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TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#39276: Sep 22nd 2016 at 8:23:52 AM

[up][up] Oh yeah, I do recall that being the case.

Only sometimes posts
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#39277: Sep 22nd 2016 at 8:40:02 AM

[up][up][tup]

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
shinigamiPeter Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#39278: Sep 22nd 2016 at 9:48:29 AM

Thread moves faaaast.

[up]x7

I'd argue it's not "massively" better. The best thing in that trailer was Ruby's Spawn-cape.
I'd say that shadows, lighting and effects (that smoke on Grimm~) were all improved. Though I guess we'll see it better when the finished trailer is finally released (seriously, we're 30 days from V4 premiere, what's going on RT?).
I don't know why we're holding "first-year vs fully trained fighter" as a bad idea when Team RWBY has walked all over armed terrorists for at least two Volumes.
Because those weren't trained Huntsmen- as V2C4 showed, most WF recruits are just ordinary people from the streets; their given a gun, a mask and are said to go fight for their race. And once again, Adam is a leader of terrorist organisation, in a show where your station is generally proportional to your powerlevel. Neo, while strong, is still just a henchwoman/assassin working for Roman, and she was just playing around with Yang. Adam ending the fight quickly and effectively makes sense (especially considering his fighting style) and sets him up as an powerful opponent that the heroes should try to avoid. Though I agree that Velvet's fight was...stupid (why should one girl, no matter how versitile, do so much better against those Paladins than the other 10 students?).
I mean if you're going to put this much emphasis on "a first-year shouldn't be able to fight The Avatar" you should also ask why would Blake jump in to attack Adam when she clearly couldn't win.
Blake in this case wasn't trying to win- she was trying to save the student. And we all know how that "fight" went- kick, slap, down on the floor.
Jaune the boy who tried to date out of his league even though the girl he was after wasn't interested in him in the slightest? He's a reasonable guy?
Love Makes You Stupid? Plus, stubbornness was always one of his flaws- one that he started working against, but still. And lets give him some credit- when he saw that Weiss likes Neptune, he backed down and even helped mend their date.
Outside of tumblr most people are pretty ok with Adam. He's a reasonable guy.
I mean, I know you're joking and all, but those examples aren't really compatible. Adam is universally reviled by the fans everywhere, to the point of people screaming for his blood. Heck, this forum is probably where I saw the most positive sentiment about him, if only because dRoy and unknowing are so active. And from my experiences with various forums and such, most people are ok with Jaune. Again, he is not a fan favourite, but people don't hate him either; if anything, his performence in V3 won over some fans.
If fans can't handle a character making mistakes, or being the source of their own misery, they really shouldn't read or watch drama at all. Stories like Breaking Bad, Bioshock Infinite, Fullmetal Alchemist, heck, Romeo and Juliet are almost entirely built on the protagonists doing something foolish that comes back to bite them later. There are characters that are meant to be Hate Sink's. Jaune is not one of them.
The thing is, Jaune's problem was always how weak he was, we don't need a character dying for him to be reminded about that. And just when he finally started showing some genuine competence (I mean, V3 shows that he went from "needs an extended battle for one Ursa" to "kills an Ursa off-handly, without much fanfare"), they would throw it all into the mud just to drive home how useless he is? That's just mean-spirited. Of course, we don't know how exactly that fight would've looked, so it's all guessing at this point.

[up]x8 ...what? You don't like Pyrrha being happy? tongue

edited 22nd Sep '16 9:58:40 AM by shinigamiPeter

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#39279: Sep 22nd 2016 at 9:56:36 AM

So, losing Pyrrha and then going to Mistral isn't incentive for him to improve?

He already has incentive to improve. He has tons of incentive to improve and is eagerly trying to do so. He's been training under Pyrrha since season 1. He doesn't need more incentive, he needs to start getting results.

