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Nettacki Since: Jan, 2010
fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#35627: Jun 4th 2016 at 3:06:21 PM

[up] Villain Sue anyone? [lol]

Surprise she didn't went "RYUU GA WA TEKI KURAU!"

edited 4th Jun '16 3:07:06 PM by fasoman1996

Uni cat
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#35628: Jun 4th 2016 at 3:19:26 PM

Cinder is not a Villain Sue.

Torchwick isn't dead.

Pyrrha is.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#35629: Jun 4th 2016 at 3:23:48 PM

On the "Would Penny have rights?" thing: The fact that she can generate an aura means she has a soul, which means she's alive. It was brought up a few times in-series regarding "Aura=Soul and all living creatures have an aura". So more than likely she would, and likely does.

And the fact that Ironwood refers to her as a girl and not anything else proves that even he knows she's not Just a Machine.

Like I said, Ruby considers it a no-brainer. The trouble is the state of things in-universe.

Nothing like Penny has existed before, so standard definitions probably never had something like her in mind. The idea that Aura = soul = living being applies to humans, faunus, animals and plants. As a result, Aura = soul = living being does not automatically mean equal human rights.

Do plants and animals in Remnant have human rights? The faunus certainly don't - it's something they've been fighting for a long time to be accorded. So why would Penny automatically be granted human rights just because she has an Aura?

My head cannon is that Ozpin would have a problem with Penny's creation, partially because he would comprehend this complication very quickly (especially given that Penny wanted to switch schools). The reason I find Ironwood's reference to 'girl' is because I think it's a subconscious revelation. I wouldn't be surprised if Ironwood has not consciously given any thought to this kind of complication, especially if he's focussed on the purpose for which Penny has been created, but on some subconscious level, he does regard her as more of a person than a machine. Given that Penny didn't regard herself as real, I don't think she's been treated by the people who are in the know as fully human - she's allowed an illusion of the status, but her words to Ruby indicated an illusion was all it was.

It was Ruby who felt the issue was a no-brainer. My guess it would therefore have to rely on someone like Ruby to bring this to everyone's conscious consideration.

edited 4th Jun '16 3:25:13 PM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
TooManyIdeas Magical Princess From Another Dimension from Twilight Town (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
Magical Princess From Another Dimension
#35630: Jun 4th 2016 at 3:25:11 PM

[up][up]The thing about Torchwick is that he was the right villain for the lighter tone of V1 and 2, not so great for the darker tone now. Killing him off makes sense.

edited 4th Jun '16 3:25:24 PM by TooManyIdeas

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#35631: Jun 4th 2016 at 3:34:21 PM

It's been my head cannon for a long while that Dust is fossil fuel.

Th episode 1 narration does imply there's something about the history of humans, dust, Grimm and Remnant that humans don't know, and which would be a big problem should humans find out.

If it's fossil fuel, it's probably running out. What will humans do then?

And if it's fossil fuel, that means it's come from some kind of living being...

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#35632: Jun 4th 2016 at 3:48:26 PM

[up] (2) We don't have a backstory for him, what his connection with Neo is - we know Neo isn't dead yet, so its going to be awkward to have her explain their partnership, if she does at all, which makes Torchwick.

We can't say he isn't "right" for the current tone when he hasn't been explored at all. And if the show is going to have a darker tone next season, and it might not, Torchwick was the first character to show us the dark side of Remnant.

From the beginning, the threat of him scheming to steal Dust was pretty much the only bad guy plot going on. It's an incredible waste of time and character design to write him off just because we introduced an unexplained, alien princess in a 20-second stinger.

Getting eaten by a giant bird is far too anticlimatic. When Penny died, time slowed down, we saw a bunch of horrified reactions. When Yang lost her arm, shit got real. When Pyrrha died, Ruby went Neon Genesis Evangelion on everything within a 10-mile radius.

Lastly, we don't know what his Semblance is yet. Seeing as everyone gets a big dramatic moment to introduce their Semblance in some fashion, not showing off your Semblance equates to Plot Armor.

edited 4th Jun '16 3:52:02 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#35633: Jun 4th 2016 at 3:51:20 PM

[up][up]Magic fossil fuel? From magic creatures...with magic skeletons?

That seems crazy.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#35634: Jun 4th 2016 at 3:54:55 PM

[up][up] Dude, he was never meant to last this long in the first place; he was always meant to be a two-bit criminal that was basically Cinder's attack dog, it's the fanbase that kept him alive as long as he did, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was always meant to get killed off just like Pyrrha was.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
TooManyIdeas Magical Princess From Another Dimension from Twilight Town (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
Magical Princess From Another Dimension
#35635: Jun 4th 2016 at 3:55:16 PM

[up][up][up]Does he even have a semblance? If so, why didn't he use it?

The purpose of Torchwick in my eyes was to provide a villain who was intimidating but believably overpowered by teenagers. He was an obstacle that was overcome. He didn't need to be there anymore.

edited 4th Jun '16 3:55:26 PM by TooManyIdeas

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#35636: Jun 4th 2016 at 4:13:14 PM

"but the in-universe reason he worded things the way he did was to bait Winter."

