One of those doesn't fit...
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.Okay, now this is complete and absolute bullshit. Five seconds? When she woke up at her house the leaves were only just starting to fall from the trees and when she left there was a solid build up of snow on the ground. The leaves usually start to fall around the middle of Autumn while snow would depend entirely on the type of environment, but let's go averages and say around the middle of the first month of winter. That's two whole months Ruby was with Yang, and what was the last time we saw Yang? Still in the dark spare room rather than her own room with Ruby (you can check, Ruby's room has two beds in it). With that little progress Yang needs more than a 15-year-old girl to get her through it.
She hasn't forgotten either of them, just hearing about the Schnee dust company is enough to wipe the smile off Ruby's face, and Blake left without explanation or any idea where she went. She cares about all of them but she is literally incapable of helping any of them; Weiss is in Atlas which is bracing for war, Blake is literally impossible for any of her team to intentionally find right now which makes helping her impossible, and Yang requires the kind of help that a 15-year old is simply not qualified. Meanwhile she's not just running off to fight monsters for shits and giggles, she's going after Cinder and her crew who just murdered two of her friends literally in front of her, destroyed her school and secondary home, were responsible for her sister being maimed and killed god-knows how many people in Vale and have clear plans to repeat in the other kingdoms. And this is purely an "either-or" situation, she can go after Cinder and try to save people from her, or she can stay home and fail to help Yang, or try to get into Atlas on foot on the off chance Weiss father would let her see her in her nice safe home, or throw a dart at a map of Remanent and go looking for Blake. So she chose to do both the heroic thing to do and literally the only constructive choice and try and stop civilization from being destroyed.
I'm with Tobias that Ruby should have killed Roman. Not only would it been a satisfying conclusion, but the grim reality of the situation would hit her. I don't think her optimism is bad, but I too wish it was truly challenged. Challenged best around her actions.
And I agree she is way too passive a protagonist. Being passive is fine if her character arc is growing out of it, but I've not seen hints of it.
Also, with flat character arcs, you need to make it more and more difficult for them to not change. And the character isn't rewarded for their right choices, but pushed more and more to go a different route. This could also tie into how Roman can serve as a great foil to Ruby with him being someone who has given up and thus we know where it leads.
Improving as an author, one video at a time.Heck, Roman's final rant pretty much marks him out forever as the anti-Ruby. For Roman to continue, even in death, to challenge Ruby's optimism would therefore be a logical extension of both his character and his last, onscreen moments.
And that's without even getting into the fact that just from a purely narrative perspective Ruby should have been the one to do him in. The show all but acknowledges that in having him come back from his prior defeat (at the hands of Blake, where it's not personal) and sending him up against Ruby one final time.
The show understood that Roman's showdown had to be between he and Ruby. The show understood that before Ruby could develop a personal enmity with anyone else the running battle between she and Roman would have to be concluded. And then it stuck the landing.
I honestly can't agree that Ruby should have killed Roman, that would be something far too heavy for Ruby to deal with at this point in time. Truthfully I'm banking on Ruby to run into Cinder into her current state and be horrified at what she did to her. While Ruby rightly hates Cinder for murdering two of her friends Ruby is not the sort of person who is malicious enough to want to inflict those kinds of injuries on another person, and that would better serve her development then her killing Torchwick even if it was an accident.
On Ruby's motivations and stuff I'm of the camp (two episodes in) that Ruby is not holding up as well as she's letting on. With her dreams are of Pyrrha dying, her reaction to Jaune's training and Pyrrha's message, as well as how she looked when Nora mentioned the Schnee dust company and how when she left home Yang was still keeping herself holed up in the spare room after at least two months I honestly think that part of her quest is her wanting to try and fix something after being confronted with problems she simply couldn't help with.
Finding out you accidentally fucked up somebody's eye and being horrified about it should be a normal reaction even if said person was a "monster". Because you fucked up somebody's eye and that's a pretty horrible thing to do.
At the end of the day, Ruby is a Nice Girl.
edited 4th Nov '16 9:29:32 PM by Karxrida
She really shouldn't care considering what happened...
