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NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#32176: Apr 14th 2016 at 5:26:05 PM

No it doesn't Deus ex Machinas solve problems.
Problem: Ruby found herself faced with an opponent that was almost certainly going to kill her. Solution: silver-eyed warrior powers out of nowhere. Result: Ruby saved by a Deus ex Machina.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
DarthSion Statement: All meatbags must die from Slokovia Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Statement: All meatbags must die
#32177: Apr 14th 2016 at 5:28:08 PM

When Blake and Yang meet up with them they are being chased by bounty hunters: the next episode is a flashback to how that happened

Cut off one head 2 more shall take it's place! Hail Hydra
DeanCole Since: Jun, 2015
#32178: Apr 14th 2016 at 5:28:55 PM

[up][up]That is speculation.We dont know what would have happen had Ruby fought Cinder

edited 14th Apr '16 5:31:11 PM by DeanCole

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#32179: Apr 14th 2016 at 5:31:34 PM

I totally lost what the thread is even talking about. It moves so fast

Maybe i will go into hiding until RWBY Chibi comes out. It's kinda tiring to see only mindless speculation. (Although the criticism about the tone shift is interesting)

edited 14th Apr '16 5:31:43 PM by fasoman1996

Uni cat
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#32180: Apr 14th 2016 at 5:31:43 PM

[up][up][up][up] By our definition of the term, no, it's not a Deus ex Machina, insofar as it didn't occur at the climax of the plot; an unexpected element introduced at the end of the first act is specifically stated to be an example of Chekhov's Gun rather than Deus ex Machina as far as tvtropes is concerned.

edited 14th Apr '16 5:33:26 PM by CaptainCapsase

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#32181: Apr 14th 2016 at 5:35:15 PM

Nohr's Hammer alone is enough to receive a bounty on it's head.

A dangerous duo like that, along with Ren...that's quite a big bounty worth pursuing.

edited 14th Apr '16 5:36:32 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
EndlessSea LEGENDARY GALE from oh no you don't Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
LEGENDARY GALE
#32182: Apr 14th 2016 at 5:35:24 PM

I'm quite certain that at no point in the first two and a half volumes, at the very least, was there any mention of Ruby having silver eye powers that could stop time or whatever the fuck happened there.

but HOW?
DeanCole Since: Jun, 2015
#32183: Apr 14th 2016 at 5:36:39 PM

[up] No.But it was pointed out to be important.

EndlessSea LEGENDARY GALE from oh no you don't Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
LEGENDARY GALE
#32184: Apr 14th 2016 at 5:36:57 PM

But what was pointed out to be important?

but HOW?
BlackSunNocturne Since: Aug, 2013
#32185: Apr 14th 2016 at 5:38:58 PM

[up]First sentence said by Ozpin, to Ruby: "You have silver eyes". Volume 1, Chapter 1

Volume 3's finale shows that they're important, and have power.

Chekovs Gun, not Deus ex Machina

edited 14th Apr '16 5:39:19 PM by BlackSunNocturne

DeanCole Since: Jun, 2015
#32186: Apr 14th 2016 at 5:40:51 PM

Silver eyes.It was the first Opzin noticed about her.Her eyes were also showen in the second volumes intro if I recall correctly. Probably Miles and Kerry attempt to remind us that it was important without directly referencing it in series again

edited 14th Apr '16 5:45:19 PM by DeanCole

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#32187: Apr 14th 2016 at 5:43:30 PM

Yeah, the thing is not Deus ex Machina given the foreshadowing.

However, i think they could have handle the thing better IMO. The scene was too convinient to my liking

Uni cat
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#32188: Apr 14th 2016 at 5:45:21 PM

The problem is what the Silver eyes do...knowing they exist beforehand doesn't really mean anything.

It's still so very convenient and unexpected.

edited 14th Apr '16 5:46:25 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
BlackSunNocturne Since: Aug, 2013
#32189: Apr 14th 2016 at 5:46:42 PM

[up][up]It seemed to me like it was a combination Traumatic Superpower Awakening/Die or Fly situation.

edited 14th Apr '16 5:46:49 PM by BlackSunNocturne

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#32190: Apr 14th 2016 at 5:49:53 PM

That is speculation.We dont know what would have happen had Ruby fought Cinder
Technically, yes, we don't know for a fact what would have happened. But Ruby's combat performance (barring silver-eyed plothax) is somewhere in the neighborhood of "above average", while Cinder after absorbing Fall's full power ranks in at about "demigoddess". I don't think it's unwarranted to say that Cinder would have defeated Ruby.

By our definition of the term, no, it's not a Deus ex Machina, insofar as it didn't occur at the climax of the plot; an unexpected element introduced at the end of the first act is specifically stated to be an example of Chekhov's Gun rather than Deus ex Machina as far as tvtropes is concerned.
Perhaps you're thinking of an older definition? The current Deus ex Machina page doesn't mention anything about "it must occur at the climax of the plot". The closest it comes is saying it happens "often near the end". Even so, I would argue that it fits the more stringent definition that you're using because it certainly occurs at the climax of season three.

