TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

RWBY General Discussion

Go To

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#38726: Sep 12th 2016 at 10:15:58 AM

Not everyone knows they're in an abusive relationship in general. People make all kinds of excuses for their partner's behavior. But when push comes to shove, an abusive relationship isn't not-abusive just because the person being abused makes excuses for it.

Finally recognizing that you're in one is the best impetus for leaving that there is. And all this comes right back to the point that even if he was using her as a Morality Chain, that doesn't mean there was ever a time when Adam was not a shitty person. Not-shitty people don't need a Morality Chain, and having one doesn't make them quit being shitty. It just means they have an outlet for their shittiness, a way to mask how awful they are so the rest of the world doesn't notice.

And that brings us right back around to: Blake leaving didn't make Adam a shitty person. Blake left because he already was one. It just took her a while to notice.

And that's canon. Before the romance was ever confirmed, her rationale for leaving was because he's an awful shithead who was leading the White Fang in a terrible direction. Adam's shittiness has always been why she left him. Adding the romantic element changed nothing.

At no point in the entire series has there ever been this noble, heroic, put-upon version of Adam that people are trying to pose. He's been a bastard since he first appeared in the Black trailer. From this exchange:

  • Adam: Plant the bombs.
  • Blake: What about the people on the train?
  • Adam: What about them?

it's been clear that Adam is a reprehensible monster with no redeeming qualities, and he only ever went downhill from there. Every time we learned something new about him, it was that he was even MORE of a bastard.

edited 12th Sep '16 10:20:27 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#38727: Sep 12th 2016 at 10:21:03 AM

She said that he became worse as time went on. It would have been entirely plausible for him to start off with good intention, then become increasingly jaded and violent until he went full terrorist due to the injustices he saw and that the peaceful way got them nowhere, and Blake left him because she disagreed with that. Would have had the same overall effect, with no need for morality chain, abusive relationships, or spurned lovers.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#38728: Sep 12th 2016 at 10:22:25 AM

That's entirely plausible, and it does have room for abusive relationships if his relationship with Blake became more abusive as he slid further and further down the slippery slope.

And it doesn't victim-blame Blake for Adam being a bastard. I give it a [tup]

The relationship can be abusive without having to be the reason she left him, too. We see in the Black trailer that the tipping point for her is when he heartlessly orders her to murder people. And, again, "abusive" doesn't have to mean physically beating her. There are a lot of forms that abuse can manifest in. Some more subtle than others.

edited 12th Sep '16 10:23:49 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#38729: Sep 12th 2016 at 10:25:58 AM

[up]x3 And when I was saying Adam wasn't a shitty person? What I have been trying to comment out is Adam's and Blake's relation with each other. You can act shitty to a lot of people, but good forwards selective people. Are you going to say that Even Evil Has Loved Ones is an abusive trope? You say that every Yandere is abusive? There might be reasons for Blake to abandon Adam, but the reasons might not primarily be between the two of them. The train incident could be when she knew Adam is going too far with his ideals. Just what happened after that is something what can only be blamed on Adam's reaction for it.

Of course none of this matter since the writers went the easy way out.

Essentially, Blake's and Adam's relationship doesn't need to be abusive at all from the beginning, and his behaviour forwards her was due of the train incident, but the writers decided to just go with it.

edited 12th Sep '16 10:32:47 AM by TPPR10

Only sometimes posts
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#38730: Sep 12th 2016 at 10:30:19 AM

Did they say "since the beginning"?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#38731: Sep 12th 2016 at 10:33:37 AM

Yes, every Yandere is abusive.

If the only thing that keeps me from hurting other people is your presence and you know it, then you are being emotionally blackmailed into staying with me, and that is a textbook definition of abuse.

I'd add here that Tobias is right about Adam never having been portrayed as a decent person. His very first appearance, in the Black trailer, sees him overrule Blake's objections and get her to plant a bomb on a train. Forcing someone to do something they know is wrong and that they do not wish to do is an abusive act. Forcing them to do so repeatedly, marks you as an abuser.

Adam was an anchor around Blake's neck that dragged her down into moral territory she did not want to enter. The relationship does not appear to ever have been healthy, and Blake was right to get out. If Adam got worse after she left, that's not her fault, because she is not responsible for his emotional state.

TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
#38732: Sep 12th 2016 at 10:36:57 AM

I can't wait for the thread's reaction when Adam inevitably gets slaughtered.

BlackSunNocturne Since: Aug, 2013
#38733: Sep 12th 2016 at 10:39:12 AM

Possibly contrary to the vision we had of him before.
Welcome to RWBY. We've had this happen since the Red Trailer.

Everyone was thinking "Red" was going to be this stoic badass who don't take no shit. Instead we got.... Ruby.

Also: Thank you Tobias for saying what I was going to, but couldn't because I was asleep [lol]

TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#38734: Sep 12th 2016 at 10:39:48 AM

[up][up] I myself wouldn't feel anything.

I would put a last remark what is "true Adam", but I feel like stringing all those together into one sentence wouldn't be funny at all to write, even to my "extreme conclusions" self note 

PS: Edgelord Adam jokes are old.

edited 12th Sep '16 10:40:23 AM by TPPR10

Only sometimes posts
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#38735: Sep 12th 2016 at 10:40:29 AM

At best, you can say the only good thing about Adam was that we know he wasn't always like this. In her discussion with Sun, Blake is proud of the fact that she had been a peaceful protestor, so Adam wasn't making her or anyone be terrorists back then, at least.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#38736: Sep 12th 2016 at 10:41:56 AM

I can't wait for the thread's reaction when Adam inevitably gets slaughtered.

I give him two volumes. Next season might be a cooldown season where Team CAME doesn't appear much, so next season will finally have Team RWBY fight against their counterparts. Or Adam will chase Blake throughout Volume 4 but Blake won't actually defeat him until Volume 5.

It's going to be hard to justify Adam's malevolence/continued existence after awhile.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#38737: Sep 12th 2016 at 10:44:56 AM

Ambar got to Yandere before me, but I will note that while Even Evil Has Loved Ones is not inherently abusive, there is a point to be made that the same personality flaws that make a person shitty in their public life aren't typically left at the door when they go home. While being a shitty person professionally does not, in and of itself, mean that the person has to be shitty to their significant other, friends, and/or family...it's more likely than not.

The noble asshole who's kind and sweet and wonderful and never treats me wrong but is brutal and harsh and devastating to everyone else and will murder anyone who looks at me funny is a myth. One that many young girls wind up having to learn the hard way. If he's a shithead to everyone else, it's really just a matter of time before it turns on you.

edited 12th Sep '16 10:48:44 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#38738: Sep 12th 2016 at 10:51:40 AM

[up]x6 Adam's death could bring great happiness, I doubt anyone would feel negatively about it...depending on how he died.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#38739: Sep 12th 2016 at 10:55:47 AM

CAME

I'm a little sad about the missed opportunity with names. If Mercury and Adam had names that started with a D and an I, they could have been Team

  • Cinder
  • I
  • Neo
  • D
  • Emerald
  • Roman

They still can be by snubbing Adam and Mercury, but Team CNER isn't a very good acronym. CNDR would work but, again, we're missing a D.

edited 12th Sep '16 10:57:06 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#38740: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:01:40 AM

I'm sure the upcoming season will provide us with a villain with a D name. Probably Dylan.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#38741: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:04:36 AM

Douglass. Douglass Devilray.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
BlackSunNocturne Since: Aug, 2013
#38743: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:08:49 AM

Or you know, a D name that follows the Color Naming Rule?

Like Dwyernote  or Duncannote .

[up]Damn it, you beat me to it. Also: Damn that is the name of a Bitch in Sheep's Clothing if I've ever heard one [lol]

edited 12th Sep '16 11:09:26 AM by BlackSunNocturne

TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#38744: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:13:01 AM

I wish that Cinder/Mercury/Emerald/Neo team was around longer so that there was more reason to use Team CMEN.

Only sometimes posts
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#38745: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:13:20 AM

Regarding Even Evil Has Loved Ones, I'd add that the circumstances in which a character might be decent to one person (or a select group of people) and awful to others tend to be highly specific. If that's happening, you're generally dealing with someone who either has a specific ideology they're acting upon, or a pretty fractured mind.