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.I know this is a few pages late but this thread moves wayyyy too fast for my slow-responding self to keep up with.
I have an answer and it is not one I like. You see, there are actually two (2) characters that have shown far more protagonist-y screentime than Ruby. Actually there are a bunch but two (2) that are very noticeable.
Jaune and Blake.
Jaune is one of the most developed members of the cast. He has consistently gotten character development screentime over all four volumes (and Volume 4 only has had 2 episodes!) and has been framed like a protagonist throughout.
During Volume 1, Jaune had the so-called 'Jaune Arc', where he struggled against bullying and, with the help of Pyrrha, overcame it. He was the central character throughout that bit of the story, with Cardin as his primary antagonist and Ruby and Pyrrha as supporting him. Important to note that members of Team RWBY had not received much in the way of character development at this point (Blake would later that season but Yang would not actually have any character backstory until Volume 2 and actual growth until the finale of Volume 3). In addition, Team JNPR as a whole seemed to revolve solely around Jaune, despite the claims that they were a 'secondary A-team' rather than just Jaune being the secondary protagonist.
During Volume 2, Jaune's role reverts to one more rooted primarily in (terribly done) comic relief, undoing his character growth from Volume 1. During the conclusion of the 'prom arc', he is one of two characters to receive character growth from this waste of valuable time I mean multi-episode arc. The other is (shocker) Blake. Some might argue Pyrrha had character growth from the arc but I would find myself in disagreement there.
During Volume 3, Jaune's screentime got heavily cut down to set-up Pyrrha's arc and by that I mean immediate death. However, his relationship with Pyrrha finally resolved and gave him definitive motivation to continue on in Volume 4. Admittedly, this is the volume that diminishes Jaune's potential protagonist position (say that three times fast) the most, but it is setting up heavily for Volume 4.
Speaking of, Volume 4's two episodes heavily paint Jaune as the protagonist. Grieving with Pyrrha's death is almost exclusively framed through Jaune's view point, with Ruby getting some weird magic visions. We have yet to see any other members of Team RNJR deal with the passing of their (supposed) friend while Jaune has had multiple extended scenes of him battling and wrestling with the grief.
Meanwhile, Blake comes off as a protagonist for a slightly different reason (and admittedly the Volume 3 finale moved away from most of these points - thankfully).
I could explain this in full detail but this post
does an astounding job of explaining the points and is a very interesting read.
I really want Ruby to live up to her position as a protagonist (mainly because neither Jaune nor Blake interest me as protagonists and I have a soft spot for bright and optimistic heroes) but it really sucks when her entire reason for being important is 'oh hey these powers showed up in the volume 3 finale so i guess i'm important to the plot now'.
"Evii is right though" -Saturn "I didn't know you were a bitch Evii." -Lior ValA lot of people could have been the main character, with a few relatively minor changes. But none of them are (instead Ruby gets treated like a protagonist in terms of being the center of the action without any of the qualities that would make her a viable protagonist), which is a weakness of the series.
So Ruby leaves.
What the hell? Who does that? It's not like she was going off to save the world or anything, so far as she knew. But nope, adventuring is more important to her than her sister. Someone's going to point out that Yang didn't seem much improved even after Ruby presumably spent several months with her. While it's true that Yang didn't look much better, you know what's certainly not going to help? Her sister bailing on her after helping turns out to be neither easy nor quick. Does she actually have any reason to believe that what she's hoping to find in Haven is more important than getting her sister back on her feet? Serious question, I can't actually remember why they're going to Haven.
Ultimately, the point I'm trying to make isn't that Ruby is a bad person. Clearly the narrative intends us to believe that The Quest takes priority and Ruby is leaving Yang behind only reluctantly, because she has more important things to do. The problem is that the show has done a terrible job of demonstrating that, especially when it shows Ruby having cool fun adventures with her backup friends, rather than, say, pushing herself (and them) to travel faster so she can get their job done and she can return home to her sister. Or hell, just being shown to be thinking about Yang in any capacity whatsoever. None of that was in evidence in the pre-season teaser or the first episode. (Maybe there's something in episode two; I haven't seen it yet.)
