I'm kinda expecting Jaune to be Generation Xerox for some reason. That his father, grandfather, etc. all cheated their way into Beacon, were incompetent at first before eventually becoming badass Huntsmen. Hence Jaune not getting booted before now.
In war, you won't always know what's happening. You're still expected to carry out your orders even if you're not sure what's going on or how they're going to help. In a huge warzone conflict like this, everyone carries only a small piece of the fight and must be reliable to carry that piece, even if they don't themselves know how it fits into the large scheme.
In short, when your leader shouts, "GET DOWN!" you get the f*ck down. The man who asks, "What? Why?" is the one that gets shot by the sniper.
What changes is that Ozpin is now aware of Cinder's presence and can stop her from shooting the Fall Maiden.
And hopefully Jaune, but push comes to shove, the Fall Maiden doesn't have a shield. Jaune does. Cinder was only able to take Ozpin by surprise because Jaune was staring at the machine instead of into the hall. She was able to enter the hall, notch her bow, and release an arrow without anyone being the wiser.
That should never have happened, and wouldn't have if Jaune was more competent.
Ozpin's eyes had to be on the machine because he was doing the transfer. That is why Jaune's eyes needed to be pointed outwards. So that if something threatens the transfer, Ozpin can turn around, deal with it, then resume the transfer. Jaune dropped the ball and everything went to shit because of it.
edited 30th Aug '16 12:33:23 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.You're still missing the point that Jaune is in now way a trained soldier. None of them are. That's the entire point of Volume 2's first episode (in fact directly stating as such), as well as a majority of Volume 3's themes being "these are not soldiers. they are kids."
Like, you're shifting way too much of the blame on Jaune here.
edited 30th Aug '16 12:33:44 PM by EpicBleye
"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-MaeThey're not just kids. They're cadets. The entire point of the academy is to teach them how to be combatants.
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Didn't you know? "We're all soldiers now."
Screw This, I'm Outta Here! I'll come back in like four hours.
edited 30th Aug '16 12:38:30 PM by BlackSunNocturne
If a warzone broke out in the middle of BCT, every private being trained would be expected to follow orders. The battle plan wouldn't depend on them unless absolutely necessary but when given instructions like, "Keep an eye out for trouble and alert me if you see anything so that the experienced soldiers can deal with it," they would be expected to carry them out.
That is literally the only thing Jaune had to do. Alert Ozpin that Cinder had entered the hallway.
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They're being trained to but Huntsmen and Huntresses. Combatants who go into hostile territory and kill enemies. A rose by any other name.
edited 30th Aug '16 12:39:21 PM by TobiasDrake
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No they're not. They're only cadets at Atlas' school. At Beacon, Hunters are, in absolutely no way, soldiers. They're not trained like soldiers, they're not made to act like soldiers, they're not expected to be soldiers. A Hunter is a Hunter and a soldier is a soldier and never the two shall meet. Atlas' school, if memory serves, was gaining a lot of flack for making their Hunters join the military.
edited 30th Aug '16 12:40:23 PM by Zelenal
Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!You hear the lyrics to "Divide", "Sacrifice" and "Time to say Goodbye"? A big theme (if rather behind-the-scenes) of the show is that yeah, these kids kick ass and have superpowers and badass weapons and want to fight monsters, but they really don't know what they're getting into, and Ozpin or others may well be using them as disposable pawns in wars they don't understand. I think Yang's arc in particular will delve into this come V4.
Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.So it's acceptable behavior for Hunters to get people killed by incompetently refusing to follow instructions as fundamentally basic as looking for trouble, then? Is that the line of argument here? Jaune dropping the ball was completely defensible because even though his task was so basic a child could do it, he's not technically a soldier and therefore nobody should ever have expected him to be able to do such a basic task?
This is a semantic argument. Ozpin gave Jaune a basic task and he should have done it. He failed to do it, and now people are dead. That he's training to be a "Hunter" instead of a soldier does nothing to mitigate the fact that Pyrrha is dead and Ozpin is missing because Jaune could not perform a basic task.
edited 30th Aug '16 12:44:28 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.@Tobias: Okay, fine, how about you take Jaune's place. In the very same situation. With Pyrrha being like your best friend, screaming their lungs out in something you have no idea what is going on with a possible margin of error. Could you keep a straight face without needing to worry about what is going on here? I bet if you were to replace Jaune with some other member of RWBY or JNPR, they wouldn't be able to focus on just standing there.
I bet that Cinder could have just knocked Jaune out and killed Amber right after.
edited 30th Aug '16 12:47:42 PM by TPPR10
Only sometimes postsActually, is not enterely sure what Hunter do and so far the show have getting a little bit of flak for it.
And alerting Ozpin will get nothing, Cinder is the superior fighter, all she have to do is ether shot Phyrra or Shot Amber(which she did)
Also that wasn a warzone, it was civilian zone in the middle of terrorist atack.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"Sure, they would. Because Ozpin told them he needs them to do it, and he is a leader they respect. He's not some shadowy, untrustworthy figure; he's their headmaster. He's the entire reason Ruby's even in this school, because he saw promise in her.
They might be concerned for her and wonder what's going on, but I'd like to think most of the cast would perform their duty and hold their questions until after it's done - especially since that duty is to look out for danger at a time when the city is overflowing with enemies.
