond of having too many characters split up or Loads And Loads Of Characters in smaller works.

Basically, it's too ambitious for what it is.

Improving as an author, one video at a time.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#42686: Dec 11th 2016 at 11:41:57 PM

That's the problem I thought people would bring up, but no one got into any specifics.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#42687: Dec 11th 2016 at 11:59:04 PM

I still say that the problem with splitting Team RWBY up is the Four Lines, All Waiting trope. And that we are constantly shifting focus between RNJR, Weiss and Atlas, Black Sun, and Yang.

Speaking of Atlas, people that hail from it that I like:

  • Weiss
  • Winter
  • Ironwood

People that hail from it that I despise:

  • Everyone else

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#42688: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:29:08 AM

"A man's reach should exceed his grasp or what's a heaven for" to which Sf Debris would replay "Think your ideas through".

RWBY is ambitious. We could have had a "Oh those Roman and Neo, what hijnks will they get up to in season 7" show. Or we could have had a rushed mess.

As it stands it's slow compared to short anime series, but compared to long western Sci-fi series it's okay.

edited 12th Dec '16 7:23:32 AM by TairaMai

I tried to walk like an Egyptian and now I need to see a Cairo practor....
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#42689: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:52:11 AM

I've always felt that RWBY tried to be emulate Long Runner anime series without anything close to the number of episodes those series have to actually develop shit.

The formula for past seasons has kind of been "first half do nothing, second half race to the end". If this is another 12 episode volume expect things to pick up I guess.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#42690: Dec 12th 2016 at 6:34:14 AM

That's kind of the point though. The White Fang used to be a good group about uplifting and helping the Faunus, but now they're really just about tearing humans down.
Which would mean it makes sense for some of their members to be the "old guard" like Blake, who are dissatisfied with the new direction White Fang has taken and wants to see them return to their original vision, no?

Hasn't it been the reverse? So far all we've seen is Weiss under her father's thumb, and according to Ironwood the academy isn't reopened yet.
Things we've seen Weiss doing: wandering aimlessly around her family's mansion moping, rejecting Ironwood's offer to attend Atlas's academy, sing at a charity event at her father's insistence, self-righteously rant at socialites attending said event. She hasn't tried to do anything useful. She hasn't been continuing her training on her own. She hasn't attempted to leave and make it back to Vale (or anywhere else) on her own.

She hasn't even tried to do anything productive, she's just sulked about being dragged home from Beacon.

The problem with Qrow's arrival is that if he's been off doing other things, then we have the issue that whatever it is Ruby and company are traveling to do, he could have done for them. If he's got the time to be flying back and forth across a continent keeping an eye on them, he's got the time to fly to their destination, do whatever needs doing, and then tell Ruby to come home. His very presence makes she and her allies irrelevant.
Pretty much this. I've questioned why Crow wasn't just doing what he sent Ruby to do in the first place, and the fact that he's babysitting RNJR instead of off doing something else just reinforces the question. The only way I can see that making any sense is if he's trying to give them some extra hands-on training while still making sure that they don't get themselves killed, but if that's the case, he should be pushing more grimm at them, not clearing the way for them on the sly.

I really can't see any Watsonian reason for Crow's behavior. (The Doylist reason, of course, is "so RNJR can do things".)

In reality stuff is happening.
It's really not. They're (presumably/hopefully) laying the groundwork for stuff to happen in the future. But so far, stuff has almost completely failed to happen. The only difference between where we are now and where we were at the end of season 3 is Ruby being under attack, Blake having arrived in Menagerie, and Yang deciding to stop moping. That's not much going on for six episodes into the season.

Give the arc some time.
It's had six episodes. They could have covered what they've covered so far in half that time. You can drop everything involving RNJR except the Jaune training scene and the stuff from the most recent episode without losing anything important. You can drop the Blake-on-a-boat bits and just have Sun following her as a Kingdom Hearts refugee in Menagerie. You can pick up with Yang's story when she decides to get back in action instead of having a bunch of "yep, Yang is still sad" stuff until she's suddenly ready to get back in the action. Weiss's stuff is harder to tell what's important and what's fluff because I have no idea where her arc is headed, but so far it feels like a waste of time rather than a setup that leaves me wanting more.

We could have had a "Oh those Roman and Neo, what hijnks will they get up to in season 7" show.
I would be entirely okay with that. Roman is still the most interesting antagonist in the series by a long shot.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#42691: Dec 12th 2016 at 7:21:12 AM

It's had six episodes. They could have covered what they've covered so far in half that time.

Given that the entire series was written at the spur of the moment, what we have is awesome compared to what other series did. Star Trek The Next Generation took 3 seasons to find it's footing-to the point that even fans find huge tracts of season 1 & 2 unwatchable.