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.![]()
In a certain sense, her not having her own story so to speak is the reason why she is the anchor character. Because that way the story doesn't have to focus on one thing. Like let's say that Blake was the protagonist. In that case, her being Faunus and her conflict with the White Fang would be the upfront thing what would be the focus of. But RWBY is not about one girl going against one organization. It has more stories to told, and the central plot, one what is not necessarily tied to one character's struggles, needs to be dragged on by someone who might be more neutral to these problems.
Ruby works as the main character because she allows other stories to be told without needing to be about them only.
edited 4th Nov '16 9:57:37 PM by TPPR10
Only sometimes postsHonestly Ambar? That makes you sound like a sociopath. Normal people don't enjoy hurting other people, normal people don't just burn half a person, destroy their eye and then shrug it off and go "oh well, she had it coming so it's alright then." That's the kind of thing people like Light do to justify their actions and not deal with how horrific they are.
@ Jovian
So Ruby leaves.
What the hell? Who does that? It's not like she was going off to save the world or anything, so far as she knew. But nope, adventuring is more important to her than her sister. Someone's going to point out that Yang didn't seem much improved even after Ruby presumably spent several months with her. While it's true that Yang didn't look much better, you know what's certainly not going to help? Her sister bailing on her after helping turns out to be neither easy nor quick. Does she actually have any reason to believe that what she's hoping to find in Haven is more important than getting her sister back on her feet? Serious question, I can't actually remember why they're going to Haven.
Okay, several things wrong with your post. First off, yes Ruby is off to save the world. Cinder's big speech and all the hints from Roman indicate that what happened in Vale is just the beginning and Qrow explicitly told her that team CME's trail led right to Haven. Saying that Ruby should have stayed with Yang instead of going to save the world is like saying Superman is a terrible hero for going to save the planet rather than help Jimmy Olsen with physical therapy. Yes he can help Jimmy out by being there but the saving the planet can't wait whilst Jimmy will still be there when he gets back. The people of Mistral can't wait for Yang to be ready to let her family help her before the incredibly small number of people capable of saving them can get there.
Secondly, Ruby's a 15-year-old huntress in training, not a psychologist or a therapist. She is in no way qualified to help Yang through what she's going through. She wouldn't even know how to.
And even though I answered your serious question, yes Qrow said point blank Cinder's trail leads directly to Haven, which is her destination. She's not going off to fight monsters for kicks, she's on the trail of the woman who murdered two of her friends, got her sister maimed and delivered a speech laden with "the kingdoms will burn" undertones. Team RNJR and Qrow are literally the only people in the story who seem to know this and are in a position to actually do something about it since inter-kingdom communications is now limited to snail mail and couriers.
My interpretation from episodes 1 and 2 is that Ruby is doing what it takes to get to Haven and stop Cinder (those cool fun times were all for getting Jaune his new gear and supplies for the trip) and is keeping her feelings bottled up by focusing on something she can actually achieve. My guess is things will go bad for RNJR and Ruby will start to crack around the mid-point of the season.
@Ambar I'd argue that it didn't stick the landing because at the climatic moment of the two facing off, Ruby didn't have a decisive action that brought the conflict to a close. She got saved. Now, I know why she was, so I'm not going to debate that, but I will share a small bit from something I learned from which helped put words to my frustration in this and some other stories.
"See, it’s not enough that at the climax, your protagonist directly faces off against his true antagonist. Again, assuming your hero emerges the victor, to truly deliver on your promises to audiences, to pay off your narrative debts in full, your hero has to be the one who takes the definitive action which brings this central conflict to a close.
If you assign this action to another character, then your hero becomes the person being rescued, rather than the one doing the rescuing. At this crucial juncture, he switches from an active character to a passive one—from dazzling to dim. The result is an unfulfilling ending with a bitter aftertaste.
Sometimes, writers make this blunder out of sheer laziness. It’s just easier for the protagonist’s associate to do the heavy lifting. For the most part though, writers bungle up this part of the climax out of ignorance or misguided intentions.
The definitive action may consume only a few words on the page. Accordingly, it may seem insignificant, especially if everything else the hero has done is epic in scope.