Pyrrha dying as a result of Jaune's mistakes - mind this season we actually see him being mildly competent in a team battle so he is improving just a little - is a perfect jumping point for Jaune to start getting better. And tragic, because we actually did see him improving just a little. He and Pyrrha were both simply out of their depth against the newly empowered Cinder.

No, he's not. In the opening arc of season 1, he was brilliantly competent in a team battle. Team battle is where he shines, because he's a tactician. He's shit in a direct fight, but he's smart enough to think his way around his foes and figure out strategies for using his teammates' abilities effectively. He's the Pokémon Trainer of the cast. That is where he excels.

And we've never seen that Jaune since. The Jaune that brought down the Death Stalker with a complex bit of teamwork was abruptly replaced by full-time "Jaune the comedic f*ck-up". In three seasons, he's gone from a Master Tactician to a "mildly competent" buffoon who stuns himself with his own shield and can't lead his team out of a box. That's not improvement; he's actually getting shittier over time.

Getting Pyrrha killed would be the ultimate expression of how he's not only still awful in combat but his leadership skills have degraded to the point of nonexistence as well. Like I said, after three seasons, he doesn't need motivation to get better, he needs to be getting results for the efforts he's already putting in.

I should bring up Wesley from the Buffy and Angel series. This guy took a lot of falls, and there was nothing sympathetic about him for awhile. He was a dorky, protocol-obsessed bureaucrat who none of the main cast respected, and pretty much sucked at his job. Eventually after a harsh beating Wesley actually becomes useful. After 1 or 2 seasons of mostly just being there to be annoying and obstructive. Jaune is nowhere near as bad as Wesley. At least he hangs out with the main cast and gets along with them.

Wesley was already useful long before his "development". He wasn't an Epic Badass but he had great ideas and a willingness to carry them out.

But then...that happened and Wesley never recovered from his Ultimate F*ck-Up. His relationship with the protagonists remained strained at best even after big moments like saving Angel from his undersea coffin, he began sleeping with one of the villains, he became needlessly "dark and gritty", and he finally got his chance to be with Fred just in time for her to die, for him to spend half a season unhealthily obsessed with the thing that wears her corpse, and then to die.

Wesley spent two seasons being creepy and barely tolerated by the rest of the cast, then died a failure and had to have his part of the final plan fulfilled by Illyria. If you want Jaune to start dressing in black, making angst-speeches about redemption, and then get shot in the face, then yes, Wesley would be a good character model for him.

That raises the question then: why not? He doesn't "kill Pyrrha"... or does he? How was that scene supposed to go? Does he like throw his sword and stab her in the chest or something? That would be pretty dumb, and then I would hate Jaune, and then I'd wonder what Miles and Kerry were smoking and probably order it from the Rooster Teeth store.

That was my impression from what I've been hearing about it. In the fight, Jaune f*cks up and accidentally stabs Pyrrha. Is that not the case?

I'm imagining it mostly going down the way it did, except when Pyrrha gets Cinder into a chokehold Jaune shows up, and then Cinder gets ready to blast him and Pyrrha has to let her go or something, which ends up giving Cinder a window to set Pyrrha on fire. Regardless, Jaune failing to save Pyrrha isn't just "oh my god he f'cked up again please get rid of this character." That can easily be Jaune finally starting to take a few levels in badassery, pumping iron, starting his Rocky IV training montage and running to the top of a mountain to shout Pyrrha's name - and part of a character arc where Jaune has to deal with My Greatest Failure.

That might even be more potent because Jaune was the one who saw it happen - Ruby only coming in at the moment Pyrrha got disintegrated. Ruby would put all of the blame on Cinder, but Jaune would put all of the blame on himself and let the guilt turn inward.

See, that's bad too. Not only because it shits on Pyrrha by being a completely straightforward Fridging, but it also shits on Pyrrha by calling her a dogshit trainer. Because Jaune's been training. He's being trained by Pyrrha. If combat training from Pyrrha isn't enough for Jaune to take a level or two, why would "Jaune pumping iron" suddenly get the results she hasn't?

