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EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#32001: Apr 13th 2016 at 12:21:02 PM

Why now, and not before? Because the writers said so. It felt like a ploy for cheap drama rather than a natural progression of the plot.
I mean, generally the authors do decide what happens in their story. Grimm had already been established as dangerous creatures, but it's only now that they've effectively gotten a large population of grimm to attack citizens.

In fact, that entire block is explained through the story.

The hunters are expected to fight Grimm, and because of their training a few Grimm don't pose much trouble.

Volume 2 establishes that Grimm getting into civilian populations is a really bad thing since citizens can't fight the Grimm and they'll certainly die (I will give you that Volume 2's didn't help to establish that). It also establishes that hunters can't handle large populations of Grimm, and that there are incredibly powerful grimm that are waiting to attack.

Volume 3 follows suit when incredibly powerful grimm attack, large populations attack, and it's attacking citizens. This is why it's treated as dangerous.

She doesn't do anything, things simply happen to her. She's paralyzed with indecision, then forced by events, then killed.
No one tells her to do anything. She's always the one to make the decisions.

She's the one who questioned taking on the burden of the fall maiden. It wasn't about not wanting to protect others, it was about sacrificing everything she wanted to protect others.

She's the one who decided to take the fall maiden's powers when stuff started going wrong. Ozpin didn't tell her to come, she decided on her own that she needed to accept her destiny.

She's the one who decided to fight Cinder even without the fall maiden's powers. Cinder didn't go after Pyrrha, she decided to fight Cinder.

To make this clear: Pyrrha died because she made the choice to fight Cinder. Nothing else caused this.

Stuff hardly "just happened" to her. She went out of her way to take action.

A lot of your issues with the finale involve straight up ignoring actions taken by the characters.

She goes from a confident, competent huntress-in-training at the start of the season to getting Stuffed into the Fridge so Ruby has a reason to activate her Deus ex Machina by the end of it.
Her death doesn't at all count for the trope. Another troper has already been told off for trying to claim that her death counted as the trope several times. It doesn't.

If she were Stuffed into the Fridge she would've been killed and left for Ruby to find. That's not what happened. She went to fight Cinder, got killed, and as she was killed Ruby saw and activated protag powers due to the event.

I'll give you Ruby's eyes being a Deus ex Machina, but when you view Volumes 1-3 as being the introduction to the whole story (because it is), her using her silver eyes power at that time is hardly unusual for a story. Hell, it's actually common for protags to unleash their special power when shit hits the fan in the beginning of stories, and then learn to deal with their power over the course of the story.

It abandoned her characterization as an interesting exploration of The Ace with serious Lonely at the Top issues and instead fed her to The Plot Reaper in a way that was contrived and unsatisfying.
It didn't do that at all. I already explained the point of her character in being forced to choose between her destiny and everything she's ever wanted. This characterization was completed by the end of volume 2 when she realized that she wasn't lonely anymore after having both RWBY and JNR with her.

But she never actually decides — is it okay to be just a tiny bit selfish and want something for herself, instead of giving everything up for the good of others? Or does she have to regretfully let go of her personal feeling if that's what's necessary to do the most good for the most people?
Again, she did decide. When she went to attack Cinder.

I've explained that at length over the last few pages of the thread?
I've read your explanations, but I still don't understand where you're coming from. The show explains what's going on and why it's happening.

edited 13th Apr '16 12:23:37 PM by EpicBleye

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#32002: Apr 13th 2016 at 12:21:06 PM

And Jovian, I'll respond in-depth once I have a little time to, uh, give a full read to your posts. You have a tendency towards the wall-o'-text, mate.
That's true, but generally because I respond to several people in a single post — otherwise after I posted one response, people would respond to that while I was still writing other responses, and I'd never catch up.

In more general terms, I write long posts because I'm arranging my own thoughts as much as I'm responding to someone else. So they tend to get sort of stream of consciousness style rambly. I can work on keeping the wordcount down if it's really bothering people.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
AJSthe2nd Since: Jan, 2015
#32003: Apr 13th 2016 at 12:22:41 PM

As far as Ruby's eyes, I always figured the reason Ozpin kept encouraging them to go after Torchwick and the White Fang, despite them obviously being ill prepared for it, was in hopes that the stress of it would force Ruby's eyes to activate.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#32004: Apr 13th 2016 at 12:23:20 PM

" Hell, even if they wanted to kill her off, they could have had her accept the power, use it to fight Cinder, and lose. The plot would have ultimately ended up in the exact same place, but it would have been a much more satisfying end to Pyrrha's character arc."