The problem with formula is that it becomes habit and then habit driven series become stale -see Sf Debris and The Agony Booth on Star Trek Voyager.

The writers could have taken longer but Qrow and Tyrian made their appearance at the halfway point in the series.

It's had six episodes. They could have covered what they've covered so far in half that time.

Reality Ensues - team RNJR is still a bunch of high school aged kids. Against Tyrian or Raven's band they would lose very badly. Not every episode has to have a huge fight scene. Again, the flow of episodes has to make sense, and there are still six more episodes to go.

Given that Rooster Teeth has a lot going on, it's great that RWBY gets the attention that is does.

Nickelodeon screwed with The Legend Of Korra because, Sponge Bob is popular so it gets more money. FOX cancled Firefly, TNT screwed over the Babylon Five spinoff Crusade - the list is 'yuge.

RWBY seems to be going in the right direction for where it's at. We could have gotten a rushed messy conclusion or The Chris Carter Effect. Neither seems to be happeneing.

edited 12th Dec '16 7:31:25 AM by TairaMai

I tried to walk like an Egyptian and now I need to see a Cairo practor....
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#42692: Dec 12th 2016 at 7:24:20 AM

[up]"But other shows are worse!" is not a counterargument to "this show is bad".

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#42693: Dec 12th 2016 at 7:32:36 AM

[up]Yes it is, the show doesn't have the flaws of rushing through things or not knowing where to go. again, six more episodes.

I tried to walk like an Egyptian and now I need to see a Cairo practor....
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#42694: Dec 12th 2016 at 7:33:51 AM

[up][up]That's not the argument being presented. The argument is that plenty of well-renowned series have slow start-ups that end up paying off in the end.

Hell, it hasnt even been that slow. It's about what I'd expect in pacing and it's been filled with stuff happening, even if it isn't all tying up for endgame.

In fact, the issue I take with long running anime series is that while they are fast paced, they usually just end up with incredibly similar and shallow arcs. So if this show isn't doing what those anime are doing then sign me up.

edited 12th Dec '16 7:34:25 AM by EpicBleye

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#42695: Dec 12th 2016 at 7:34:10 AM

[up][up]"The show isn't rushing through things or flailing about aimlessly" is also not a counterargument to "the show is going too slowly and it's boring me".

The argument is that plenty of well-renowned series have slow start-ups that end up paying off in the end.
If RWBY manages to pay off by the end of the season, great. That still doesn't mean that the last six episodes haven't been unnecessarily slow.

In fact, the issue I take with long running anime series is that while they are fast paced, they usually just end up with incredibly similar and shallow arcs. So if this show isn't doing what those anime are doing then sign me up.
Again, "at least it's not doing this bad thing that other shows do" doesn't mean it's not doing something else that's also bad.

edited 12th Dec '16 7:37:27 AM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#42696: Dec 12th 2016 at 7:36:27 AM

well, it depend what you consider move the plot forward, if you think as adding new event this episode have quite a bit: Weiss rebel against is father and made a scene showing any goodwill is go, it reveal Tyran is a faunus not releate to the white fang and more of Ren backstory and so on.

Now if you talk about gonig for point A to point B them no, but here that point is flaw since Cinder is not even in mistral right now.

" She hasn't attempted to leave and make it back to Vale (or anywhere else) on her own."

if that happen then I will question why is in Atlas in the first place

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#42697: Dec 12th 2016 at 7:42:06 AM

[up][awesome] As for why Weiss hasn't left Atlas - something will happen with Wiess but we have to get to that point.

I tried to walk like an Egyptian and now I need to see a Cairo practor....
CountofBleck Starting to believe in himself from New Wirral (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Starting to believe in himself
#42698: Dec 12th 2016 at 7:46:12 AM

I thought it was extremely clear that she was not in Atlas by choice. Also expecting Weiss to just go right back into the fray after the total meltdown in Beacon is way too much. Not even Ironwood expects them to hop straight into it immediately like jesus christ.

Darthwyn leader of Inherit from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
leader of Inherit
#42699: Dec 12th 2016 at 8:47:45 AM

I was certain there was a mention of travel being limited in one of the news reports Yang watched.

Also how plot relevant something is probably subjective up until the plot reinforces that something that was earlier mentioned turned out to be important.

"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - Dorthy
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#42700: Dec 12th 2016 at 8:53:52 AM

Again, "at least it's not doing this bad thing that other shows do" doesn't mean it's not doing something else that's also bad.

Except I don't think it's doing anything bad? That was my point. It's clearly developing characters and developing plot bunnies and setting clockwork in motion. I'm certainly entertained and I can't wait for more things to come.

The plot being slow-moving isn't necessarily a bad thing. Heck, it isn't even moving too terribly slow- for the most part the progression has been natural.

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae

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