As a result, writers can erroneously conclude that it’s acceptable to bestow the definitive action upon a neglected supporting character who needs a shiny moment of his own."
Ruby lacked that and it bothers me. I feel she got an out from ending the central conflict herself. Also, given that Ruby might not be able to handle the action is what makes it interesting. Fine writing emphasis reactions. Plus the idea that they were wrong about this being a fairy tale and need to keep moving forward anyway would work into that. For Ruby, I still feel she's romanticizing a bit. I'm not asking for deconstruction here, but reconstruction.
Also, yes, Roman already is the anti. I'd utilize that more in story. With Ruby outright using it as further motivation to not go down that route. And I'd have her react to it more. Personally, I'd have her pity him more than anything else while acknowledge he needed to be stopped, but that's just me. I'd also draw upon that and everything else as outright reason why Ruby is invested in discovering what's going on.
Again, the key word being overt. Sometimes subtleties or people reading into things is overrated and it robs us of giving the character actually coming to this realizations, seeing this thought process, and getting their reactions. And we get the reactions of so many others, which makes Ruby's passiveness all the more apparent.
Also, I'd make the kill more [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IDidntMeanToKillHim
like this.] The important thing is that we get more a reaction to her own choices and actions. And that she makes more memorable choices beyond generic hero. She can be the hero, just give it depth.
edited 4th Nov '16 10:39:33 PM by Prime_of_Perfection
Improving as an author, one video at a time.I definitely think Ruby would have some reaction to finding out how badly she injured Cinder.
I don't think she'd break down with a My God, What Have I Done? or anything. But I don't think Ruby is anywhere near the point to shrug off maiming a human combatant completely.
I'd expect to see that from some of the adult combatants, but not RWBY or JNR.
edited 4th Nov '16 10:41:59 PM by 32ndfreeze
I think she will too, but that one has the weakness of she didn't choose to do it.
Improving as an author, one video at a time.It's one thing to revel in the pain of others, but it's another thing entirely to be horrified at the idea that you hurt someone in the process of stopping them from murdering a shitload of people. If you're going to fight people with a giant scythe that's also a sniper rifle, you should accept the fact that sometimes it's going to be ugly. And if you can't accept that, then you shouldn't be fighting people.
Because two months isn't long enough?
No seriously, I do mean that. Two months might not be long enough.
Only sometimes postsI mean, as mentioned earlier, it isn't hard to see Ruby as being somewhere on the spectrum and potentially not really able to actually understand what Yang is going through. In addition, I know some people who hate having people hanging around when they having depressive episodes because it makes them feel guilty and lesser due to the perceived pity.
All I'm saying is that immediately assuming Ruby left because 'it's hard' might be underselling it.
I cannot believe I'm defending RWBY writing right now. Somebody pinch me.
"Evii is right though" -Saturn "I didn't know you were a bitch Evii." -Lior ValRuby had a central personal story in the beginning and it was to be normal knees. It just happens to be over.
"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." TwitterThere's a world of difference between stopping someone, hurting them, and utterly fucking up half their body including gouging out an eye, damaging their vocals to near-uselessness and apparently rendering their left side useless. Fuck, when police officers kill people in most western nations no matter how justified they are they get stood down and made to talk to people to ensure their mental state doesn't suffer.
Ruby is a nice person, so inflicting such grievous injuries should get an reaction for her.
Again, a world of difference between hurting someone and viciously crippling her. You'd have to be a sociopath to just shrug that off.
Because there are only four people who know about the truth; Ironwood, Glynda, Qrow and Ruby. The first two are busy dealing with problems on their doorsteps and Qrow is banking on her being the one who solves it. Ruby can't tell anybody because long-range communications are down. She's the only person who can drop everything.
She was there for at least two months and Yang showed no progress. And her last scene with Yang at the start of those two months she was trying to help Yang, there's no evidence she gave up after that day and left her alone for the rest of her time before her trip.
But again, the world needs saving and as far as Ruby knows she's one of two people who can save it.
...how are you getting that vibe? The world is in serious danger and needs saving and almost nobody else can do anything, she's not running off to have fun, she's running off because she thinks that Cinder is going to kill more people and nobody else can help.

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