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DeanCole Since: Jun, 2015
#42251: Nov 25th 2016 at 6:12:11 PM

'And she doesn't necessarily know Neptune is weak to water, most characters didn't.'

In fairness.Cinder was showed to be collecting info on the students.Its not that hard to accept she came across Neptune fear of water during his time in Beacon.

As for why,Could be to study the students father to know the best way to trick them into causing another accident.

She hit the jackpot with Penny though so the other matches became irreverent

edited 25th Nov '16 6:21:51 PM by DeanCole

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#42252: Nov 25th 2016 at 6:23:28 PM

Ridiculous? Tone down the hyberbole. RWBY's used plenty of plot convenience like this before, I don't see anything that really stands out.

The likelihood of something happening is meaningless in fiction. What works best for the plot is always what happens, coincidence be damned.

AJSthe2nd Since: Jan, 2015
#42253: Nov 25th 2016 at 6:50:33 PM

I don't think Cinder rigged all the matches. Just the ones to get RWBY JNPR her own team and Penny into the final, and have Yang and Mercury fight the first final match so they could make everyone pissed, and Pyrrha and Penny the second to expose Penny and then cause mass panic.

And that was it, because she planned on ruining the tournament at that point so it didn't matter who else made it the final rounds because nobody was actually going to win.

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#42254: Nov 25th 2016 at 7:17:07 PM

I'd probably go with all of the matches being rigged by Cinder to maximise her chances of getting the right people for the job. She can't 100% predict whom each team would put forward (RWBY could have put forward Blake and Ruby for example) and has to leave enough room for unexpected accidents (Yang getting her aura depleted and breaking something) so she's not screwed over by fate, and she only put together the final matchup of Pyrrha and Penny in the second round once she found out Penny was a robot.

So looking at it from that perspective it does make sense that if Cinder was fixing all the matchups from the start of the festival she would try to knock SSSN out early as they don't fit into the final plan.

Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#42255: Nov 25th 2016 at 7:59:00 PM

[up]This

Ridiculous? Tone down the hyberbole.

It's not hyperbole. It's how I really see it.

Yes. The thing that's best for the plot will happen. It's better for the plot for that match to have been decided by Cinder than for it to be a coincidence. The latter implies stupidly bad luck for SSSN. The former implies that someone who has the motivation, and means was screwing with them, just like she was doing elsewhere. Also, it means that Cinder both had backup plans and needed them as not all of them worked. Which means that Cinder won because she was prepared instead of lucky.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#42256: Nov 25th 2016 at 7:59:09 PM

[up][up]Indigo don't fit into her final plan either though. Whoever goes on from that match is totally irrelevant to her.

edited 25th Nov '16 7:59:28 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#42257: Nov 25th 2016 at 8:01:13 PM

[up][up]I mean, in a randomized situation, just being stupidly unlucky is completely possible and probably hoped for, to make the situations more interesting.

BlackSunNocturne Since: Aug, 2013
#42258: Nov 25th 2016 at 8:06:22 PM

[up][up]NDGO was all-female. Cinder knew that the Maidens can only have their power transferred to women. Ergo, she stuck the all-male SSSN against them.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#42259: Nov 25th 2016 at 8:08:18 PM

Here's the video I was talking about for anyone who's interested to report or dislike (or like, I guess).

Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#42260: Nov 25th 2016 at 8:08:52 PM

Indigo don't fit into her final plan either though. Whoever goes on from that match is totally irrelevant to her.

Again, NDGO was an incredibly popular team of all women (and thus are not incapable of becoming maidens) and were more vulnerable to discrediting than SSSN was. I suspect that Cinder was panning to use them if she couldn't get the Yang/Mercury fight to go the way she wanted.

Cinder explicitly had a "list" of students she was targeting. You can't know that NDGO wasn't on the list. It was presumably longer than the three stdents that actually ended up mattering. It probably was a list of the students that would make the best accidents in the final rounds.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#42261: Nov 25th 2016 at 8:10:44 PM

Her goal is to discredit Oz and Atlas by way of Yang, Pyrrha, and Penny. There may well be backup plans, but I really fail to see how Indigo falls into this.

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#42262: Nov 25th 2016 at 8:15:45 PM

Indigo don't fit into her final plan either though. Whoever goes on from that match is totally irrelevant to her.

They didn't fit into her final plan because they lost. The argument is that had they won, depending on who they put forward they could fit one of the roles Cinder needed for her plan as they only settled on using Pyrrha and Penny for it in the second round when Cinder found out Penny was a robot. Prior to that it makes more sense for team evil to have a list of potential huntsmen and huntresses that could fit each role so they were covered in any scenario. Because even if they decided for example to have Yang be the one to cripple Mercury that is entirely dependent on RWBY winning the first two rounds and putting Yang through both rounds to the finals.

