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Prime_of_Perfection Where force fails, cunning prevails Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Where force fails, cunning prevails
#41401: Nov 5th 2016 at 12:23:51 AM

Beyond 2 months not being long enough, we never saw it. We have no clue what Ruby did during those 2 months.

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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#41402: Nov 5th 2016 at 12:36:32 AM

Yes, because it's not like she's going to want to try helping her own damn sister with severe depression.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#41403: Nov 5th 2016 at 1:03:57 AM

Yes, it's at least wrong to assume she didn't try to help...might be goin' too far in believing the worst in Rwby.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#41404: Nov 5th 2016 at 1:11:08 AM

Okay, I really don't think Ruby's in the wrong here. It's clear she at least tried to help Yang and then there's the whole "needs of the many" thing. What's more important: Trying to help your sister through her depression or trying to stop the bad guys from doing to another city what they did to Vale? In one scenario, Ruby might be able to save one person's happiness. In the other, she might be able to save countless lives. The choice is obvious to me. Hell, I deal with chronic severe depression myself and, if I were in Yang's shoes, I'd want Ruby to go stop Cinder. After all, it's not like Yang is alone or with people that don't care for her.

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Prime_of_Perfection Where force fails, cunning prevails Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Where force fails, cunning prevails
#41405: Nov 5th 2016 at 2:06:31 AM

I'm not taking any sides in whether she tried or not. Who knows, maybe she wanted to but wasn't given the opportunity. Or just didn't know what to do. The key thing is that we weren't shown what happened there and so we're all working from assumptions right now.

I don't think she just ditched them or anything like that myself. I just feel Ruby is a weak protagonist, that's all.

edited 5th Nov '16 2:07:18 AM by Prime_of_Perfection

Improving as an author, one video at a time.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#41406: Nov 5th 2016 at 2:21:22 AM

I thought that was a universal agreement upon discussion...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
FergardStratoavis A Fluff Ringer from Bellveins (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
A Fluff Ringer
#41407: Nov 5th 2016 at 2:59:01 AM

@On Scythe-Fighting and Things Getting Ugly: They don't. That's like exactly the point. People have Aura to protect them from grievous injury. Seeing people get injured so badly or die is a new to Ruby. Compare how she cuts down Grimm as early as Red Trailer.

She's distraught every time she sees someone die on her, whether it's Penny, Pyrrha or even that random schmuck from Ep 2. Plus, consider that the reactions to her Silver Eyes are radically different for both Smaugrimm and Cinder, both who were there at ground zero. Smaugrimm just gets frozen in place.

Cinder just got half of her body burned out to a husk. I'm not saying Ruby should be horrified, but she can certainly be disturbed.

Prime_of_Perfection Where force fails, cunning prevails Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Where force fails, cunning prevails
#41408: Nov 5th 2016 at 3:22:04 AM

This is making me wish her romanticism took a bigger hit from her own conscious decisions in Vol. 3 when so many hits were taking by everybody else. She wanted to fight monsters, but the real monsters were human! So how does she decisively solve the situation when the authority she's relied on is no longer there and there's nothing to do the work for her?

…Hell, what exactly is her end game plan right now?

It just bugs me because it only takes little tweaks and building on what they've already setup. Just adds in a bit more craft at various points to take it to the next level. And I've faith there capable of it due to how its handled so much else.

Also, I do agree this is an ensemble show. Its just that Ruby herself is the main as the first introduced and so on. She's just sadly the weakest link of the 4.

I love what they're doing with Weiss, who I think is my fave of the core four. I'm looking forward to more Yang, especially if it results on her mother coming into things while being a more Sink-or-Swim Mentor. Blake has White Fang and Adam already setup plus her actual romance arc continuing with Sun. They have good external and internal arcs in motion and Ruby's weakness on the internal side bugs me. I'll hold out hope still, but bleh…

edited 5th Nov '16 3:37:17 AM by Prime_of_Perfection

Improving as an author, one video at a time.
Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#41409: Nov 5th 2016 at 3:47:10 AM

[up][up]Pretty much what I was trying to say. Stopping Cinder is fine, inflicting horrific levels of injury in the process, potentially unintentionally, would be something that would elicit a negative reaction from Ruby seeing as she's not malicious enough to want to do that to another person even if they were responsible for murdering two of her friends.

On the whole Yang situation I'll raise one more point; Yang might actually improve more without Ruby there. One of Yang's reasons for being a huntress is to protect the ones she cares about, especially Ruby. Miles, Kerry and Barbara have all said that Yang's suffering because now she's the one who needs protecting. Having Ruby there would be a constant reminder that she can't protect her little sister anymore and needs to be protected. Plus Ruby's goal from childhood was to be a huntress and protect people in danger. If she stays with Yang she is knowingly abandoning people to their fate and abandoning her own dreams for Yang, which would only make Yang feel worse. So Ruby leaving could very well be her recognising that her being there was doing more harm than good and hindering her recovery.

