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Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#42101: Nov 22nd 2016 at 11:10:32 AM

Wait, are we really trying to go "It might not have been totally wrong to slaughter Shion"? And even leaving that out, it's not like Shion is the only place they've done that. The dialogue on both Qrow and Raven's part was clear on how they operate.

I don't think anyone's saying that. It looks like Qrow avoids the tribe because their behaviour and beliefs appal him. It's specifically Shion that I'm suspicious about, and Raven herself.

Then again, there was that weird part of the conversation where Qrow commented about 'we all' need to unite to be stronger together and Raven responds by saying he's the one who left as if she thinks he's talking about the tribe as a whole rather than just his group and Raven specifically. It sounds like Qrow thinks the tribe is necessary for something, despite the tribe being something he clearly doesn't like.

That conversation piques my interest a lot.

She's heavily implied to have been responsible for orphaning Nora and Ren. You gonna tell me that Ren and Nora's parents were "Salem supporters" who deserved to die?

Yes, I did spot the easily noticeable link between the tribe and Ren and Nora's back story. No, I'm not going to discuss how people can jump to conclusions about things other posters haven't said (or even implied) because that's a never-ending discussion from which no good ever comes.

What my post does say is that I do like speculating and I do like taking my time to gather as much information as I can before I come to a fixed conclusion.

"Salem supporters" implies that Salem's existence is actually well known, at least in this context.

It was hyperbole. I could have said 'villains' instead but I was creating a range from the best case scenario ('worst thing I can think of') to the worst-case scenario (Raven slaughters innocents who couldn't fight back). I decided as I wrote the post that the worst thing I can think of isn't going to be generic 'villains' but 'Salem and her supporters', so that's what I wrote. Hence, hyperbole.

On the subject of Salem supporters, however. One interesting thing that did strike me is that Salem's 'supporters' (in the sense of people who are doing her bidding) don't necessarily have to know she even exists. Look at the White Fang. How many White Fang members would know Salem exists, even as they carry out the agendas she's devised and even if Adam is meeting directly with Salem?

I do ask myself how much Adam himself knows about Salem and her existence, given that we saw him dealing with Cinder. We know he's arranged a meeting with Sienna Khan, but we don't know how Salem has that information. Has Adam met with Salem? If so, how much does he know about her? If not, who or what triggered him to arrange the meeting and who then informed Salem about it?

edited 22nd Nov '16 11:31:41 AM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
BlackSunNocturne Since: Aug, 2013
#42102: Nov 22nd 2016 at 11:14:50 AM

Just gonna point this out: Remnant is a borderline Death World outside of the kingdoms. So Raven's "they're weak, and therefore deserve it" mindset makes sense because it'd prevent a long, slow death from the Grimm.

Also: Social Darwinism isn't necessarily a bad thing, jussayin.

DeanCole Since: Jun, 2015
#42103: Nov 22nd 2016 at 11:16:23 AM

To all those insisting Raven will undoubtedly turn out to be a "dark grey" character, oh I have no doubt of that. It's just going to be extremely stupid when they try it
That's a little harsh.For one its actually not that hard to make a decent 'dark grey' character with the Stepup that they got.She still has care's about. (Her tribe.Qrow and Yang to a extent).

Secondly giving a character a back story is not same as 'making the characters actions acceptable'.

edited 22nd Nov '16 11:19:00 AM by DeanCole

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#42104: Nov 22nd 2016 at 11:17:00 AM

@ Wyldchyld, What reason is there to be suspicious of Shion, specifically? It was just another town on the map, Jaune only speaks of the fond memories and not anything it's particularly known form. Neither Qrow or Raven speak of it as if there's something special about it. What reason is there to think that destroying it has some special significance at this time.

I'm not going to make up my mind about Raven right now, but I don't see anything here to believe what happened at Shion was just business as usual for Raven that we're supposed to be appalled by, whatever else she may be doing and cares about.

I'm sure they're going to make her a dark gray character, I just hope they don't make the mistake of going "because she's not totally black she's actually a decent person".

edited 22nd Nov '16 11:21:54 AM by LSBK

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#42105: Nov 22nd 2016 at 11:56:14 AM

The reality is that you can't go around butchering people, but then get Brownie points for being against the apocalypse (or whatever the Hell Salem's end goal is).

