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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#41877: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:43:32 PM

Thas very basic, worthy of cringe.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#41879: Nov 13th 2016 at 6:20:24 PM

You mean Barbara right?

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
VutherA Since: Jul, 2009
#41880: Nov 13th 2016 at 6:28:35 PM

Depends on the limbs you've got in mind.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#41881: Nov 13th 2016 at 6:47:33 PM

Given Raven also has those unusual portals, I am of the belief that "magic" is more widespread than the maidens and Raven and Qrow can shapeshift due to that.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#41882: Nov 13th 2016 at 7:10:22 PM

Raven's portals seem to be created by her swords, which would make them a standard Dust-enhanced Semblance.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#41883: Nov 13th 2016 at 7:13:31 PM

I disagree, they look identical to the marks on the ground Cinder made during the fight with Amber. I think there are other sources of power out there that are wielded by the bigger players.

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#41884: Nov 13th 2016 at 9:40:37 PM

I'd have to support magic being responsible for Raven's portals over Dust, as there is no precedence that dust portals exist in the setting. The sword might be a focus for the portals though.

Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#41885: Nov 13th 2016 at 9:44:01 PM

If the portal isn't her Semblance, then it has to be magic because I seriously doubt Dust would be capable of doing that (too much of an easily-accessible Story-Breaker Power otherwise). I also concur that the sword was likely the focus object.

edited 13th Nov '16 9:44:22 PM by Karxrida

TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#41886: Nov 13th 2016 at 10:15:28 PM

There are two questions about "magic":

  • Who can perform magic? If Penny can use an aura/semblence does that mean anyone can?

  • Raven having a portal semblence isn't that big of a deal. Frankly I'm surprised that it took that long. A power like that would make being a hunter/huntress easier.

Now because the "magic" of the world seems to concentrate in certain people, that's why Salem has Cinder use the beetle!grimm.

Like the Wicked Witch and water, there is something to the semblence and how it's used that makes Salem and her allies vulnerable to various powers. Cinder's vulnerable to the "silver eyes" nuke, grimm are vulnerable to either fire power or special attacks.

If anyone could use magic, Salem would be the traditional "collect Maguffins and gather my power" villain. And beetle!grimm would be unnecessary.

Salem is making targeted attacks. I think that her "associates" are hunters that she turned. What better way to protect yourself from hunters than by having'em in your corner.

No need to do that if everyone could use magic: just do the rituals at the right time or whatevers.

Given how semblance and dust work, Salem is playing various groups against each other:

  • Cinder kills the maidens and thins the ranks of the hunters by stealing semblance and undermind the academies from within (until foiled by team RWBY). Salem plays off Cinder's lust for power. In traditional "magic" works, that would be Salem's job, here she has Cinder do the grunt work.

  • The White Fang are useful in wrecking the kingdoms and keeping Atlas' military tied down. Sowing despair all while promised revenge and bribed by dust. If Salem could just magic enough grimm why ally with them?

  • Salem's faction is both the Mouth of Sauron and her generals. Why need underlings if you could just muster enough magic?

There is some connection to dust and semblence that allows only a select few to get enough power to fight most grimm without heavy ordinance.

edited 14th Nov '16 7:30:58 PM by TairaMai

I tried to walk like an Egyptian and now I need to see a Cairo practor....
Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#41887: Nov 14th 2016 at 12:41:38 AM

There are two questions about "magic": • Who can perform magic? If Penny can use an aura/semblence does that mean anyone can?

Aura's are something that all living things have, but are explicitly not magic. So far we only know two kinds of magic; that which empowers the four maidens and the silver eyed warriors. The former is limited to four people at a time (except for when Cinder stole half of Amber's power where we had two people with half of the fall maiden's power) and is something that is passed from host to host. It has it's own set of convoluted rules determining who inherits the power but the only people who can use it are the ones who are chosen or who use Cinder's trick and steal it. We don't know much about the Silver Eyed warriors, but from Qrow's description anyone who has silver eyes (a rare trait according to him) has this power.

Raven having a portal semblence isn't that big of a deal. Frankly I'm surprised that it took that long. A power like that would make being a hunter/huntress easier.