It's hard to say because we only have four minutes to go off what could be between two-to-four months of time they spent together, for all we know Ruby could have told Yang what she was going to do and why, we simply don't know because we have zero information to go off. Yang's last lines of volume 3 were to tell Ruby that she could do what she wanted and to leave her alone, we have no idea if she continued like that or what.

In other news I watched volume 3 again with my friend today (it was his first time watching it) and I got him to give some predictions at the start of it:

  • The tournament would be cancelled at some point due to an emergency - 100% on that one.
  • Cinder will get more screen time to make up for Roman's imprisonment or alternatively she would hire somebody else to replace his role - correct
  • The divide between Cinder and the White Fang would grow due to their loses in Volume 2 - I put this down as a sorta; Adam wasn't too keen on Cinder in the flashback but was staying the course in the present day.
  • Something big would happen with Sun, maybe even more romance - that was a no, he was surprised he and his team didn't do more in the plot.
  • Qrow's presence raised some questions as why he was here, he narrowed it down to a terrifying escalation of events or that the tournament would reach it's conclusion and he would be teaching them more advanced huntress things. - Definitely correct on the terrifying escalation
  • There was more to the tunnel in the last season, maybe more tunnels that would bring more grim to the city - there weren't any more tunnels but I still feel the Grimm invasion counts for this one.
  • He thought we'd finally learn Jaune's semblance this season and predicted it was a buffing one that made his team stronger - Nope.
  • And mid-season he thought Pyrrha was secretly evil after that smile of hers in the elevator - I smiled at that one seeing as so many people thought the same.

And his prediction on volume 4 having only seen the character short:

  • Ruby would head to Haven to try and stop Salem's plot.
  • Weiss and Ironwood would go to Atlas. Ironwood be in trouble because of what happened, he thought Atlas would have a King who would decide that because the other kingdoms thought they were already going to invade that they should go with that plan. Ironwood would also seek Weiss out and rescue her from her father.
  • Blake's going hunting for Adam, also maybe trying to redeem him only to fail because the man is crazy.
  • Yang would spend most of the volume at home dealing with her problems but towards the end would get it together and go after Ruby to help.
  • Cinder's frozen on top of Beacon tower but somebody rescued her and will spend volume 4 trying to unfreeze her.
  • Towards the end everyone will reunite in Haven; Yang to go after Ruby, Weiss and Ironwood find out shit's going down there and making their own way there and Blake finding out that Adam is on his way there and heading off to confront him.
  • Roman's alive because he was swallowed whole by a Grimm that died and dissolved almost immediately afterwards and survived the crash because of his Aura. He might not come back this volume but he'll come back later and be important because he knows something about Cinder's plan that would come in handy and once it's apparent that Salem can be stopped he'll join team RWBY and co. Nobody would like him but he'd be vital to their efforts.
  • Penny's alive because she's a robot and her father's not happy with what happened, but she might be more murder-botty as a result.
  • He also thinks that RWBY will end with Salem's defeat since that is what the overall story revolves around; by that point they'll be full Huntresses and it's a good stopping point.

And while I was talking with him and speaking about Red vs Blue and how that is going onto season number 15 it got me thinking about the Chorus Trilogy which was also written by Miles. For all this talk about Cinder being a monster and a psychopath and what not I can't help but compare it to what he did with both the villains of that series and the story of it as a whole (spoilers for seasons 11 to 13):

When we first meet Locus he's a cold remorseless soldier who follows orders without care to morality and will do any horrible thing he's ordered to do without caring, while Felix (voiced by Miles) he's a cocky and selfish mercenary who has moments of empathy with the main cast, with both being on opposite sides of an evil empire vs heroic resistance civil war. Then we get to season 12 where it turns out that the evil empire is Not So Different to the resistance who they see as ruthless terrorists and this whole civil war is pointless bloodshed that would be resolved if the two sides talked to each other. Felix turns out to be Evil All Along and working with Locus to kill everybody on the planet for their employer by getting them to wipe each other out and avoid questions being asked, and his true personality is that of a psychopath who enjoys killing and tormenting people. Or in short this black and white conflict not being so clear cut after all and someone we thought was on the heroes side being the cause of their problems.

To tie this into RWBY and Cinder season 13 adds more to Locus and shows that he's not as cold and remorseless as he lets on and has doubts about what he's done and is still doing, and that it's his partnership with Felix that is largely keeping him on his path. When he's forced to confront his deepest fears and finds out that Felix had been preying on them to keep him on side he has a Heel Realization and abandons Felix as well as leaving the Reds and Blues alone. Not quite a Heel–Face Turn but it added more depth to what when introduced was a very simplistic character. I can't help but think that Cinder is the same as Locus; both when introduced were portrayed as clear cut villains but also had nothing about their pasts or inner thoughts revealed, all to build up expectations that Miles and Kerry will tear down when we finally get Cinder's backstory.

TL:DR version; Miles showed he's the master of creating expectations just so he can subvert them and turn what you think you know on it's head, and I think he's done the same to Cinder and potentially Salem.