The implication that the best thing Pyrrha ever did for Jaune was to die so he could become awesome would be the most insulting thing they could possibly do to her character.

edited 22nd Sep '16 9:59:29 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#39280: Sep 22nd 2016 at 10:02:03 AM

My feelings on Jaune aren't as negative as Tobias' but I have to agree with him that ep 8 really was the highlight for him, and he never seems to reach that level of competence again. You don't really need him as the main comic relief character, because you get that in some form with basically everyone else as well.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#39281: Sep 22nd 2016 at 10:04:08 AM

Seriously, the last thing Wesley ever did on Angel was to beg the demon who obliterated his girlfriend's soul to lie to him and pretend to be her so that, in his final moments, he can delude himself into believing that she'll be waiting for him in the afterlife. His life was a Humiliation Conga from beginning to end.

That's really not the direction I'd like to see Jaune go in.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
shinigamiPeter Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#39282: Sep 22nd 2016 at 10:05:18 AM

That was my impression from what I've been hearing about it. In the fight, Jaune f*cks up and accidentally stabs Pyrrha. Is that not the case?
That's the thing- we have no idea what was going to happen, Shane's letter doesn't specify how Jaune would cause Pyrrha's death. Only that him being there in the fight would be the cause of it. Most people think it would be the case of Cinder cornering him and Pyrrha sacrificing herself for his sake/Jaune distracting Pyrrha for a moment and causing her to get sucker punched, but again, we have no way of knowing it now.

edited 22nd Sep '16 10:10:53 AM by shinigamiPeter

God_of_Awesome Since: Jan, 2001
#39283: Sep 22nd 2016 at 10:07:18 AM

If we do hold such a strong difference in opinion toward Jaune and Adam, mayhaps may I theorize it has something to do with the way we look at things as Tropers?

Specifically the comments I've seen regarding both, they seem to have to do with how one plays some tropes straight in an annoying fashion and the other seemed to be leading up to some Fanfic tropes being played straight before he brutally subverted them.

BlackSunNocturne Since: Aug, 2013
#39284: Sep 22nd 2016 at 10:44:48 AM

[up]I think that might be it. tvtropes has colored our viewpoints super hard that we can't look at things like other people do [lol]

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#39285: Sep 22nd 2016 at 10:48:56 AM

TV Tropes Will Ruin Your Life

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
God_of_Awesome Since: Jan, 2001
#39286: Sep 22nd 2016 at 10:49:21 AM

Adam is an abusive prick, a real fucking douche, and he's gotten away with it simply because he is stronger. That fucking infuriating, I imagine it has to be for most people. To us, though, who have seen the various formula of stories dissected before us, who thought we were going to watch this guy get his comeuppance when the story very suddenly seemed it like it veered into being a yuri fanfic for some reason, and then saw that equation seemingly uniquely twisted around, it was interesting.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#39287: Sep 22nd 2016 at 10:50:10 AM

My opinion on these things is that while it's good to try unexpected or uncommon approaches to things, just being unexpected does not make something good.

I see a lot of people who equate the two, as if being subversive for the sake of it actually means anything, and it's huge peeve of mine.

edited 22nd Sep '16 11:03:39 AM by LSBK

God_of_Awesome Since: Jan, 2001
#39288: Sep 22nd 2016 at 10:58:29 AM

Oh sure. It's like spice, you can't just serve a meal on it.

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#39289: Sep 22nd 2016 at 1:57:08 PM

I find that Adam as a stake-upper was done pretty well, myself. Will have to see how Yang's arc progresses, though. Not to mention Jaune's. It'll have to be done delicately, since too much angst and obvious levels in badass will have people clamoring "Stuffed into the Fridge!".