Raven having portals is a huge deal. As both the show and various World of Remnant specials have shown traveling between cities is dangerous due to the creatures of Grimm that lurk between them. This doesn't change even if you use a vehicle as we have seen land, air and sea Grimm that can pose a threat to any vehicle in the right circumstances. If Raven can create portals she can completely bypass the Grimm and all natural barriers to get to her destination, depending on the range of the portals she could cross vast differences in a fraction of the time. It's taken RNJR between 6-8 months to make it from Vale into Mistral and they are still not close to their end goal of Haven, portals would make that trip faster and safer.

Like the Wicked Witch and water, there is something to the semblence and how it's used that makes Salem and her allies vulnerable to various powers. Cinder's vulnerable to the "silver eyes" nuke, grimm are vulnerable to either fire power or special attacks.

The Silver Eyes aren't semblance related (as the rule is that characters only have one and Ruby's is confirmed to be her speed), and Grimm are no less vulnerable to fire power or special attacks than any other living creature.

If anyone could use magic, Salem would be the traditional "collect Maguffins and gather my power" villain. And beetle!grimm would be unnecessary.

So far the only people who can use magic are the four maidens (with their own rules for who gets the power) and the silver eyed warriors (who just have to be born with a rare trait).

Salem is making targeted attacks. I think that her "associates" are hunters that she turned. What better way to protect yourself from hunters than by having'em in your corner.

No need to do that if everyone could use magic: just do the rituals at the right time or whatevers.

She has a legion of Grimm at her literal command, and huntsmen and huntresses is just a catch-all phrase for those who can fight the Grimm and aren't soldiers.

Magic is also explicitly not something anyone can just pick up and do; the only two kinds of magic both require a component that is largely out of the person's control.

Cinder kills the maidens and thins the ranks of the hunters by stealing semblance and undermind the academies from within (until foiled by team RWBY). Salem plays off Cinder's lust for power. In traditional "magic" works, that would be Salem's job, here she has Cinder do the grunt work.

Cinder is not stealing semblances, she's specifically stealing the maiden's power. Wether or not a person can take someone else's semblance and aura is still an unknown. We know from Penny that a semblance can be transferred but we have no idea how that would work with a living host.

The White Fang are useful in wrecking the kingdoms and keeping Atlas' military tied down. Sowing despair all while promised revenge and bribed by dust. If Salem could just magic enough grimm why ally with them?

The White Fang aren't currently engaged with Atlas' military (and from the way the story is involving it's likely they never will be, the plan appears to turn the other kingdoms on Atlas and have them do the grunt work). Salem is dividing mankind (that includes humanity and faunus) because when they are united they can overcome any obstacle, as her two monologues in volumes 1 and 3 attest to.

Salem's faction is both the Mouth Of Saruon and her generals. Why need underlings if you could just muster enough magic?

Perhaps you should actually define by what you mean by magic, because this point doesn't make any sense. In every fiction I've read where magic is involved the Big Bad always has underlings even if they are one of the most powerful magic users in that setting.

There is some connection to dust and semblence that allows only a select few to get enough power to fight most grimm without heavy ordinance.

Not really, dust powers the technology man uses and can be activated either by aura or technology while semblances are extensions of a person's aura that are unlocked through training and focus. There is no connection that would explain why some can fight most Grimm without an army at their back; Jaune uses no dust with is weapons or fighting and is a capable combatant through training. I also wouldn't say "only a select few" as Cardin is shown taking care of Grimm during Volume 3 with no apparently difficulty. The real barrier is the training involved to become a huntsman or huntress; everybody has the potential to manifest a semblance but it's something that has to be actively sought out rather.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#41888: Nov 14th 2016 at 8:46:25 AM

So I finally got around to watch the episode. After the thread spent about seven pages arguing over it, I had forgotten that there was more to it than just the stuff with Blake and Sun. Which is a shame because everyone was so focused on those scenes that no one brought up something very important that this episode revealed.

Taiyang's house is clearly haunted.

Well, either that or his Semblance allows him to close manual doors without being anywhere near them.

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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#41889: Nov 14th 2016 at 11:12:42 AM

I'll admit I missed that.