But Qrow feeling are sincere sncere, he bait Winter by using her strong feeling for Atlas an her superior, he is not just rolling here but mocking her overconfident on Atlas military, after all Winter and Ironwood are part of it and Qrow is pissed with it for their move.

"If people think about things, they'll spot the holes in her speech, and rational enquiries ruin the powerful emotional response she's after. "

What holes? I meant the only one people could do would be "who is this women and how it know what it know?" but she erase all involment of her, also she never said anything itself but implied to the public(in loaded way of course) Ironwood cant said much without reveal is involment with the brotherhood and anything else will look like thin valied excuse(because it is) what they have to offer that is not truth is just faith.

So yeah, Cinder and Salem beat the brotherhood in their own game

"hy was Penny created? Let's assume the Atlas government does know. Are her father's motive, Ironwood's motive, and the Atlas government's motive the same or three different, competing ones?"

Which make even more complicated to explain why she is there and why is a secret

"Ironwood told Penny her purpose is to save the world. We know Ironwood thinks human lives can be saved by using technological solutions instead"

which it make you think, HOW she is going to save the world? Cinder poof the idea of being use by grimm.....maybe have something to do with Maidens? a girl who can use aura...can use a Maiden power? and so own, more question that make Atlas,James and everyone else position more dificult to trust

"The fact that she can generate an aura means she has a soul, which means she's alive. It was brought up a few times in-series regarding "Aura=Soul and all living creatures have an aura". So more than likely she would, and likely does."

But human CANT be repair as she does, I wil said she dosent have right because right now she is the first robot and therefore the conecept is unknow, maybe Penny and Blake will bond in that

Anyway I start to like more RWBY chibi, maybe for using sarcastic humor, that box joke was awsome!

Also, Weiss is more coffie girl? that is canon

And favorite semblence....Neo would be

And about Ironwood, well he is part machine now so he could feel Penny is the oposite, after all Ironwood have not reason to distrust someone for being metal

[up]And yet he manage to hold his own in two season and deliver Ruby a good bit of the old ultraviolence, I dont mind him dying but like that? ughhh

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#35637: Jun 4th 2016 at 4:56:35 PM

Dude, he was never meant to last this long in the first place; he was always meant to be a two-bit criminal that was basically Cinder's attack dog, it's the fanbase that kept him alive as long as he did

That sounds like pure speculation.

Nothing wrong with that, but I don't want to be edit-warring about this later. So far, everyone that's said "Torchwick's definitely dead" has done so on the grounds "because he wasn't a very important character to me."

Until some Word of God gets cited here, I don't buy it.

edited 4th Jun '16 5:04:36 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#35638: Jun 4th 2016 at 5:04:41 PM

No, that was definitely Word of God but it was in a livestream so digging up the original source might be hard.

I think the way he was killed was totally stupid, but the part of him having a larger role due to his popularity is definitely true. Maybe his popularity can save him agian?!

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#35639: Jun 4th 2016 at 5:14:35 PM

Soble-vision:

  • Everyone: "This character is dead."
  • Soble: "No he isn't."
  • "Yes, he is."
  • "Where's your proof?"
  • "He got eaten by a f'cking bird, what more do you want?"
  • "Word of God."
  • "It was in a livestream, Nobody knows which one, but it was definitely stated somewhere. So for all future notice, this character is definitely dead."
  • "o_o"
  • "True chiz."

15 minutes of Google searching and here we are:

10:00-11:00: Roman's 'death scene. Give me a minute.

edited 4th Jun '16 5:23:44 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#35640: Jun 4th 2016 at 5:16:27 PM

Literally one person has responded to your request for a source.

It's been dug up before, but I am not the right person to find it.

Maybe wait a fucking second before acting like we're bullshitting you.

edited 4th Jun '16 5:16:49 PM by Saiga

Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#35641: Jun 4th 2016 at 5:20:33 PM

It might also be buried somewhere in Monty's Twitter.

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#35642: Jun 4th 2016 at 5:31:23 PM

[up] That's been mentioned in several interviews with the creators. One of the more recent ones was the livestream when they discussed Roman's death. They talked about how he had been a one-episode introductory villain but the fan response was so big, and they liked the voice actor so much, they kept the character around far longer than had been originally planned.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#35643: Jun 4th 2016 at 5:35:34 PM

Ah, it's on the volume 1 director's commentary. I don't think I can legally provide that.

There's also a link to the whole livestream here.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#35644: Jun 4th 2016 at 5:44:44 PM

[up] (3) This has been brought up before, multiple times, and I've never seen any evidence for it. So forgive me if I'm a bit "shut up and prove it."

