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AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#41426: Nov 5th 2016 at 9:44:54 AM

[up]It's not strawmannish when Shaoken literally said that I sound like a sociopath because I don't want the show to waste my time by having Ruby wangst over hurting the resident monster. And since nobody voiced any disagreement I can only conclude that you all agree.

edited 5th Nov '16 9:46:06 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41427: Nov 5th 2016 at 9:47:39 AM

[up]Looking at that post, I think I'm more on their side. I do agree that Ruby shouldn't have a big angsty fit about it, but you saying she should just shrug it off as something Cinder deserves would be completely out of character for Ruby, and I think most of the cast.

She's not Qrow or Winter, or someone else I could see being cool with that, even if I don't necessarily see or want her to feel bad for Cinder the person if that make sense.

edited 5th Nov '16 9:48:54 AM by LSBK

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#41428: Nov 5th 2016 at 9:51:13 AM

[up]In short you agree that I am, or at least sound like, a sociopath. Okay then. I am strawmanning how?

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41429: Nov 5th 2016 at 9:55:10 AM

Well, no, because I'm not the one who used the term, and I didn't completely disagree with you, just pointed out why I thought it wouldn't fit most of the characters.

And on this general issue, I don't think the disagreement of whether nor not Ruby made the right decision is the problem. The problem is that some of you are talking as if this was a spur of the moment decision to just go gallivant off to have fun and escape her problems when that's demonstrably not true.

If we can't even acknowledge that "Ruby didn't immediately just take off for funzies" isn't true, I'm not sure how productive the discussion can be.

edited 5th Nov '16 9:56:02 AM by LSBK

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#41430: Nov 5th 2016 at 9:55:53 AM

And you know you're argument is falling apart when you're talking about things we as the audience knows, but the character doesn't, and thus cannot consider.

Ruby doesn't know that Hunters and Huntresses exist, and that Qrow's on his way to Haven to lend a hand? Doesn't seem accurate.

It's not strawmannish when Shaoken literally said that I sound like a sociopath because I don't want the show to waste my time by having Ruby wangst over hurting the resident monster. And since nobody voiced any disagreement I can only conclude that you all agree.

Yes, that personal attack was completely out of line. I liked the idea of wangsting over Ruby killing Torchwick because that would be a conscious decision and it would lead to necessary development. This gets right back into my point about there being a million ways to help people, and it not automatically meaning "do the violence".

Ruby hasn't just chosen the path of helping folks. She's chosen the path of helping folks by inflicting violence upon those that would harm them. She has chosen to be a person who does harm to others in the course of achieving a net good for her society. She might not yet see it that way because she really just wants that pat on the head from Qrow, but that is the road she has elected to walk.

Killing Torchwick would put that front and center. It would force her to confront the fact that the life she's chosen is one where she will be expected to inflict harm on others and to kill where necessary. To decide for herself if, every time she pulls that trigger on Crescent Rose, she is really comfortable with the bullet going through a person's skull.

If she's not, then she shouldn't be a Huntress. She should be a farmer. A doctor. An architect. There's a million vocations where she'll never have to harm a single person in order to help others, and that is the motivation question that Ruby needs to answer: she wants to help people. Great. Why does she want to do it by harming people? And can she learn how to sleep soundly at night after doing so?

Simply putting a scar on Cinder's face doesn't have that same dramatic punch because she didn't do it on purpose, it was the result of a superpower meltdown. She probably doesn't even remember it. It's not a consequence of her choices.

And if she can't even make peace with, "A bad person got hurt when I tried to stop them from murdering everyone!" then she really shouldn't be here. Especially when she had no problem bailing on Yang. Cinder should not receive more sympathy from Ruby than Yang does.

edited 5th Nov '16 9:58:24 AM by TobiasDrake

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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41431: Nov 5th 2016 at 10:00:40 AM

[up]You brought it up as if them having their own Huntsmen or Huntresses was foolproof and she should be aware of this, as if it helped Vale. You also brought up Qrow being able to turn into a crow and assumed she know this, or even that he was going their next instead of taking another route. And you also assumed that a huntress is supposed to be the kind of person who puts their family ahead of the world.

It just seems like you've mischaracterized the situation when you don't need to have an interesting conversation about Ruby's choices and actions, and whether they're justified or well thought out.

edited 5th Nov '16 10:04:34 AM by LSBK

Darthwyn leader of Inherit from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
leader of Inherit
#41432: Nov 5th 2016 at 10:19:44 AM

considering the fact that vale had huntsman and an army of robots and Is in pretty bad shape despite having some idea of a threat looming ahead saying the other kingdoms have huntsman and probably no warning especially without long range communication to send news is not exactly a good argument. Someone has to go to see where the clue leads and potentially warn haven of what happened.