Maybe it was some auto-door closing magic.

It's weird picturing "magic" in RWBY. Before the Silver Eyes and the Maidens everything seemed more "magitech, our science is better than yours." Yes there are crystals and powders with elemental properties imbued in them, but to the world of RWBY that's just science, that's the geology of their planet.

The Maidens are magical sure. Qrow and Raven, I don't see it. It's different from the Semblances we've seen but not every Semblance has to have some elemental/battle-oriented nature to it. And since Semblances can be inherited it's not unprecedented for Qrow and Raven to both have it.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41890: Nov 14th 2016 at 11:14:38 AM

Think Yang will ever actually use that arm or just resolve to go on without it?

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#41891: Nov 14th 2016 at 11:47:58 AM

I'm guessing most of the season she'll go without while she wrestles with her inner conflicts before donning the arm for the finale.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#41892: Nov 14th 2016 at 11:58:48 AM

She'll use it, but it'll break and that's a fine comprise.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#41893: Nov 14th 2016 at 2:18:44 PM

Given Raven also has those unusual portals, I am of the belief that "magic" is more widespread than the maidens and Raven and Qrow can shapeshift due to that.

Oh, I think magic has to be more widespread than the maidens. The Maidens came from the Old Wizard, and where there's one old wizard, there's probably a lot more 'magic' that modern people don't seem to be aware of.

That said, the colour and shading involved in those portals is the same as the colour and shading used in both Cinder's blast circles, the portal the parasitic Grimm came out of, and the colour scheme that Salem uses (which also reflects the parasitic Grimm's portals and Raven's portals).

The other thing that Raven has that Cinder didn't was the shape of the portal, which was the ellipse, which is shared by both the parasitic Grimm and Salem's symbol (also seen on the glove).

Cinder's little pot-boilers were circles, not ellipses. Then again, she was only creating them with her arrows prior to gaining any of the Fall Maiden's power, so that could be connected to Salem and the parasite Grimm, too.

If the portal isn't her Semblance, then it has to be magic because I seriously doubt Dust would be capable of doing that (too much of an easily-accessible Story-Breaker Power otherwise). I also concur that the sword was likely the focus object.

There's a lot we don't know about Dust. We've been told there are four kinds, and we've been told that the four kinds can be combined in different ways to produce different effects (we haven't really seen combination Dust in action that we know of yet).

However, there's always a 'fifth element', so there has to be a fifth Dust. There's a weird purple crystal where Salem is based, and I'm betting that's the fifth Dust.

In eastern systems (I'm going there first because of the anime-influence on the show), the fifth element can be called 'moon'. And, let's face it, the moon is the giant elephant in the room, where this show is concerned.

So far, we've only seen this fifth Dust where Salem is based, so it doesn't seem to be a known variable for Remnant at large, and probably not very accessible to anyone who might know it exists. However, Salem seems to be using that crystal everywhere. It's also a similar colour to the tainted veins on her body and face. The WoR segments did say people can place Dust into their bodies. I'm wondering if Salem has put this mysterious purple Dust into hers.

On the other hand, there's always the option of Semblance. We have a precedent for 'tele-' Semblances. Glynda has telekinesis. Teleporting might be a Semblance type - especially when you have abilities like Blake's and Neo's, which create the appearance of teleporting.

However, like several of you, I have noted that the sword certainly seems to be the focus of the portal because we hear the sound of a sword sheathing just as Raven appears and the portal is just visible at the edges of the screen when she appears. Then we see properly how she activates the portal when she leaves, so she definitely used the sword both times.

Then again, Glynda tends to use pointing fingers or her whip to focus her telekinesis Semblance, so the use of the sword doesn't rule out the portals being a Semblance. It's the appearance that causes doubt - the appearance being so connected to something that's been closely associated with Salem. It suggests Salem's influence, or an influence that's impacted both Raven and Salem.

So far we only know two kinds of magic; that which empowers the four maidens and the silver eyed warriors.

Although it does beg the question of whether the Old Wizard retained any power after giving the Maidens power, or whether he gave it all away. It also begs the question of whether there was a change in the nature of the magic as it was given to the girls.