Her goal is to discredit Oz and Atlas by way of Yang, Pyrrha, and Penny. There may well be backup plans, but I really fail to see how Indigo falls into this.

Pyrrha and Penny were last-minute changes to the plan as Cinder only discovered that Penny was a robot and thus weak to Pyrrha's polarity during the second rounds. NDGO (being largely undefined in the story) would fall into this by being more variables to put together to get the right outcome. For instance if NDGO put forward the one with all the knives they could work Emerald's illusions to engineer a system where she's up against Pyrrha, has a low aura and throws a whole lot of knives at her only for Pyrrha to release a shockwave that sends them back into her.

This is all speculation, but it does fit a Crazy-Prepared interpretation over Cinder relying on luck for everything to fall into place.

edited 25th Nov '16 8:20:11 PM by Shaoken

Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#42263: Nov 25th 2016 at 8:16:10 PM

No. Her goal is to discredit all the headmasters. This is made clear in her speech. Oz and Ironwood were just the easiest, but Shade's headmaster was third in her list (which is where NDGO comes from), so, if Penny, Pyrrha and Yang didn't work out, using NDGO to discredit Shade was probably one of her backup plans. For goodness sake, Penny and Pyrrha were backup plans that got moved forward after discovering that Penny was a robot which happened after NDGO was knocked out. Even Pyrrha wasn't first on the list. She was added to it. For all we know, NDGO was originally higher priority than Penny and Pyrrha.

EDIT:[up]This.

edited 25th Nov '16 8:17:11 PM by Sereg

Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#42264: Nov 25th 2016 at 9:38:53 PM

The only thing I'm getting out of this conversation is that Cinder's plan was either a Gambit Roulette or she had no plan until she found out about Penny.

Like seriously what was she going to do before Penny entered the picture?

edited 25th Nov '16 9:40:31 PM by Karxrida

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#42265: Nov 25th 2016 at 9:40:57 PM

Pretty much. She didn't really have a specific plan to get to the end goal so much as she was trying to see what combinations of random variables could be exploited the best.

She even comments that Penny will make things much easier than she imagined they would be.

edited 25th Nov '16 9:42:27 PM by LSBK

Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#42266: Nov 25th 2016 at 9:47:32 PM

I just remember that the crappy Volume 2 finale was probably her original plan that got screwed over. So she did have something concrete before things went south and Penny became the plan.

edited 25th Nov '16 9:47:59 PM by Karxrida

Darthwyn leader of Inherit from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
leader of Inherit
#42267: Nov 25th 2016 at 10:21:57 PM

in regards to the breach that was executed off schedule. Emerald I believe mentioned that it was days away from the time it was supposed to actually happen. So I imagine she wanted to make it happen when more teams were away since team JNPR was shown to be heading out on their mission that day.

They also lost most of their additional forces minus the grim which is easy work for huntsman in training, a legion of robots and teachers.

Under better circumstances the plan would probably still fail, but possibly do more damage to the city and ozpin 's reputation. The plan probably kicked into high gear when cinder could hack the atlas robots.

Phyra was probably already part of the plan in regards to the tournament since most oppents would have a metal weapon. Penny just makes it even easier. She probably would have caused phyra to accidentally murder another student before she changed the plan. This is just speculation, but I would not put it past Cinder.

"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - Dorthy
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#42268: Nov 25th 2016 at 10:30:13 PM

Easy to not cause murder...?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Darthwyn leader of Inherit from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
leader of Inherit
#42269: Nov 25th 2016 at 11:04:00 PM

I have no clue what your asking with that question?

"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - Dorthy
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#42270: Nov 25th 2016 at 11:10:50 PM

Having a student kill a robot means no actual murder...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
BlackSunNocturne Since: Aug, 2013
#42271: Nov 25th 2016 at 11:15:40 PM

Except said robot is a sentient being.

Which is still murder (technically manslaughter as you're not intending to actually kill, but details)

Darthwyn leader of Inherit from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
leader of Inherit
#42272: Nov 25th 2016 at 11:18:19 PM

I was speculating on what would have happened if her opponent had not been penny so yes it would probably have been murder if she was given a human oppent.

"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - Dorthy
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#42273: Nov 25th 2016 at 11:22:11 PM

[up][up]It just sounds so much worse...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
VutherA Since: Jul, 2009
#42274: Nov 25th 2016 at 11:51:48 PM

If we say Penny's a sentient being just because she can channel aura then we'd have to say Faunus are people too

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#42275: Nov 25th 2016 at 11:57:58 PM

It might be because the Artificial Intellect thing...but Randomness isn't convinced.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.

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