"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - Dorthy
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41433: Nov 5th 2016 at 10:31:05 AM

To clarify, I do actually think there are some legitimate arguments to be made about why what Ruby is doing is either unwise or mistimed. I just don't think "She should focus on the friends who are all safe and/or their is no conceivable way for her to make contact with!" is a particularly good one considering what she's doing now and why.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#41434: Nov 5th 2016 at 10:33:35 AM

As I said in my initial post on the subject of Ruby feeling bad about what she did to Cinder, the issue isn't even whether it would be in or out of character for Ruby to be upset—it's that I, as an audience member, feel it would be a waste of my time. This is a short show. It is pressed for time as is. I do not want it to use up any of that time trying to make me, or anybody else, feel sad that the series' worst villain to date got hurt.

Well, no, because I'm not the one who used the term, and I didn't completely disagree with you, just pointed out why I thought it wouldn't fit most of the characters.

Pointing out why it doesn't fit is one thing, but in the post prior to this one all you said was that you agreed with them more than you did me. And since their argument was that I am displaying a nigh-sociopathic lack of empathy...well can you see why I responded the way I did?

If we can't even acknowledge that "Ruby didn't immediately just take off for funzies" isn't true, I'm not sure how productive the discussion can be.

The problem is that the show hasn't had Ruby showing any concern over the people she left behind. In the two episodes released thus far (haven't seen 3, so maybe that fixes it) we've seen her fight a monster and express some angst over Pyrrha and a random Hunter. We haven't seen her so much as mention her former teammates, including her crippled sister. Not even a "I hope Yang is doing alright". This is, at best, awkward writing.

Moreover, if the show isn't going to have her express said concerns for Yang or Weiss or Blake, but does, at some point in the future, do what some of you seem to be expecting/arguing for and have her sympathize with Cinder's "plight"...well that's not gonna make her look good, to say the least.

I just don't think "She should focus on the friends who are all safe and/or their is no conceivable way for her to make contact with!" is a particularly good one considering what she's doing now and why.

For me at least the problem isn't that she's not with them, it's that the show hasn't even shown her worrying about them. That's strange at best, outright awful if the show is going to make her empathize with the person who killed her friends, killed (as far as she knows) her mentor, burned down her school, and unleashed an army of Grimm.

Yes, that personal attack was completely out of line.

Thank you. I will never understand how some people think it's legit to claim that not expressing sympathy for the as-yet potential pain of a fictional character makes me sound like someone who possesses a crippling, real-life mental disorder whose symptoms include a lack of empathy for real people and criminal behaviour.

edited 5th Nov '16 10:36:10 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41435: Nov 5th 2016 at 10:36:46 AM

[up]When did I say that Ruby should sympathize with Cinder? I made the case she'd probably be taken aback by her own actions could do something like that, not that she'd actually feel bad for Cinder. I never argued that Cinder deserves sympathy.

Something else I think that should be obvious but apparently needs to be pointed out is that you two are making a lot of assumptions based on two episodes. It seems weird to me that you're actually assuming her not bringing them up is an actual possibility, just because she didn't when they were dealing with other things.

It's also not particularly weird given the time frame, you can care about people without them being on your mind all the time. I know that might come off as condescending, but I feel like it needs to be said, because it seems like you're implying that's not the case.

edited 5th Nov '16 10:40:54 AM by LSBK

SophiaLonesoul Since: Apr, 2012
#41436: Nov 5th 2016 at 10:40:43 AM

I would also be dissappointed if RWBY spent time on Ruby wangsting over what happened to Cinder. Cinder murdered one of Ruby's friends in front of her, is responsible for Penny's death, killed her mentor, destroyed her school. To have her have a breakdown over what she did to Cinder would be to cheapen the deaths and destruction that Cinder caused.

Ambar and I are not lacking empathy when we are saying this. Given that it is fueled by caring about Pyrrah, Ozpin, Penny and all the civilians that have died because of Cinder actions.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#41437: Nov 5th 2016 at 10:44:17 AM

[up][up]And my point is that saying someone lacks empathy for not wanting Ruby to waste time angsting over Cinder, yet simultaneously arguing that she shouldn't have to show concern for Yang et al, the argument that Shaoken and a couple of others were making, is messed up.

If she's doing the right thing by walking away from her friends to go save the world, and showing her angsting over them would be a waste of time/something that we can infer/what have you, then not giving a flying fuck about what she did to Cinder is also doing the right thing, and showing her being upset in any way about what happened to Cinder would be a waste of time.