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#39291: Sep 22nd 2016 at 2:11:44 PM

Exactly.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#39292: Sep 22nd 2016 at 2:33:24 PM

One thing that he DOES seem right about though is the Raven thing. By all accounts Raven was supposed to silently save Yang and that was all M and K wanted to do with her until Beacon was down, but Monty really wanted to show her more and get her some lines, so he basically twisted everyone's arm into throwing in that random Vol 2 stinger meeting. With Monty now gone, M and K pretty much choose to ignore that scene in Vol 3 and that's why it never is brought up and Yang acts like it never happened. The Raven vs JNPR thing was another thing Monty wanted that without him to push it they choose to ignore.

From what I've seen from interviews, he seems to be partially right, partially wrong.

He does seem to be right about the Stinger being unpopular with everyone else and Monty sneaked it in as a result - Miles and Kerry have indicated that previously, so that information in Shane's letter wasn't new. However, I don't get the impression from what Miles and Kerry have said in interviews that they're ignoring the Stinger. It's more that they'll make it relevant on their terms now rather than Monty's.

That also seems to be the case for the cafe scene. Shane claims it was left out because no-one except him and Sheena understand the truth, but Miles and Kerry have talked about a Raven scene they were forced to cut from Volume 3. While they didn't confirm it was the scene Shane spoke of, they did say that with the tournament focus, they didn't have the time and couldn't make the scene flow smoothly without breaking up the narrative. Again, they don't seem to be ignoring it, or clueless about what to do with it. They just seem to be making narrative choices.

This is something Monty, Miles and Kerry have talked about together in interviews in the past. Monty makes visually awesome decisions but is crap at storytelling (he was the one who pointed this out). Miles and Kerry don't have Monty's visual creativity, but are much better storytellers. So Monty did the awesome visuals and Miles and Kerry did the story. When you lose one, the other inevitably dominates so now we no longer have the spontaneous visual creativity, the decisions become based on dry narrative instead of exciting Rule of Cool.

Also, it was true the idea of the maiden was just thought in Volume 3? I mean Monty made a big deal of Dust and Aura no being magic and for good reason but is kinda hard to see Ozpin in volume 1 and 2 as anything but excentric teacher

Monty's creation, between Volumes 2 and 3. Everyone apparently loved the idea so the creators worked to change things in Volume 3 to bring the Maidens in, and it wasn't as much work as it sounds to make the Maidens part of the existing plot (which makes me think there was a big plot hole in the original story and that the Maiden idea slotted in so well because it fixed that problem - that's just my personal interpretation, however, and I could be completely wrong).

However, the silver eyes power, Salem and Ozpin's more-than-meets-the-eye past have been indicated from the very beginning - even the pilot episode sets up all these things, and several things occur in Volumes 1 and 2 to further them.

For Jaune being the reason Pyrrha died would have absolutely capitalized on his sentiment about being useless, and be a tragic lesson for him.

Jaune came to Beacon to live up to his heroic ancestral lineage, became a team leader and was responsible for getting his team home safely. However, when the real situation that makes or breaks 'heroes' finally came along, it was Pyrrha who took charge of the situation, tossed Jaune away to protect him, then went to confront the villain alone. Jaune therefore failed his ancestral legacy, he failed as a leader who takes charge in dire circumstances, and he failed as a commander who is responsible for the lives of others.

That ignores the blame he can easily place upon himself for failing to follow Ozpin's instruction and therefore 'letting' Cinder become the full Fall Maiden that was too powerful for him to deal with, who destroyed the tower, and who killed Pyrrha (something a lot of fans seem to blame him for - although not so much around here).

I think what we saw did more than enough to tragically capitalise on his feelings of being useless while striking the balance between the tragedy that makes or breaks the floundering hero and a directly clumsy moment that creates The Scrappy. It has never taken much for the fanbase to criticise Jaune, so I think the writers did a fair job.

This show even sets up Pyrrha as the character who will die/suffer some kind of setback. She's the female Achilles. Her Achilles Heel is Jaune.