No.But it was pointed out to be important.
A single line that could have meant anything in the first episode of the series and is never brought up again doesn't really qualify as foreshadowing for something that happens in the season three finale. Hell, the Deus ex Machina page even says it can be mentioned earlier, as long as it's still "unexpected" when it actually happens.

If anyone tries to tell me that they honestly expected Ruby to use her mysterious powers as a silver-eyed warrior to save the day during the season three finale, I'll call them a liar to their face.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#32191: Apr 14th 2016 at 5:51:38 PM

[up] "Not to mention that a Deus ex Machina short of the climax is a Chekhov's Gun; if the saving force complicates the story afterwards, it's the introduction of a new element."

edited 14th Apr '16 5:51:50 PM by CaptainCapsase

DarthSion Statement: All meatbags must die from Slokovia Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Statement: All meatbags must die
#32192: Apr 14th 2016 at 5:52:07 PM

I kinda did (and I walked right into that didn't I)

Cut off one head 2 more shall take it's place! Hail Hydra
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#32193: Apr 14th 2016 at 5:54:09 PM

Pyrrha's death served the narrative purpose to unlock the main character's secret power. That was her role in the story. She fulfilled that role.

Now Ruby has to learn how to consciously call that power and then to master it. That'll probably take her a while.

Pyrrha's death will probably also serve the secondary narrative purpose to focus the deuteragonist's resolve and so enable him to discover and master what he can do, given that she was the first person who believed in him and she was his first mentor.

@Native Jovian: Actually, a lot of fans were expecting the silver eyes to mean something about in terms of abilities (it's an old storytelling trick). When the seasonal maidens story was told, a lot of people believed it means she was a Maiden (some actually speculated it might be a different power entirely, but most were in the Maiden camp). By the time the final episodes were showing, everyone was expecting Pyrrha to die (that had been flagged from the beginning and it was pretty obvious it would happen by the end of the volume with the way things were going), and a lot of people expected Ruby's hidden power to burst out either against Cinder or the dragon.

So, people didn't expect the specific power she displayed and a lot of people didn't expect the death itself to trigger it (although plenty of people did), but they did expect something to trigger Ruby by the time the finale had ended.

The way it happened may have surprised but the fact it had happened at all did not.

edited 14th Apr '16 6:01:40 PM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#32194: Apr 14th 2016 at 5:54:24 PM

"Deus ex Machina are sudden or unexpected. This means that even if they are featured or referenced earlier in the story, they do not change the course of nor appear to be a viable solution to the plotline they eventually "solve"."

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#32195: Apr 14th 2016 at 5:55:57 PM

[up] That's one of the many cases of trope pages that contradict themselves then. It was much worse a few years back, and there was natter everywhere. In some ways it's nice, but in other ways we've moved ever so closer to being wikipedia in a different format.

edited 14th Apr '16 5:58:13 PM by CaptainCapsase

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#32196: Apr 14th 2016 at 5:56:06 PM

You all knew the Silver eyes would save the MC...but it's up to you to deny your initial thoughts.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#32197: Apr 14th 2016 at 5:57:34 PM

[up][up] That's one of the three requirements for a Deus Ex Machina though.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
DarthSion Statement: All meatbags must die from Slokovia Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Statement: All meatbags must die
#32198: Apr 14th 2016 at 5:58:38 PM

Dues ex Machinas are unavoidable. Eventually the writer will slip up

Cut off one head 2 more shall take it's place! Hail Hydra
DeanCole Since: Jun, 2015
#32199: Apr 14th 2016 at 5:59:07 PM

Technically, yes, we don't know for a fact what would have happened. But Ruby's combat performance (barring silver-eyed plothax) is somewhere in the neighborhood of "above average", while Cinder after absorbing Fall's full power ranks in at about "demigoddess". I don't think it's unwarranted to say that Cinder would have defeated Ruby.

Which is a all that matters.You say that Ruby could have lost based on her previous showings.I say Cinder could have lost based on the damage she suffered at prryha hands .At the end of the day we dont know.

As for Deus ex machina here are the rules for it to be considered one form the tropes page.

Deus ex Machina are solutions. They are never unexpected developments that make things worse, nor sudden twists that only change the understanding of a story.

Deus ex Machina are sudden or unexpected. This means that even if they are featured or referenced earlier in the story, they do not change the course of nor appear to be a viable solution to the plotline they eventually "solve".

The problem a Deus ex Machina fixes must be portrayed as unsolvable or hopeless. If the problem could be solved with a bit of common sense or other type of simple intervention, the solution is not a Deus ex Machina no matter how unexpected it may seem.

The one that I am concerned about is in bold

edited 14th Apr '16 6:03:19 PM by DeanCole

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#32200: Apr 14th 2016 at 6:02:14 PM

[up] Mhmm. Anyway, regardless of whether or not it necessarily qualifies, it's not necessarily a bad thing to throw something unexpected at the viewers early on in the plot; I personally saw pretty much everything else coming 2-4 episodes in advance if not more, excluding Roman's death and the silver eyes thing, and given this is something that's absolutely going to be expanded on in the future, I don't mind that second surprise that much.


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