Think Yang will ever actually use that arm or just resolve to go on without it?

She'll spend a while wrestling with her demons, then find out someone she cares about is in trouble and there's no way to get a warning to them, so she'll take up the arm in dramatic fashion and charge to the rescue. My bet is on Ruby.

I expect it take a while for Yang to get to that kind of point, however.

The other alternative is that it takes her a while to get to a point where she can take up the arm, but then she'll find she needs to spend time learning how to use it properly.

edited 14th Nov '16 2:22:04 PM by Wyldchyld

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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41894: Nov 14th 2016 at 2:24:33 PM

The Maidens are magical sure. Qrow and Raven, I don't see it. It's different from the Semblances we've seen but not every Semblance has to have some elemental/battle-oriented nature to it. And since Semblances can be inherited it's not unprecedented for Qrow and Raven to both have it.

We know of one that runs in a family. That's supposed to be a point about the Schnee's being unique, and it isn't the kind of thing you should expect them to use more than once, even if it does technically establish it as possible.

Like I said before (or meant to) if it's just Qrow's (and Raven's) Semblance it's a very strange way of presenting it.

edited 14th Nov '16 2:24:56 PM by LSBK

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#41895: Nov 14th 2016 at 2:41:27 PM

[up]semblance where supused to be unique actually and them they retcon that a episode later, is not imposible

and I dont think Magic is more widespread, it is a point the Maiden are diferent from other users, so to just having Qrow and Raven to have type of magic it cheap the whole thing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41896: Nov 14th 2016 at 2:51:33 PM

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying the framing is different. Semblances, as a whole, being unique to the individual hasn't changed.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#41897: Nov 14th 2016 at 2:56:08 PM

[up]They are to the point a whole family share the same semblance, they just expand what it means to be unique, im sure they will do so again.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41898: Nov 14th 2016 at 3:02:29 PM

The whole "family sharing a Semblance" thing is supposed to make the Schnee's unique, is the thing. Yes, they could go "here are some other families where it's shared" but it's unlikely for them to do so.

The idea that a Semblance is a unique, often personality driven power, is still very strong outside of that.

TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#41899: Nov 14th 2016 at 10:30:20 PM

The "magic" of the universe is clearly faint enough that no one can use start using wizard powers. When Cinder first got to Beacon she did have Emerald and Mercury make a list of kids and their semblances and did talk about stealing them. Which I suspect was character driven and a bit of a red herring as they didn't know that Ruby had her eye-nuke. Cinder just thought that she'd get to corner the little hunters and beetle!grimm could do the rest.

RE:portals. The portals are most likely Raven's semblence or she had some magictek to do it. I'm leaning towards semblance:

  • It's one thing to teleport yourself just by energy, in fictionland the Required Secondary Powers are the ability to control the destination and see where the hell you're going. One wrong move and Raven could have 'ported right infront of a White Fang goon or be impaled by the train since it was moving. Her effortlessness shows that the portals are an innate ability.
    • As I type this I expect to be proven wrong by the show, I'll have so much egg on my face that you could slap me with a skillet and call me an omelette...

  • It's one thing to 'port yourself, in Raven was using magic why not t-p some other hunters or allies when she saved Blake? It wasn't for lack of energy since Torchwick trying to beat Blake into her next incarnation would be a big enough emergency that would call for use of "magic". Since Raven ported in then ported out I vote for semblance.

If a semblance comes from personality then again, it makes sense due to personality and fighting style. I'm thinking of Alfred Bester's work "the Stars my Destination": teleporting (jaunting) was discovered by accident when a scientist escaped a fatal lab accident. Raven probly teleported away from a grimm. Given how things are in the world of Reminant she kept it a secret because it's an ace in the hole.

edited 14th Nov '16 10:33:09 PM by TairaMai

I tried to walk like an Egyptian and now I need to see a Cairo practor....
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#41900: Nov 15th 2016 at 6:00:39 AM

"Cinder just thought that she'd get to corner the little hunters and beetle!grimm could do the rest."

I thing you are taking about "is how what power to take" she is refering about taking their streight: Atlas robot, their public adoration raiting and more important their unity

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

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