Not much that would reduce her to same thing, "NOW I HAVE THE POWER TO PROTE- *DIES"" that it, Phyrra never question her decision to protect everyone but NOW she have the change, is the moment of truth, she could go on and live with Jaune or face danger now matter where it is

Also freeing Yang would engate the part of framing her and protecting Blake, they use her short temper nature against her and paid for it, what you see will reduce that to nothing

And for last a thing: this thread is freaking fast

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
DarthSion Statement: All meatbags must die from Slokovia Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Statement: All meatbags must die
#32005: Apr 13th 2016 at 12:27:43 PM

I can't wait for the day volume 4 starts I'll wake up on Sunday, go to rooster teeth's site... And then the servers will crashevil grin

Cut off one head 2 more shall take it's place! Hail Hydra
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#32006: Apr 13th 2016 at 12:31:33 PM

I wonder how many times the site crash because of RWBY.

Per season.

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
DarthSion Statement: All meatbags must die from Slokovia Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Statement: All meatbags must die
#32007: Apr 13th 2016 at 12:35:12 PM

That's how it starts the fever the rage that turns good fans... Cruel

Cut off one head 2 more shall take it's place! Hail Hydra
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#32008: Apr 13th 2016 at 12:39:07 PM

I mean, generally the authors do decide what happens in their story.

[...]

No one tells her to do anything. She's always the one to make the decisions.

[...]

Her death doesn't at all count for the trope.

I'd really appreciate it if you'd respond to the meat of my comments rather than quibbling over technical definitions.

Yes, authors do decide everything that happens in their stories. My point was that there was no logical Watsonian reason why fights only had consequences in the season three finale and not at any point before. The Doylist explanation is because the writers were executing a tone shift that they'd planned from the beginning but delayed for various reasons, but without Word of God about it — if you're just watching the show itself — it comes off as arbitrary.

No, no one literally forces Pyrrha to do anything, but her choices are very much dictated by events. If Beacon hadn't been under attack, she certainly would have taken longer to decide, and her ultimate decision may have been different. The fact that she tries to accept the power and then isn't actually allowed to receive the power is another example of things being dictated by events rather than allowing her to make a free choice. Her decision to fight Cinder was clearly her trying to make up for the fact that she failed to safeguard Fall's power as Ozpin had asked. She feels responsible for its loss and tries to take it back or die trying. That's not a free choice either — it's something she feels obligated to do, not something she does because she wants to.

And her death may not technically fit the requirements of Stuffed into the Fridge because it was happenstance that Ruby showed up just as Cinder killed Pyrrha rather than Cinder deliberately arranging it so that Ruby would find Pyrrha's corpse, but the end result is extremely similar enough that the comparison is relevant. It's very obviously the fact of Pyrrha's death that triggers Ruby's freezing whatever. If Ruby had gotten there ten seconds later, with Cinder standing there alone instead of Ruby seeing her make the killing blow and incinerate the body, it's unlikely that Ruby's power would have activated like it did. That's what I'm getting at.

Not much that would reduce her to same thing, "NOW I HAVE THE POWER TO PROTE- *DIES*
Making a legitimate try and failing valiantly would have been far more satisfying to me than muddling through without making a firm decision and then dying anyway.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#32009: Apr 13th 2016 at 12:49:40 PM

"That's not a free choice either — it's something she feels obligated to do, not something she does because she wants to."

All decision are influenced by events, she was force into a decision by the cabal early one, also she did have the option to flee after all Ozpin said to her and Jaune to conact the other, she chose facing her

"Making a legitimate try and failing valiantly would have been far more satisfying to me than muddling through without making a firm decision and then dying anyway. "

She did the same, even more consider the great gap between her and Cinder, what you said will only make things even more pointless "yeah phyrra get power only to fail" THAT would make Cinder a villian sue.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#32010: Apr 13th 2016 at 12:51:36 PM

Jovian, if Pyrrha had gotten the Fall Maiden's power, fought Cinder, and still died, every more people, you included I suspect, would be calling her a Villain Sue, and at that point, I'd be more inclined to agree. I'm sorry that this didn't turn out to be your kind of show, but I for one was just about ready to call it quits after two and a half seasons of the plot going absolutely nowhere.

edited 13th Apr '16 12:52:14 PM by CaptainCapsase

DarthSion Statement: All meatbags must die from Slokovia Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Statement: All meatbags must die
#32011: Apr 13th 2016 at 12:52:00 PM

Cinder' not a villain sue she took quite a few hits during her fights with Ozpin and Pyhrrah

Cut off one head 2 more shall take it's place! Hail Hydra
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#32012: Apr 13th 2016 at 12:54:04 PM

[up] That's not quite what a Villain Sue is, and moreover, it's rather premature to be throwing that label around; saying Cinder is a sue is like watching the first half of The Dark Knight Rises and concluding that Bane is a Villain Sue, to use the example provided by your avatar.

