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FrozenWolf2 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#31901: Apr 12th 2016 at 7:42:32 PM

Ozpin might have been asking to get Glynda and Qrow to help with the ****ING dragon.

Praise be to the absolute Queen
fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#31903: Apr 12th 2016 at 8:22:11 PM

I have to said, I like Vale map, it feel modern and all stuff

And while vale is not threat for now, I dont think it would be that for long, more grimm and comming and I thing it would become a grimmfest fairly quickly.

And my real question would be, WHEN we will se Goliath in action? they are so freaking slowevil grin

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#31904: Apr 12th 2016 at 9:03:48 PM

The school was the only thing that fell.
I made the assumption that the school was in the city (ie that the grimm had to pass through some part of the city to reach Beacon) since the layout of Vale was never really clear to me. With the posts of the map and such (thanks!), I see that that's not actually the case, so it makes a lot more sense how they could say Beacon fell but Vale was safe. That was me misunderstanding the situation (I could blame RWBY for not making that situation clear, but that would be quibbling), so my bad on that one.

The fight itself suggests that he could take her in a one-on-one fight, because that's what he was doing.
We see him not getting crushed in the first thirty seconds. We don't see anything after that. Later, we see Cinder still in fighting shape, while we don't see Ozpin again. The simplest conclusion is that Ozpin was defeated and either killed or captured. We could posit hypotheticals all day long where maybe X, Y, or Z happens instead, but we basically have to make assumptions to fit the conclusion we want.

Sorry, but wasn't your main point about the antagonists being above everyone else?
My main point is basically that the antagonists have been able to do whatever they want and the protagonists have been unable to meaningfully oppose them. Whether the exact reason is because they have overwhelming combat power, infallible planning, the advantage of surprise, something else entirely, or some combination of those various things isn't especially relevant. The point is that the villains are able to accomplish their goals without the heroes being able to mount a significant opposition, which is extremely unsatisfying to watch.

The villains have never failed in any significant way. The only exception to that at all is the fact that Roman was captured for a while, but Roman was never a major player, and the fact that he spent a while in military custody didn't amount to anything in the end — and Cinder sent someone to break him out (again, succeeding without much trouble) when it was convenient.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#31905: Apr 12th 2016 at 9:13:01 PM

[up]Actually for many seen roman fail again and again was unsatisfaying, volume 3 maybe went to hard in the other direction but I was this close to abandoned the series for it.

"hether the exact reason is because they have overwhelming combat power, infallible planning, the advantage of surprise, something else entirely, or some combination of those various things isn't especially relevant."

IT IS relevant because that make them good villians or not, the season 2 was awfull in part because the story take great pain so the girl have be in the right moment and save the day, specially how Blake beat Roman so badly. the plan of Cinder wasnt so bad, it just it didnt have weird set back that apear out of nowhere.....or a least until the very end.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#31906: Apr 12th 2016 at 10:14:27 PM

My main point is basically that the antagonists have been able to do whatever they want and the protagonists have been unable to meaningfully oppose them. Whether the exact reason is because they have overwhelming combat power, infallible planning, the advantage of surprise, something else entirely, or some combination of those various things isn't especially relevant. The point is that the villains are able to accomplish their goals without the heroes being able to mount a significant opposition, which is extremely unsatisfying to watch.

You Can't Thwart Stage One is a trope for a reason.

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
FrozenWolf2 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#31907: Apr 12th 2016 at 11:10:14 PM

This was the moment that establishes the THREAT the villains pose

I'd understand all the accusations of invincible villains if this had been six volumes straight of the heroes failing. The Villains won... after a season build up to it.

Volume 1 had very little villain activity... hell the Main ones didn't show up till the last minute of the credits!

Volume 2 had them being sneaky but still their threat hadn't been established.. Hell most people thought the finale completely ruined any chance at tension with how easily the Train plan got mopped up

Volume 3 is largely the footsteps of the monster before its unleashed.

I mean if we're sitting on Volume 6 and Ruby and Co has not yet defeated anybody of note... Okay Yeah the villains are a bit too untouchable.