But ultimately, we can't really know how well Ruby or Yang or Nora would fare. They've never been in that circumstance. Only Jaune has, so the only certainty is that Jaune couldn't handle it.
Superior to Ozpin? Doubtful. They seemed equally matched after she absorbed the Fall Maiden's power. Without that power-up, I really don't think she'd be able to hold a candle to him.
Not without him noticing. They were in a hallway with only one entrance, and she can't teleport. She could only have entered from the elevator shaft, and he was supposed to be watching that direction.
And I mean, worst case scenario, Jaune going "ARGH!" as he's dropped by an arrow would still accomplish the task of alerting Ozpin to her presence.
edited 30th Aug '16 12:51:38 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub." He's not some shadowy, untrustworthy figure; he's their headmaster. He's the entire reason Ruby's even in this school, because he saw promise in her."
Except when Jaune enter the msyterious vault who have weird injure woman who aparenly is the real objective behind the atack, in that moment HE become the shadowy untrusty figure, especially since in that moment he put Phyrra in a machine that is giving her huge amount of pain.
"Superior to Ozpin? Doubtful. They seemed equally matched after she absorbed the Fall Maiden's power. Without that power-up, I really don't think she'd be able to hold a candle to him."
She doesnt need to, only to land a arrow to Amber and the deal is done, Ozpin is distract and Jaune is newbie, what else could happen?
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"Here's what I don't get- Ozpin allowing Ruby to come into a school she shouldn't be in is cool because Ozpin says it's okay, but Ozpin allowing Jaune to come into a school he shouldn't be in isn't? Because it's not-so-subtley hinted that Ozpin is aware of Jaune's transcripts, and he specifically says that the picked the leaders for a reason (including Jaune).
He saw promise in Jaune too.
Except this isn't shown anywhere in the series. What we do see is a bunch of teenagers attacking giant monsters despite being told to run to safety in the finale.
Not to mention the fact that this isn't their duty. Their duty is to be students. Their duty is to learn. They're not soldiers.
What we know is that Jaune heard a blood-curdling scream of his friend, and went to make sure she was safe. You mean to tell me that Yang wouldn't go and see what was up if, say, Ruby was in Pyrrha's situation?
edited 30th Aug '16 1:00:42 PM by EpicBleye
"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-MaeShe didn't mist into existence with arrow already nocked and fire it off within a nanosecond. She has to enter the hallway, take aim from much further down than she got to, and fire the arrow past Jaune - who has a really sweet shield - and a now-alert Ozpin.
That she had time to enter the hallway, walk like halfway down it, nock an arrow, line up her shot, then fire without anyone noticing she was there is precisely why I'm condemning Jaune so hard. He didn't just happen to glance back for a moment, he abandoned his post and ran over to the machine, frantically trying to figure out what's happening.
Not to mention the fact that this isn't their duty. Their duty is to be students. Their duty is to learn. They're not soldiers.
I'm talking about Jaune specifically. Ozpin told him to look out for danger. The city was under siege, anything could happen, and Jaune abandoned his post. Cinder was able to kill Amber without anyone intervening because the one person who was supposed to be watching outwards, wasn't.
"Lookout" is not a complicated job. And it's certainly not one that's exclusive to soldiers. Children engaging in mischief have lookouts.
I'd like to think Yang would trust that Ozpin and Ruby know what they're doing, even if she doesn't.
edited 30th Aug '16 1:04:59 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.That is literally exactly what Yang would not do. It's creating a false image that Jaune should live up to, when the reality is that most other primary characters would do the same thing.
edited 30th Aug '16 1:05:32 PM by EpicBleye
"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-MaeYang has proven she has poor impulse control (see her scuffles with Merc and Adam). Nora has proven she has troubles standing still. Ruby, perhaps.
Actually, no, was it established that Cinder just strutted in? Who's to say she wasn't waiting there already? Ozpin and the others would be too much in a hurry to look around for unwanted visitors. Plus, for all it matters, Jaune only looked away for what, a moment?
edited 30th Aug '16 1:07:50 PM by FergardStratoavis
That's ridiculous. If Cinder had already been there, she would have killed the Fall Maiden ahead of time and then ambushed Ozpin as he stepped off the elevator. She has nothing to gain by waiting around.
We don't see how she enters but there's only one point of entry and she comments on how clever it was to hide the Fall Maiden under the school right after firing her arrow, as if she's reacting to it for the first time. It's implied she followed them in.
And again, Jaune didn't just turn around for a brief time. He whips around, runs over to the machine, then bumbles about it. His back is turned for long enough for Cinder to enter the room, strut down the hall, and shoot Amber. More than enough time for Jaune to have gone, "HEY!" and for Ozpin to whip around and deal with her.
Cinder got to make a sneak attack out of what should have been a brawl because the one person whose job it was to see her coming wasn't doing it.
edited 30th Aug '16 1:14:03 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.There is an elevator. She's between the elevator and Jaune/Ozpin/the machine when she shoots. It's not that complicated.
She might not have actually taken the elevator down but instead descended the shaft, but still, it's not exactly a mystery for the ages. She followed them to the Vault then shot Amber when she saw an opening.
edited 30th Aug '16 1:15:39 PM by TobiasDrake
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Also, "enemy sighted"? It's like you expect those kids to be soldiers.
edited 30th Aug '16 12:30:43 PM by FergardStratoavis