God_of_Awesome Since: Jan, 2001
#41410: Nov 5th 2016 at 4:45:19 AM

It's been 2 episodes. Rubes is having disturbing dreams, too, so I'd say her internal conflict will be survivor's guilt.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41411: Nov 5th 2016 at 8:16:11 AM

And why is Ruby the one who has to drop everything and deal with that? How about, I don't know, some actual full-fledged Hunters and Huntresses?

One, because she's one of the few people to actually know about it. Two, because she doesn't exactly have a lot of Huntsmen to call on, and even if she did they're all probably busy trying to save the people of Vale, even assuming they'd believe her. And three, and probably most importantly, she's one of the few people who might actually be able to do something about it. Hate silver eye powers or not, the end of the battle and Beacon and Cinder's condition, establishes that.

edited 5th Nov '16 9:07:26 AM by LSBK

TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#41412: Nov 5th 2016 at 8:42:33 AM

Episode 3 is a Blake episode, btw.

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Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#41413: Nov 5th 2016 at 8:51:02 AM

What's more important: Trying to help your sister through her depression or trying to stop the bad guys from doing to another city what they did to Vale?

Yes.

tongue

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#41414: Nov 5th 2016 at 8:54:18 AM

Clearly the correct action would have been to drag her handicapped, depressed sister on the saving the world quest so that she could receive her therapy on the road.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#41415: Nov 5th 2016 at 9:05:37 AM

The bad-butt one-armed fighting...that's not something to expect so soon.

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DeanCole Since: Jun, 2015
#41416: Nov 5th 2016 at 9:06:07 AM

[up][up][up][up]Adding to that.Keep in mind Vale now has a growing army of Grimm sitting in its backyard that can attack them it any time.That plus the fact the SDC is now withholding dust may have Hunters more concerned about keeping Vales borders secure.

edited 5th Nov '16 9:08:23 AM by DeanCole

Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#41417: Nov 5th 2016 at 9:14:25 AM

On the subject of episode 2, does Weiss' bro come off as a douche to anybody else or is it just me?

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#41418: Nov 5th 2016 at 9:20:44 AM

Yes, other people think that.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41419: Nov 5th 2016 at 9:21:07 AM

We've been over that at length already. For me, it's less about him maybe messing with Weiss, and more it seems like people seem to be going to weird places with it.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#41420: Nov 5th 2016 at 9:31:52 AM

Yes, because it's not like she's going to want to try helping her own damn sister with severe depression.

She demonstrably doesn't. She went to Haven instead.

Helping a loved one doesn't have a time limit. There's not supposed to be a point where you're like, "Oh, my sister's PTSD hasn't healed yet. It's really starting to inconvenience me. I'm going to go do something else instead because I'm tired of dealing with this."

Haven has its own army of Hunters and Huntresses. Qrow and Glynda both know about Cinder. Qrow can turn into a bird and be in Haven much faster than anyone could on foot. There is no reason for Cinder to be Ruby's responsibility. There never has been.

Meanwhile, there is only one person qualified to be Yang's sister.

edited 5th Nov '16 9:32:36 AM by TobiasDrake

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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41421: Nov 5th 2016 at 9:35:00 AM

Helping a loved one has a time limit when there are other things to consider. I'd think being a huntsmen/huntress kind of has being willing to put your personal feelings or family behind the greater good as an actual thing.

And you know you're argument is falling apart when you're talking about things we as the audience knows, but the character doesn't, and thus cannot consider.

Honestly, I don't know what to say if you're actually arguing that Ruby is a terrible sister because she dared to decide she should try and help the world and get answers after months of Yang not getting better then...

edited 5th Nov '16 9:38:14 AM by LSBK

TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#41422: Nov 5th 2016 at 9:35:24 AM

[up]x5 He is sort of a "jerk light" to me. Bit smug, but not too much.

Great. I checked tumblr to see if we know any names to anyone who appeared in the opening, and now there is so many things I could bring up. Albeit only based on pictures.

edited 5th Nov '16 9:35:43 AM by TPPR10

Only sometimes posts
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#41423: Nov 5th 2016 at 9:37:22 AM

Remember folks...not being upset that a monster like Cinder got hurt? Sociopathic. Bailing on your sister when she's struggling with PTSD and depression? Totally normal, justifiable and heroic behaviour and how dare anybody suggest otherwise.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#41424: Nov 5th 2016 at 9:39:46 AM

I just realized something. Jacques cares about the appearance of the Schnee family, right? Why would he hire Klein? He seems a bit unstable to be a butler.

The legend has returned.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41425: Nov 5th 2016 at 9:40:08 AM

[up][up]That comes off as a bit strawmanish you know.

Did anyone actually say that Ruby should "feel bad for Cinder" or did they just say that "Ruby might be horrified that she could unintentionally do something like that"? Because I got the vibe people meant the latter more, and these two things are not the same.

edited 5th Nov '16 9:43:10 AM by LSBK


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