It's certainly possible for instance, for a Klansman to spend his days lynching black folks and then go home to the all white family that he loves and treats well. And it's possible for a serial killer who has a compulsion to target a specific kind of person to maintain relatively healthy relationships with people who fall outside of that category. Even then, though, it's not exactly common. More often than not, whatever issues drive someone to be a villain are going to spill over into their home life as well. For every Lavrentiy Beria (who was both chief of the NKVD and a serial rapist) who manages to keep their wife and children in the dark about what they are, there's a Josef Stalin, whose personal life was almost as nightmarish as the nation he ran.

It should be noted too that just because someone is abusive, doesn't mean they don't love (or think they love) their victim(s). Many do. When Stalin's much abused second wife committed suicide, he had a nervous breakdown. My friend's emotionally abusive younger sister insists she loves her and is stunned that they aren't talking anymore. And there's plenty of parents who beat their children but would go ballistic if someone else so much as looked at them funny. It happens. Doesn't make the behaviour less horrid, but it's pretty common.

edited 12th Sep '16 11:23:53 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#38746: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:14:32 AM

[up](3) The Color Naming rule is "a color, or anything that makes you think of/reminds you of a color."

  • Frederick Douglass was a black abolitionist from the later 1800's.
  • Michael Douglas is a white actor who played the movie character, Gordon Gekko. Gordon Gekko symbolizes greed, wealth, which is usually symbolized by the American dollar, which is often green and sometimes greenish-yellow.
  • Devilrays are white, black, and also terrifying as f'ck to look at on Google Images.

Monty actually left himself a lot of breathing room with that color rule. At first it seemed restrictive and there were some fan artists/writers that ignored it. They just weren't thinking outside of the box and thought it meant characters could only be named after specific colors and things like "rubies" and other language words for colors.

One could probably make an argument for naming a character "Frank Fractal."

edited 12th Sep '16 11:20:41 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
BlackSunNocturne Since: Aug, 2013
#38747: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:21:41 AM

[up]The Douglass thing is stretching it really hard.

When I think of Douglass, it doesn't remind me of a color, nor does it make me think of a color. Then again, James Ironwood exists [lol]. So there's a possibility that the rule doesn't need both given name/surname to be "a color, or anything that makes you think of/reminds you of a color.", just one.

Because James doesn't make me think of any color whatsoever. I mean, it makes me think of James and the Giant Peach, so I guess it's good?

Also: I need to hear the Insane Troll Logic for "Frank Fractal" [lol]

edited 12th Sep '16 11:27:33 AM by BlackSunNocturne

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#38748: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:24:06 AM

I admit to a little facetiousness. But the color rule is ridiculously inclusive. It's rather fitting.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#38749: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:25:10 AM

It should be noted too that just because someone is abusive, doesn't mean they don't love (or think they love) their victim(s). Many do. When Stalin's much abused second wife committed suicide, he had a nervous breakdown. My friend's emotionally abusive younger sister insists she loves her and is stunned that they aren't talking anymore. And there's plenty of parents who beat their children but would go ballistic if someone else so much as looked at them funny. It happens.

Mmhmm. As has been discussed in other threads, I've been the abuser in an emotionally abusive relationship. It is entirely possible to love your partner with all your heart and soul and still treat them like dogshit because that's the kind of person you are. Abusers don't know they're abusers. They act that way because they think it's okay. They believe it's acceptable behavior.

When Adam says things like, "I'm going to destroy everything you love," he's not thinking to himself, "This is some good abuse I'm doing right here. God, it feels good to be evil." He's thinking to himself, "This will teach her for the awful, miserable, completely unprovoked way that she hurt me." He sees himself as the victim of their relationship 'cause as far as he's concerned, everything was great until she just up and left for no reason.

But that doesn't mean he actually is. Just that, like most abusers, he's blind to the abuse he's inflicted upon her. He never realized that she was suffering under him, because he's selfish enough to be the kind of person who would be an abuser.

edited 12th Sep '16 11:26:20 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#38750: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:25:13 AM

[up][up][up]Maybe the name James is a really obscure reference...

To a place called Robert James Color...

Surely this might be a stretch...

edited 12th Sep '16 11:25:37 AM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.

Total posts: 81,767
Top