DarthSion Statement: All meatbags must die from Slokovia Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Statement: All meatbags must die
#32013: Apr 13th 2016 at 12:56:22 PM

Well she's a big girl

Cut off one head 2 more shall take it's place! Hail Hydra
fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#32014: Apr 13th 2016 at 12:58:16 PM

Yang is a big girl, Top Heavy material!

That reminds me. Where the fuck where Emerald and Mercury doing while all the shit happened?

Uni cat
DarthSion Statement: All meatbags must die from Slokovia Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Statement: All meatbags must die
#32015: Apr 13th 2016 at 1:00:48 PM

Each other bow chika wow wow

Cut off one head 2 more shall take it's place! Hail Hydra
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#32016: Apr 13th 2016 at 1:00:54 PM

[up] Getting the fuck out of dodge I'd expect.

DarthSion Statement: All meatbags must die from Slokovia Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Statement: All meatbags must die
#32017: Apr 13th 2016 at 1:03:33 PM

Honestly I'd like to see Emmy get worfed by a blind person

Cut off one head 2 more shall take it's place! Hail Hydra
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#32018: Apr 13th 2016 at 1:04:34 PM

Like Adam? evil grin

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#32019: Apr 13th 2016 at 1:04:50 PM

[up][up][up]it seen droy influence is lingering in youevil grin

[up][up][up][up]If yang is top heavy, what Winter is?evil grin

But yeah, while the show have flaws, Phyrra arc was well done, she chose face death to run and I can respect that

edited 13th Apr '16 1:06:50 PM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
DarthSion Statement: All meatbags must die from Slokovia Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Statement: All meatbags must die
#32020: Apr 13th 2016 at 1:05:32 PM

Adams a bull he probably just has bad eyesight

Does anyone else want a sniper duel?

edited 13th Apr '16 1:08:56 PM by DarthSion

Cut off one head 2 more shall take it's place! Hail Hydra
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#32021: Apr 13th 2016 at 1:08:28 PM

My point was that there was no logical Watsonian reason why fights only had consequences in the season three finale and not at any point before.
I just told you in my previous posts. The previous fights had no consequences because they were low-risk, and newer fights have consequences because there's more, stronger enemies and it's high risk.

No, no one literally forces Pyrrha to do anything, but her choices are very much dictated by events. If Beacon hadn't been under attack, she certainly would have taken longer to decide, and her ultimate decision may have been different.
You're comparing Pyrrha's choices and decisions to hypothetical situations which didn't happen and wouldn't happen. It's fine to wonder what could have been, but it looks like you're criticizing the plot because it isn't matching up to how you wanted it.

Events in the plot affect characters' decisions and choices. Criticizing the plot because it affected a character's decision seems very short-sighted and ignores the fact that people are affected by the situations they find themselves in.

The fact that she tries to accept the power and then isn't actually allowed to receive the power is another example of things being dictated by events rather than allowing her to make a free choice. Her decision to fight Cinder was clearly her trying to make up for the fact that she failed to safeguard Fall's power as Ozpin had asked. She feels responsible for its loss and tries to take it back or die trying. That's not a free choice either — it's something she feels obligated to do, not something she does because she wants to.

She still is the one to make the choices, regardless of the situations that influenced her decision.

As for Pyrrha "making up for the fact", that's just one character interpretation, which doesn't match what was happening with her character arc. Another interpretation that does match up with her character arc is that she decided that she still has a destiny to live up to, with or without her powers.

edited 13th Apr '16 1:09:03 PM by EpicBleye

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
WillDeRegio Since: Jan, 2015
#32022: Apr 13th 2016 at 1:10:57 PM

Cinder is not a Villain Sue. Magnificent Bitchnote , probably. If she manages to spectacularly dupe the other three kingdoms, kill the maidens, and absorb their powers to become the Archmaiden of Evilness, then yes, she can be called a Villain Sue.

On a different topic, since Adam Taurus is most likely a Bull Faunus, I think his mask might either block the color red, to prevent him lashing out at anything rednote , or it's red on the inside to make him pissed off all the time.

[up][up] I do! cool

Sheesh, the speed at which you guys post is astounding.

edited 13th Apr '16 1:12:16 PM by WillDeRegio

Prany Since: Apr, 2013
#32023: Apr 13th 2016 at 1:31:14 PM

I skipped little over hundred pages. Left at "bew-hew, Cinder's more competent than saturday morning villain" and "is bumblebee any good? cast your vote!" and before dRoy had returned (and, bruh, thread was so much nicer because of it). So, did I skip over anything interesting?

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#32024: Apr 13th 2016 at 1:34:58 PM

Aww, I love you too. waii

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#32025: Apr 13th 2016 at 1:38:35 PM

Well, Bumblebee is indeed no good, so there's that.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.

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