You can't? Well, there goes a bunch of tropes from this site then. [lol]

@ Wyldchyld, What reason is there to be suspicious of Shion, specifically? It was just another town on the map, Jaune only speaks of the fond memories and not anything it's particularly known form. Neither Qrow or Raven speak of it as if there's something special about it. What reason is there to think that destroying it has some special significance at this time.

It's a gut instinct based on the conversation Qrow and Raven are having. Parts of their conversation struck me as weird and triggered a 'hang on, I've seen this sort of thing in other stories' feeling.

If you bear with me, I'll try and summarise how some of my thoughts went during the scene:

Qrow mentions that they'd be stronger together if they all worked together. Raven responds by saying he's the one who left, that the tribe raised them (my question: how did Qrow's emphasis of "all of us" result in Raven talking about Qrow's relationship with the tribe - does that "all of us" mean the tribe as well as Raven? It's a weird turn in the conversation, and makes me a little suspicious).

When Raven says Qrow turned his back on them, Qrow says they 'were' killers and thieves and Raven says they 'were' Qrow's family. When Qrow insults her (she has a very skewed perception of 'family'), she seems to react emotionally (frustrated, angry, a mix of the two, haven't quite decided), jumping to her feet and declaring she leads the tribe 'now'.

Yes, the use of 'were' and 'now' in the conversation pique my interest.

Raven declares that, as leader, she will do everything in her power to ensure their survival (she says 'our survival'). Qrow responds that he saw, that the people of Shion saw, too (my question was - what did Shion have that the tribe needed for their survival - I'm not ignoring the WoR segment, I'm asking which aspect of survival was relevant when Shion was attacked). She says the weak die, the strong live, those are the rules. Qrow says she certainly has someone strong on her side - he's seen the damage. Raven promptly responds to that by saying they couldn't have known the Grimm would set in as quickly as they did (my question - there's a 'usual' time frame for Grimm attacks on raided villages? Why would the speed of Grimm attack on Shion be relevant? And why is does she think her Grimm response is a relevant answer to his comment about having some strong on her side that Qrow's seen the damage from?).

Then he hits the clanger - he's not talking about the Grimm (which seems to alarm her slightly). He adds he's also not talking about her, so she changes the conversation completely and tries to end it. But not before we get the idea that, for some reason, Raven might know where the Spring Maiden is.

It's the way the conversation flowed that triggered my interest and made me ask questions. I think there's something about Shion we don't know. That doesn't mean I'm automatically thinking the village deserved what happened to them. I'm saying I'm wondering if there's a plot-relevant reason for it happening beyond the obvious - either the reason they were attacked or the way the destruction happened may be significant.

Like I said, I'm not jumping to conclusions, but it did make me ask questions. I'm not seeking to answer them right now, but I'm adding them to the pile of questions I already have.

edited 22nd Nov '16 11:59:32 AM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
FergardStratoavis A Fluff Ringer from Bellveins (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
A Fluff Ringer
#42106: Nov 22nd 2016 at 12:03:25 PM

Regardless of whether she's a villain, a hero or even this dark gray character, she made her worldview clear.

She might not be personally responsible for what happened to Shion, but the implication is that the people under her command still raided it. Explaining that "oh but Grimm don't show up that fast" is bull though. Of course Grimm would show up, of course they don't do so under a strict timetable. She doesn't feel much remorse for the sack anyway; more of indignance that those meddling Grimm broke the rule that's not there.

TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#42107: Nov 22nd 2016 at 12:12:42 PM

I still haven't seen the episode, but I guess if I have to say anything right now, I hope that she doesn't turn out to be pretentious. As in "I am right, and you thinking anyway else is wrong, and you are stupid for thinking like this". I really hate pretentious characters, especially when it comes to them saying that they are right about something, no matter how questionable their views are.

Also, has RT really said anything about Neo in the past? Sort of to expand on my previous pondering about her.

edited 22nd Nov '16 12:13:45 PM by TPPR10

Only sometimes posts
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#42108: Nov 22nd 2016 at 1:45:20 PM

[up] Well, you'll have to watch the episode to decide whether or not she's being pretentious.

The only thing I know of that the creators have said is that Neo has an illusion-type Semblance... which isn't the same thing as saying it's definitely an illusion Semblance. Oh, and we know her design was inspired by a cosplayer who had created a female gender Roman Torchwick costume.

edited 22nd Nov '16 1:49:15 PM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#42109: Nov 22nd 2016 at 1:53:06 PM

[up] Alright. The reason why I ask about Neo is that if they decided to get rid of Roman because he wasn't going to really work further along, then why should they keep Neo around? Like if there were never plans for there to be Neo-like character (unless there was and she was refitted to fit with Roman), then why should be around any further than she has?