Her Achilles Heel was not Jaune (although he was one way her flaw manifested). Her flaw is that she allows others to mould her to suit their needs at the expense of her own desires. If someone she barely knows asks for her help against an annoying student, she'll give it. If someone needs her to be the supportive friend, she'll become it. If someone wants her to be a pedestal, she'll become it. If someone needs her to become the last defence against a magically-empowered super-villain, she'll become it. Every single time, when given a choice between her desires and someone else's, she'll choose someone else's.

Sacrificing yourself for others is the mark of a hero and it's the mark of a doormat. There's a fine balance to be reached here and that's why it can be either a strength or a flaw. For Pyrrha, it was both.

In the end, the fight turned against Pyrrha for two reasons.

The second reason was that a Semblance runs out faster than magic does - briefly seen in the flashback, Pyrrha's fight gave us a better look at the flaw of pitting Semblance against Magic. A Semblance actually can go toe-to-toe with magic, but the key is the length of time this match can continue. Semblances run out. Magic doesn't. That usage limitation is the game-changer.

The first reason was that Cinder was able to distract Pyrrha with the dragon. It has been implied by the writers (although not so much by Shane's letter) that Jaune was originally supposed to somehow 'distract' Pyrrha which gets her killed. Pyrrha does get a distraction - from the dragon, not Jaune, and in a way that adds intrigue to the villains.

So, Jaune still gets a crucial mistake and a tragic failure, Pyrrha still gets a distraction and a death, and we get new clues about the villains.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#39293: Sep 22nd 2016 at 2:58:48 PM

And Tobias doesn't call for Jaune's head on a pike. Everyone's a winner!

Except Yang, she got fucked up, but that's unrelated.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
AJSthe2nd Since: Jan, 2015
#39294: Sep 22nd 2016 at 3:10:01 PM

Jaune didn't technically do anything wrong though. Pyrrha ignored his directions even though he's supposed to be her leader, and physically forced him away because she's more powerful that him.

His flaw is what? He wasn't strong enough to force Pyrrha to cooperate against her will? That's not really what the leaders were supposed to do (and as it has been pointed out, none of the Beacon leaders are the strongest members of their team, if it were Yang and Ruby she could have muscled Ruby away just the same).

The fault really lies with Pyrrha, for choosing to march to probable death against the wishes of the person she's supposed to be subordinate too.

DeanCole Since: Jun, 2015
#39295: Sep 22nd 2016 at 3:18:03 PM

And we've never seen that Jaune since. The Jaune that brought down the Death Stalker with a complex bit of teamwork was abruptly replaced by full-time "Jaune the comedic f*ck-up". In three seasons, he's gone from a Master Tactician to a "mildly competent" buffoon who stuns himself with his own shield and can't lead his team out of a box. That's not improvement; he's actually getting shittier over time.

Thats kinda untrue. First of all calling him a master Tactcian becasuse of the deathstaker fight is overstateing what he did.

He took advantage of a tactial opportunity.Impressive yes, but that hardly makes him a Master Tactician.Anymore than Ruby's a master strategists for coming up with the plan to take down the Nevermore

Secondly its not that he's getting shitter as much as the show keeps focusing on things he's not really good at (one on one fighting, social activities e.t.c)

Their are subtle showings of improvement. But he's lacking major feats.(Which proably is a result of the writers not wanting him be on the level of the others to quickly combined with Tean JNPR not really seeing much action overall)And I agree this is a problem.Hopefully the next Volume will address that

Lastly,kinda of wondering why people treat his performance in the first round of the tourament as some major stake against his leadership skills.When Ruby and Sun arguably did worst in their team matches?

edited 22nd Sep '16 3:21:57 PM by DeanCole

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#39296: Sep 22nd 2016 at 3:18:21 PM

[up][up]Yeah, at that point I think we're done with the whole "leader" thing, and he never really was much of one to begin with. What help could he have possibly offered?

