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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#38676: Sep 11th 2016 at 9:12:12 PM

When has Adam not been a Card-Carrying Villain? Even discounting the romantic stuff, he was Faunus Darth Vader until he was Faunus Darth Vader Who Also Betrayed All His Principles And Sold Out To Terrorists.

Being an abusive boyfriend and stalker didn't cause Adam to spontaneously lose all his redeeming qualities because he's never had any redeeming qualities to lose. Or depth of character to ruin.

edited 11th Sep '16 9:12:39 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Cross (Don’t ask)
#38677: Sep 11th 2016 at 9:14:29 PM

Pretty sure they squash that by saying he has been abusive towards Blake in the past. Though I don't reminds if they gave specifics.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#38678: Sep 11th 2016 at 9:16:06 PM

DER is a possibility that may only happen if he somehow manages to go even farther with his extremist ways...if he can actually go farther than extreme.

What makes a mad man go even madder? Racism.

edited 11th Sep '16 9:17:30 PM by randomness4

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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#38679: Sep 11th 2016 at 9:25:38 PM

[up] (3)

He had room to grow before. Be an Anti-Hero at the least. We didn't know specifically why Blake left him until Volume 2 and the details were still vague.

[up] Racism? In this show? tongue

edited 11th Sep '16 9:26:58 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#38680: Sep 11th 2016 at 9:27:32 PM

To be honest, I do sort of want to believe that Adam was not abusive forwards Blake when they were together. Even when Adam started to change he wasn't really bad to Blake. When Blake left Adam felt like she betrayed him in multiple ways. So now he wants her to suffer the same way she made him feel, even if its disproportionate.

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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#38681: Sep 11th 2016 at 9:29:45 PM

  • Girl: We should see other people.
  • Boy: I WILL EXTINGUISH EVERYTHING YOU LOVE.
  • Girl: o_o
  • Boy: Um... I mean... you should... stabby stab stab?

I mean maybe I'm sheltered but I really hope this isn't Adam's the common male response to bad relationships.

edited 11th Sep '16 10:09:59 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
BlackSunNocturne Since: Aug, 2013
#38682: Sep 11th 2016 at 9:34:13 PM

[up]It's not. Well.... I hope it's not.

Actually, I thought the Volume 3 commentary confirmed that Adam and Blake were in a romantic relationship together.
Nope, the livestream only confirmed that Adam was abusive to Blake in the past. No specifics on if it was emotional/physical/sexual abuse however.

[down]Uhhh....

edited 11th Sep '16 9:36:35 PM by BlackSunNocturne

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#38683: Sep 11th 2016 at 9:35:34 PM

That's better(?) than crying over a mere rejection.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#38684: Sep 11th 2016 at 9:36:29 PM

He had room to grow before. Be an Anti-Hero at the least. We didn't know specifically why Blake left him until Volume 2 and the details were still vague.

Uh, no. The scary terrorist Darth Vader who sold out his principles did not have room to become an anti-hero. Despite Blake's conflict with Weiss, the White Fang have never been depicted as anything but awful terrorists who need to be stopped. The sympathetic angle comes from the fact that the Faunus have been pushed to such terrible extremes, but at no point has there ever been a "Maybe the White Fang are really good guys" element to them.

Having a sympathetic motivation does not necessarily make someone redeemable, especially when Adam is defined as departing from that sympathetic motivation and Jumping Off the Slippery Slope into full-blown, unjustifiable, reprehensible evil.

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BlackSunNocturne Since: Aug, 2013
#38685: Sep 11th 2016 at 9:38:40 PM

[up]Actually in-series it was mentioned by Blake, and iirc Oobleck, that the White Fang originally started out as a peaceful protest group, until it's original leader(s?) was deposed, and replaced with some extremeists.

Like, in real life terms: White Fang originally were Martin Luther King Jr. types, then they became the Black Panther Party/Nation of Islam

edited 11th Sep '16 9:39:35 PM by BlackSunNocturne

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#38686: Sep 11th 2016 at 9:40:07 PM

Yes, that's the sympathetic motive. It's what they used to be, but her defense of them gets shoved back in her face when she discovers that they're now working with Roman and have abandoned any pretense of being a defensible organization.