Praise be to the absolute Queen
AJSthe2nd Since: Jan, 2015
#31908: Apr 12th 2016 at 11:30:49 PM

So as someone on another board point out, thanks to Beacon going dark and them moving RWBY and JNR out of the schools apparantly for the rest of the story, this effectively means the main characters will never become official hunters.

Yeah Qrow and Winter said that hunter training isn't really all that major and you can learn more out in the world if you can survive it, Cinder Mercury and Emerald are far superior to the heroes because of this, and in the end they'll probably be several times as strong after being out there than they would have if they remained at Beacon, but it still means they'll never have the prestige and respect that official hunters get because they'll be drop outs.

It's kind of sad, and it will be really frustrating if nobody in series takes them seriously because they don't have the official title.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#31909: Apr 12th 2016 at 11:45:58 PM

[up]To be fiar, the series haven explore what the hell is a hunter and why is so important, so far they range from "Mercenary" to "Anime superheroes" so is hard to care.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
AJSthe2nd Since: Jan, 2015
#31910: Apr 13th 2016 at 1:01:53 AM

Regardless of how the show flops around what a hunter is, that was what the girls wanted to be and, the fact is they're forever going to be labeled trainees, no matter how skilled they become, because they didn't move through the ranks properly.

Qrow can talk about how only the world can train you right all he wants, but HE got to complete his training officially. RWBY didn't.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#31911: Apr 13th 2016 at 1:04:16 AM

[up]that is what Ruby wants, the other barely know their reasons so far, also not knowing what a hunter is make dificult to care, at least with Naruto we know the duty of a hokage, just as plot go it become hollow, is a problem with long runner shonen

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#31912: Apr 13th 2016 at 1:18:49 AM

Wait there was a map? Where is it? Because I had always thought that Beacon was in Vale as well.

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#31913: Apr 13th 2016 at 2:47:34 AM

[up]It's on the wall back in Volume One in the scene with Roman just after team RWBY gets formed.

With regards to the effectiveness of the villains and people going on about how there's no way team RWBY or JNR can stop them, remember that they were only ever as successful as they were because they went to great lengths to make sure nobody knew they were even bad guys to begin with. CME's fight against Amber relied on them getting the drop on her and outnumbering her, and even then it was a close one with one cheap shot from Cinder being all that got them the victory and saved Emerald from getting offed. You can't say anything about the fight between Mercury and his dad since it happens off screen, from what we can put together from the clues (Mercury's dad being an alcoholic, the house being on fire, and Merc's skills as an assassin) would be that Merc's dad wasn't at 100% when they fought and that Mercury winning put him on his last legs so to speak (because he has robo-legs *beat* I'll see myself out). They flee once Qrow shows up despite having the numbers advantage and half the Fall Maiden's power and Mercury bolts the second he spots him at Beacon, so clearly there are enemies even they think twice about before confronting.

Note that once they've lost the element of surprise they don't have the same successes. In the brief glimpses we see of the Ozpin/Cinder fight Ozpin is firmly in control, dodging every attack a fully-powered Cinder throws at him and is landing every single hit he makes on Cinder. From all the evidence we do have Cinder with the complete fall maiden's powers was struggling in a one-on-one fight with an old man who Word of God states didn't fight as much anymore because his age made it difficult for him.

And when she fights against Phyrra she is clearly outclassed during every close combat section. her victory came about because she used the Grimm Dragon as a distraction to break out of a chokehold and used a trick arrow to take Phyrra down. Likewise Emerald's power is only useful in 1v1 situations and can be nullified with the buddy system and loses it's effectiveness if you're observant enough to notice the small details like Amber did. Mercury is harder to peg since we've only seen him fight against a single opponent and have no idea how his style adapts to multiple targets, but it's likely he's more suited to 1 on 1 against humans. I predict that Volume 4 will show that team CME is a lot less dangerous (bar Cinder) if you strip away the element of surprise and fight them on even ground.