Only sometimes posts
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#42110: Nov 22nd 2016 at 2:44:40 PM

Good question. Don't have a clue what the answer is. tongue

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#42111: Nov 22nd 2016 at 2:51:56 PM

With Raven, it look she is the dark grey chararter of the series, the one who do awfull thing by a greater good, I dont think she will trouble the heroes but she is clearly a piece of work.

Also, it seen she did not care to much that side of her family: Yang,Taiyang and I dont think she even care about Ruby(Unless she know something about the silver eyes warrior, probably not) as I thought, Raven is dark version of Yang: Ruthless, somewhat violent and careless, more bound by her own code and nothing else(which is funny Qrow said is bad consider he dosent give a shit about anyone else code)

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#42112: Nov 22nd 2016 at 3:03:17 PM

I'm afraid that this is something I have to agree with Ambar on. Social Darwinism is automatically bad IMO, being on a Death World doesn't mean the weak have no right to survive and being the lessor of two evils doesn't change the fact that you are one of the two evils.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#42113: Nov 22nd 2016 at 3:11:58 PM

So back to archive binge of the thread, and the last volume finale: yeah, it's really good I wasn't around for that. A lot of people's (over)reactions would have driven me up the wall.

Some interesting discussion sprinkled in there, though, and it's interesting to see what some of you expected to happen in the coming (now present) volume. Noticeably, a lot of people from then are gone now.

Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#42114: Nov 22nd 2016 at 3:25:47 PM

You mean the "everything is dark and terrible" reactions? Yeah.

VoidsEmpathy Emissary of the Void from Realm of In-Between Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: A heart full of love
Emissary of the Void
#42115: Nov 22nd 2016 at 3:26:57 PM

If you guys check Gray's post on the website, you'll see a schedule change due to CRWBY needing to take time off for Thanksgiving and the holidays...

This week we get another Wo R. Dec. 3 we get episode 5 and Dec.10 is number 6.....with 6 being the halfway mark in Vol. 4.

Source: here!

[DATA LOST]
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#42116: Nov 22nd 2016 at 3:28:00 PM

[up][up]Yeah. I wouldn't have been able to stand all the "everyone who was killed should be brought back to life" and "no one should ever die again, ever" and all the rest.

Like, I don't want to story to be like that all the time, but I'm glad they said it can and sometimes will go there.

edited 22nd Nov '16 3:28:33 PM by LSBK

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#42117: Nov 22nd 2016 at 3:28:31 PM

[up][up]how bad she is depend in how active her social darwinism is: ether is active and atack village to cut the weak or pasive and is just unconcern about other

[up]If I remember well, I said a) Yang was probably grow more violent or a least rude(non happening),b) Ironwood would lose all(No happening again) or c) a special grimm will chase Ruby and the other(maybe will happen?)

Yeah, as I see, a lot of prediction fail because the show is more lighter and softer than last season

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#42118: Nov 22nd 2016 at 3:32:15 PM

Guess: Haven head is a woman and Pyrrha's mother.

Because.

tongue

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
VutherA Since: Jul, 2009
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#42120: Nov 22nd 2016 at 3:39:22 PM

I want Tyrian to completely wreck Team RNJR. Qrow can get involved and maybe we can get an explanation on why he's been shadowing them instead of just going along normally.

Darthwyn leader of Inherit from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
leader of Inherit
#42121: Nov 22nd 2016 at 3:43:42 PM

I assume part of it probably has to do with his current duties and keeping them out of the loop while keeping an eye on ruby since he probably figured her silver eyes will draw attention of the real threat.

"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - Dorthy
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#42122: Nov 22nd 2016 at 3:45:44 PM

Oh yeah, and seeing her actually working on getting a hold over the eye powers would be much appreciated. I can't help but feel she hasn't really been doing anything with that.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#42123: Nov 22nd 2016 at 3:47:30 PM

She hasn't...no progress at all with secret super power?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#42124: Nov 22nd 2016 at 3:47:45 PM

I really don't like the schedule this show has. Another break only for two more episodes before a hiatus for the rest of the year.

Just Makima.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#42125: Nov 22nd 2016 at 3:52:02 PM

[up][up]she barely understand got they active so....no.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

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