That was the point I was making in my initial post (the one where you said I was strawmanning), and it was made, not to you, but to the guy who said I was a sociopath, compared me to Light Yagami, and then turned around and argued that Ruby doesn't need to show empathy for her teammates onscreen.

edited 5th Nov '16 10:47:12 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41438: Nov 5th 2016 at 10:46:45 AM

[up]I never said that. Maybe that other person did, but like I said, I wasn't in entire agreement with either of you. No, you don't sound like a sociopath for not wanting that to happen.

And it wouldn't be a waste of time if it helps her get better control over her power. That's an easy way for that to be used. She doesn't need to feel bad for Cinder to keep what happened in mind so that it doesn't inadvertently happen to someone who doesn't deserve it.

edited 5th Nov '16 10:48:44 AM by LSBK

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#41439: Nov 5th 2016 at 10:48:39 AM

[up]You did, however, accuse me of strawmanning when I responded to what that person said, which makes it sound like you are cool with what they said, and is how we got here in the first place. Anyway, doesn't seem like this conversation's going anywhere fast, so, anybody got anything else to talk about?

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41440: Nov 5th 2016 at 10:50:56 AM

[up]I still think you were strawmanning a bit with the second part, but I admit I was off about the first and you're right, this isn't going anywhere.

So...what will Yang being doing in this volume? We saw her in new digs but anyone think' she'll actually get a chance to wear them?

edited 5th Nov '16 10:54:19 AM by LSBK

VoidsEmpathy Emissary of the Void from Realm of In-Between Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: A heart full of love
Emissary of the Void
#41441: Nov 5th 2016 at 10:53:14 AM

Hmmmmm...I'd say that is a matter of when rather than how or if.

She'll still be struggling with her recovery and may be some time before she commits herself to do anything.

edited 5th Nov '16 10:53:36 AM by VoidsEmpathy

[DATA LOST]
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#41442: Nov 5th 2016 at 10:55:58 AM

My biggest concern with this season, honestly, is we'll end up with literally Four Lines, All Waiting. Splitting up the cast runs the serious risk of making the entire plot grind to a halt, as we gets and pieces of what each of the four are doing, but limited advancement on the main plot. With only twelve or so episodes in a season this could really slow things down.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#41443: Nov 5th 2016 at 10:57:19 AM

Yang and Taiyang will be the dad and daughter in this:

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41444: Nov 5th 2016 at 10:57:36 AM

[up][up]I agree with this.

I get wanting each of them to have personal time for their own thing, but the coming back together is going to be tough.

edited 5th Nov '16 10:58:00 AM by LSBK

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#41445: Nov 5th 2016 at 10:59:30 AM

The villains get to progress the plot?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#41446: Nov 5th 2016 at 11:01:25 AM

That would make it even worse, honestly. Five lines folks.

More importantly, Cinder and her lackeys drove the plot last season. We need Ruby and co to hit back this season or they're gonna feel useless.

AJSthe2nd Since: Jan, 2015
#41447: Nov 5th 2016 at 11:03:42 AM

I find the idea of Ruby getting weak in the knees at the thought of killing someone silly when she helped kill tons of White Fang grunts in Vol 2's finale and didn't spare it a though.

Maybe at best she'd be a little worried about the destructive potential of her power in terms of potential colleral damage or just that having a super power than can wreck someone that badly means she's too similar to Cinder for her liking. But I doubt she'd feel bad for Cinder specifically. If she does, then yeah I'm gonna call BS on that.

On the other hand I can buy that she didn't become a hunteress to kill criminials. She did to kill Grimm and probably thought any two bit thugs that she'd be sent against she could easily disable without hurting them. With her romantic view of hunters as all fairy tale heroes the idea of a criminal with hunter level power is probably not something she'd ever have thought of prior to Vol 3.

DeanCole Since: Jun, 2015
#41448: Nov 5th 2016 at 11:08:27 AM

Seems like Blake and Yang will be sharing the next ep https://mobile.twitter.com/RoosterTeeth/status/794917217624170496/video/1

edited 5th Nov '16 11:10:07 AM by DeanCole

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#41449: Nov 5th 2016 at 11:09:20 AM

That makes sense and is overall the better option for pacing.

Does anyone really want a dedicated episode towards (B)elle just running away? Where's she even going? Just away.

edited 5th Nov '16 11:11:20 AM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
#41450: Nov 5th 2016 at 11:34:18 AM

GOD it hurts me a lot to see Yang miserable.


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