DarthSion Statement: All meatbags must die from Slokovia Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Statement: All meatbags must die
#31914: Apr 13th 2016 at 3:20:59 AM

Legend of Zelda has conditioned me to accept inconsistent geography

Cut off one head 2 more shall take it's place! Hail Hydra
Emperordaein Grant us eyes from Australia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
Grant us eyes
#31915: Apr 13th 2016 at 6:47:00 AM

wild mass guessCinder doesn't show up until the end of Volume 4... And right as she's about to fight, she impailed from behind by the big bad for Volume 5wild mass guess (For reference)

Lady of Ashes: Pyrrha

(I may have been playing Dark Souls III alot)

edited 13th Apr '16 6:47:21 AM by Emperordaein

A corpse should be left well enough alone...
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#31916: Apr 13th 2016 at 6:49:20 AM

@RWBY Not Graduating: The whole issue can be side stepped if some other headmaster just foregoes the process due to extenuating circumstances and hands them Huntsmen Diplomas.

DarthSion Statement: All meatbags must die from Slokovia Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Statement: All meatbags must die
#31917: Apr 13th 2016 at 6:51:19 AM

Yeah I mean Harry became an arour even though he was a dropout

Cut off one head 2 more shall take it's place! Hail Hydra
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#31918: Apr 13th 2016 at 7:08:01 AM

With Beacon currently shut down, none of its students are going to be graduating any time soon anyway unless they transfer to one of the other academies.

In the current political climate, I can see the other schools aggressively recruiting Beacon's students for themselves.

WillDeRegio Since: Jan, 2015
#31919: Apr 13th 2016 at 7:16:07 AM

I don't think Team RNJR can classify as "drop-outs." The school isn't exactly... attendable at the moment. Hell, Qrow could say they get credits for being on a mission. (They kinda are.)

Meanwhile, Yang has sick leave, Weiss is probably being enrolled at Atlas by her dad, and Blake... is A.W.O.L. (Cue Blake jokes)

edited 13th Apr '16 7:19:47 AM by WillDeRegio

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#31920: Apr 13th 2016 at 7:37:58 AM

Actually for many seen roman fail again and again was unsatisfaying
Roman's actually my favorite antagonist on the cast. He's got the most believable motivation note , he puts up a good fight against the protagonists but isn't overwhelmingly powerful, and goes back-and-forth with the heroes (sometimes he wins, sometimes they win, etc). His arrogant jackassery sometimes grates, but generally speaking he was fun to watch.

IT IS relevant because that make them good villians or not
To you, maybe, but not to me. My complaint isn't "they can never be beaten in a fight", it's "the heroes can do nothing to stop their plans". Why the heroes can't stop their plans doesn't matter, it would bother me regardless of the why. Of course, you seem to have disliked season two, whereas I have few complaints about it, so we're probably coming from very different places on that subject.

You Can't Thwart Stage One is a trope for a reason.
When your "stage one" comes at the end of season three, you have screwed up somewhere. Like I said, if the shift had come earlier, it wouldn't have been nearly so annoying, but suddenly changing the rules after two and a half seasons is bleh for me.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
DarthSion Statement: All meatbags must die from Slokovia Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Statement: All meatbags must die
#31921: Apr 13th 2016 at 7:40:08 AM

No they arent' villain sues...yet. If they manage to go to season 6 without suffering any major losses then they can be classified as villain sues

Cut off one head 2 more shall take it's place! Hail Hydra
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#31922: Apr 13th 2016 at 7:42:44 AM

The fact that they don't fit the arbitrary definition of Villain Sue that you're declaring doesn't change the fact that I did not like season three because the heroes were completely unable to affect the villains' plans in any way.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
DarthSion Statement: All meatbags must die from Slokovia Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Statement: All meatbags must die
#31923: Apr 13th 2016 at 7:44:16 AM

They kept the city from being fully taken over and stopped the dragon Grimm

Cut off one head 2 more shall take it's place! Hail Hydra
WillDeRegio Since: Jan, 2015
#31924: Apr 13th 2016 at 7:55:14 AM

And, we got to see facial expressions other than smugness on Cinder's face.

DarthSion Statement: All meatbags must die from Slokovia Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Statement: All meatbags must die
#31925: Apr 13th 2016 at 8:48:33 AM

That WHAT was just hilarious

Cut off one head 2 more shall take it's place! Hail Hydra

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