It would have been a hopeless battle either way, but him going too, would have just meant he would have also died. Well, assuming we're not talking about a scenario where he accidentally kills her or something.

edited 22nd Sep '16 3:19:26 PM by LSBK

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#39297: Sep 22nd 2016 at 4:20:58 PM

That ignores the blame he can easily place upon himself for failing to follow Ozpin's instruction and therefore 'letting' Cinder become the full Fall Maiden that was too powerful for him to deal with, who destroyed the tower, and who killed Pyrrha (something a lot of fans seem to blame him for - although not so much around here).

You weren't here when I showed up, huh? tongue

Seriously, we had an argument that raged for several pages over this exact thing. One person called me a troll. Me. Everyone knows me!

Thats kinda untrue. First of all calling him a master Tactcian becasuse of the deathstaker fight is overstateing what he did.

He took advantage of a tactial opportunity.Impressive yes, but that hardly makes him a Master Tactician.Anymore than Ruby's a master strategists for coming up with the plan to take down the Nevermore

Secondly its not that he's getting shitter as much as the show keeps focusing on things he's not really good at (one on one fighting, social activities e.t.c)

They had a golden opportunity to show him at his best - intelligently leading his team through coordinated strategies and clever tactics - during the season three tournament and they blew it on more "LOL Jaune fails at life" comedy before just having Nora win the tournament by herself through being awesome.

Jaune's problem is that his role as comedic Chew Toy keeps coming at the expense of his Character Development, his arc, and...well, his respectability as a member of the protagonist group as a whole. And it's especially jarring here because this was a situation exactly like the Death Stalker where he could really shine, and he's still depicted as a useless moron.

After three seasons, he's only ever been useful once and that was right at the very beginning. That's really bad, and if RT wants us to take him seriously as a valuable member of the group, they need to start giving him some wins.

Their are subtle showings of improvement. But he's lacking major feats.(Which proably is a result of the writers not wanting him be on the level of the others to quickly combined with Tean JNPR not really seeing much action overall)And I agree this is a problem.Hopefully the next Volume will address that

Lastly,kinda of wondering why people treat his performance in the first round of the tourament as some major stake against his leadership skills.When Ruby and Sun arguably did worst in their team matches?

That's debatable as it's really hard to fail as epically as Jaune did, but even were it true, it's because Ruby and Sun have more respectability built up through their contributions in the past. Neither of them can be classified as the hilarious failure, consistently depicted as being terrible at everything for lulz.

edited 22nd Sep '16 4:23:37 PM by TobiasDrake

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AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#39298: Sep 22nd 2016 at 4:26:13 PM

Everyone knows me!

Who are you, again?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#39299: Sep 22nd 2016 at 4:38:32 PM

" he's gone from a Master Tactician to a "mildly competent" buffoon who stuns himself with his own shield and can't lead his team out of a box. That's not improvement; he's actually getting shittier over time."

Because we dont see that in volume 2 and 3, in former he spend more time in that love triangle and we dont see another team battle but we see hm killing Ursa kinda easly in volume 3 they reduce to gag fights but he devopt better a suporting protagonist

If worst would be Ruby who eyes hax aside didnt get any devolptment aside of been Weiss friend(which said more about Weiss than her) and lose her fight with roman and his pimp cane

"the other seemed to be leading up to some Fanfic tropes being played straight before he brutally subverted them."

Yeah, from most part those who kinda like Adam as chararter have opinion the abuser thing reduce him as chararter but overall we like him as badass edgelord(I mean him maiming Yang was crowing moment of awsome)

" Everyone apparently loved the idea so the creators worked to change things in Volume 3 to bring the Maidens in, and it wasn't as much work as it sounds to make the Maidens part of the existing plot "

Yeah, I thnk the same, in my opinion Monty have the idea of dust being diferent from magic(he was very determined about that) and now I think is the reason

Shinigamipeter: can you tell me where you get your avatar? is kinda...there and it got me curious

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#39300: Sep 22nd 2016 at 4:58:03 PM

One person called me a troll. Me. Everyone knows me!

Yes, but that's because I'm partially convinced you're on a Gotta Catch Em All quest to post in literally every thread on this site. tongue

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.

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