They started out benign but by the time they actually appear in the show, they're nothing but evil terrorists. Thus, Blake and Weiss are able to make peace with Weiss realizing that she's been overly racist and Blake realizing that the White Fang are shitheads after all. A "We were both wrong" reconciliation.

edited 11th Sep '16 9:41:23 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#38687: Sep 11th 2016 at 9:48:00 PM

Nope, the livestream only confirmed that Adam was abusive to Blake in the past. No specifics on if it was emotional/physical/sexual abuse however.

Though from who's perspective? Okay, I do admit that I tend to sort of act as Commander Contrarian to most people in this thread, either comically or seriously, but I just don't want to declare that Adam went over the Moral Event Horizon just from one scene. Heck, when I saw the episode I didn't even think that much of the whole thing.

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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#38688: Sep 11th 2016 at 9:52:39 PM

What do you mean, "who's perspective"?

It'd obviously be from Black's perspective.

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VutherA Since: Jul, 2009
#38689: Sep 11th 2016 at 9:59:32 PM

[up][up]Didn't find trying to murder his past at-least friend and cutting off Yang's arm (RAAAARRRRGGGHHHH) to make you think of the Moral Event Horizon?

BlackSunNocturne Since: Aug, 2013
#38690: Sep 11th 2016 at 10:01:17 PM

@TPPR10: Miles and Kerry said that Adam was abusive to Blake in the past. No character's perspective, just Word of God confirmation of a question.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#38691: Sep 11th 2016 at 10:01:38 PM

Honestly, the reason Adam can't cross the MEH is because he wasn't sympathetic to begin with. You can't lose sympathy for him, because why would you ever have had it in the first place?

TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#38692: Sep 11th 2016 at 10:04:02 PM

[up][up] The reason why I said that is because what really makes him abusive? Dunno, if you're going to make someone abusive, do it right away instead of suddenly making someone such. Like in the past.

[up][up][up] Who said Adam wanted to kill Blake?

edited 11th Sep '16 10:04:29 PM by TPPR10

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VutherA Since: Jul, 2009
#38693: Sep 11th 2016 at 10:06:00 PM

[up] The stabbing, mostly.

Yang seemed to have interrupted what looked like a deathblow. If that what he wasn't going for...well, I don't see how torturing a person with stabs is morally any better.

edited 11th Sep '16 10:06:07 PM by VutherA

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#38694: Sep 11th 2016 at 10:06:01 PM

[up][up][up]Because some people don't understand the difference between liking his shtick and genuinely like him as a character?

edited 11th Sep '16 10:06:24 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
BlackSunNocturne Since: Aug, 2013
#38695: Sep 11th 2016 at 10:06:45 PM

[up][up][up]Gee, I dunno, the fact that he tried to cut her head off makes me think that

VutherA Since: Jul, 2009
#38696: Sep 11th 2016 at 10:09:19 PM

[up]Technically at that point, TPPR10 could interpret that as him giving up because she had gotten up and wasn't at his mercy anymore.

edited 11th Sep '16 10:10:15 PM by VutherA

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#38697: Sep 11th 2016 at 10:13:21 PM

They didn't suddenly make him abusive. We'd literally never met him before.

VutherA Since: Jul, 2009
#38698: Sep 11th 2016 at 10:17:27 PM

I misremembered the episode, Yang didn't interrupt anything, Adam just stabbed Blake and went to Yang.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#38699: Sep 11th 2016 at 10:18:35 PM

Should they have made him come off as abusive in that flashback?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#38700: Sep 11th 2016 at 10:20:10 PM

You know what, screw this. Adam is [insert extremely twisted and petty things Adam would do here to the point he is worse than Hitler]. Because one time I try to make a villain more complex than they seem everything seems to go against it.

Though one note I want to bring that when Adam tries to attack Blake when she is protecting Yang (though maybe he knew that she wouldn't go down to an attack like that) he says "Why must you hurt me, Blake?". Honestly, that makes me think that he doesn't want to do anything to Blake, but she insist on driving to those points.

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