Okay:

  • 10:10 - "That was... getting rid of Neo was fun."
  • 10:25: - "Life goes on."
  • 10:27 - "I'm so glad we got to see a badass Roman Torchwick before... before he got digested."
  • 10:34 - Barbara: "Everyone's like, "Oh he's still okay ... shit happens."
  • 10:40 - "More than Penny, more than losing Yang's arm, I was so upset about losing Torchwick. I love villains man, he's one of my favorites. He's just misunderstood.
  • 11:00 - "Oh hey, great, he just died!"
  • 11:15 - "Caught him monologing..."
  • 11:20 - "There were so many fans that had like... all year long, they were asking me like: when does Roman get out? Free Roman 2015. And yeah, you know, I was like, becareful what you wish for. We hit three episodes in and... yeah."
    • "Now he's really free."
    • "It has not been a good year for characters I voice."

Alright, hoisted by my own petard here, but... It's definitely said. Whether that means anything I question.

Nothing they said was a straight-faced, "yup, definitely dead." This is a group of entertainers, people who sit around a couch, drink, curse, and act snarky in general while taking about their content. Several of their livestreams have them teasing RWBY, cracking vulgar jokes, being generally silly. Me asking for Word of God was the wrong thing to ask for as proof. (not so much 'lie' as 'overshoot'.

  • They said, "we will have a LGBT character next volume." There was a Sage fan who was male, cheering him on.
  • Barbara said, "we'd see Yang give someone a well-deserved beatdown in Volume 3." Who was that? Mercury? On what grounds did he "deserve" a beatdown before the events of Volume 3? And was it really a "beatdown?"
  • They said we'd find out more about Raven meeting Yang in Volume 3. Did we learn anything about that meeting in Volume 3?

On the other hand, they rarely bullshit about Character Death Maine, Tex, most of Project Freelancer, several characters from the early seasons, probably Felix, Sharkface. The exceptions being Tex (for a time) and Church. So it wouldn't be that hard to believe they really did kill Torchwick in the most anticlimactic way possible for comedic value.

Ugh, I feel sick and sheepish. Sheepish because I was wrong and sick because Torchwick's actually maybe 90 percent confirmed dead.

I still say there was more that could've been done with the character.

edited 4th Jun '16 6:19:13 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#35645: Jun 4th 2016 at 5:51:11 PM

[redacted]

edited 4th Jun '16 5:54:05 PM by Karxrida

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#35646: Jun 4th 2016 at 5:57:35 PM

[up][up] This is why I said, when that livestream first aired, that they've skirted a bit around the subject of Roman being dead, that I'll understand if the fandom does interpret that as a finalised, incontrovertible statement from the creators that Roman's dead, but that I think they've left themselves some wiggle room for the future should they ever need it.

After Volume 3, the way they talked about Pyrrha's death was similar. There's that wiggle room they've left.

Personally, I'm happy for Roman and Pyrrha to be dead. I appreciate creators who don't bring characters 'back from the dead' and I think it would be cheap for them to be brought back (especially Pyrrha). On the other hand, in a show like this, there can be some merit for creators to make sure they don't back themselves into a corner with the things they say in interviews.

On the other hand, I don't remember the creators ever saying there would be an LGBT character 'next volume'. I remember them saying they really wanted one to appear in the show, and were cagey about whether any of the existing characters might turn out to be gay, but they also said that they felt that, given the young ages of these characters, they're young enough to still be learning who they are as people and to be exploring their identities, including their sexual identities, so imagine that it would be 'earned' - in other words, the character would learn naturally, through the process of their character development, what their sexual orientation genuinely is.

I don't remember the creators ever pinning down an exact volume in which it would happen, however.

edited 4th Jun '16 6:00:56 PM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#35647: Jun 4th 2016 at 6:17:32 PM

n/a

edited 4th Jun '16 6:18:11 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
BlackSunNocturne Since: Aug, 2013
#35648: Jun 4th 2016 at 6:49:22 PM

"It helps that in an interview about the show, Monty pointed out that there will be LGBT characters appearing in the show (if they aren't there already) and that practically the entire cast wants it to happen"

Monty never said anything about "next volume", and I doubt the Sage fanboy was the one Monty was talking about

AJSthe2nd Since: Jan, 2015
#35649: Jun 4th 2016 at 7:40:09 PM

Word of God doesn't necesserily mean anything. Of course they're gonna say they're dead so any return later is a surprise. They've said Rv B characters are definitely never coming back and they have (But sometimes they haven't so it could go either way) so RT is not innocent of this. Marvel said Captain America was definitely dead and never coming back movies be damned, and guess what? He came back. Go T had everyone lying too. People do it all the time. Hell one anime did the reverse, claiming a character survived when they never did.

Should Torchwick come back? Probably not. After another season or two of development they'd have far surpassed him in strength anyway. As Ruby grows to the point she can rival Cinder, her proper villain, Roman with his pimpcane and slow moving flare shots wouldn't even be a bump in the road for her. Roman's not gonna get any stronger, he's an adult at his peak vs the growing teenagers.

I think they should have waited one more season so they could show that Ruby surpassed him, have her kick his ass and then kill him off as a display of her growth, but they missed that chance.

BlackSunNocturne Since: Aug, 2013
#35650: Jun 4th 2016 at 7:49:41 PM

[up]Comic books are not a good example regarding death, as the ONLY person in comics to stay dead is Uncle Ben.

Also: Marvel Comics =/= Marvel Movies


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