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FrozenWolf2 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#30826: Mar 26th 2016 at 12:30:29 PM

Where has Cinder had moment where she needs to display an emotion beyond smug assurance?

You're complaint would be fine if Jessi kept the same tone in every scene regardless of whats going on.

outside of the one moment of "WHAT THE **** IS THIS!" hasn't been in a scenario where she needs to show fear or anything like that.

Praise be to the absolute Queen
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#30827: Mar 26th 2016 at 12:42:46 PM

[up]Mostly when she is alone with Emerald and Mercury, she dosent to keep that since they both now her and her plan already, as I said Roman display diferent thing depening of the moment or person, Cinder is just....the same.

[up][up]the issue with Ward was two: he suffer MASSIVE badass decay but at the same time isnt good enought to have ether redemption or bieng a anti hero, so is just a punchable guy, also if you want to compared him with the villian of this show, the best option is Adam.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
strangerthenever Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#30828: Mar 26th 2016 at 12:51:40 PM

Is Monty's color naming rule apply to team names as well? I think I remember something about, "Reminds you of a color." in there.

RNJR obviously pronounced as Ranger. Rangers usually protects the forests. Forests are green, and sometimes will go red/orange in the autumn, then white in winter. And of course, trees are brown. Also the multitude of tiny plant lives like flowers and fungi.

I think that should counts, but is it really?

A stranger is like the shadows.It is so common to the world everyone will just ignore them.
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#30829: Mar 26th 2016 at 1:10:25 PM

'Ranger green' is actually a color name. It is a rather grayish kind of green, apparently common in military gear.

Cross (Don’t ask)
strangerthenever Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#30831: Mar 26th 2016 at 1:27:26 PM

And there's that. Oh, wasn't there a Buzzfeed episode where one of the RT crew used RNJR to call this particular team Ruby is in by the end of V3?

Closest thing to canon until they used it in the show, I guess. Go Go Aura RNJR! [lol]

A stranger is like the shadows.It is so common to the world everyone will just ignore them.
AJSthe2nd Since: Jan, 2015
#30832: Mar 26th 2016 at 1:37:56 PM

I wouldn't worry about the Ward situation here. The reason it got old was because they kept patting themselves on the back over how they tricked the audience (and because they couldn't write Brett Dalton out because he was contracted like everyone else) and did the whole "Maybe he can be redeemed LOL NOPE FOOLED U" like 3 times. I give Kerry and Miles more credit than that to be that irritating about it.

I don't expect much from Cinder being sympathetic. Like I said no amount of tragedy in her past excuses the fact that she's allying with an obviously evil thing to ruin the stability of the world and make mankind suffer. Especially when just about everyone in this show has tragedy in their pasts and you don't see them deciding the world needed to be screwed because of it.

I expect it will make her actions understanable in that she's not just doing it because she enjoys the feeling of evil like Rita Repulsa or something, but it will still come up short with Ruby telling her it's too bad her past sucks but you don't see Blake or Weiss trying to end humanity over the abuse they suffered before laying the smackdown.

You know thinking about it, any name probably makes someone somewhere think of a color, so how is that really supposed to work? I mean if there was a character named Rider, I would think Kamen Rider=Green and Red.

strangerthenever Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#30833: Mar 26th 2016 at 1:52:52 PM

There's also Rider from the Fates series, who is predominantly purple. And the Ghost Rider, who is black and red.

By that logic... does that mean that Monty's color naming rule is moot or something? Way past midnight here; not thinking straight. I'm sure I'm wrong about this.

A stranger is like the shadows.It is so common to the world everyone will just ignore them.
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#30834: Mar 26th 2016 at 1:56:48 PM

Cinder used to work in a sex hotline when she was young and her voice stuck in that tone

I wish I came up with this guess. evil grin

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#30835: Mar 26th 2016 at 2:06:15 PM

Granted, that led to the idea of her being a child sex slave, so... >.>

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#30836: Mar 26th 2016 at 2:14:04 PM

For kids!

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
strangerthenever Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#30837: Mar 26th 2016 at 2:27:56 PM

If Cinder's based on Cinderella... imagine her stepmother and stepsisters. I bet Salem killed them and made Cinder be eternally loyal to her or something.

A stranger is like the shadows.It is so common to the world everyone will just ignore them.
WillDeRegio Since: Jan, 2015
#30838: Mar 26th 2016 at 2:31:25 PM

Watch as we find out Cinder's stepmother is vying for the position of "Worst Parent Ever. Of all time." The kind that would give Freud a field day.

wild mass guessSalem is Cinder's stepmom.wild mass guess

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#30839: Mar 26th 2016 at 2:56:25 PM

[up][up]In the Cinderella tales, Cinderella marries the prince and is then given control over the fate of her wicked relatives. Depending on how Disneyfied the story is will depend on how nasty the family's end is, but usually it will involve the wicked relatives being killed off in some karmic way and Cinderella and her prince live happily ever after.

However, in some tales, the fate she chooses for her wicked relatives makes her understand that she possesses, for the first time ever, real power. It goes to her head. The fate she chooses is really quite dark, even compared to whatever horrors the wicked relatives have put her through. This starts her down a road that takes her straight through abuse of power and He Who Fights Monsters into the kind of Big Bad that ends up being put down by the prince's family, either so that he can marry someone truly nice, or so their child can grow up into someone nice.

Salem is almost certainly playing a "fairy godmother" role to Cinder (albeit an evil one) - or Cinder thinks of the role in that way, at the very least. However, Cinder's probably from one of the Cinderella-as-villain versions of the fairy tale - the person who started off good[1], but her need for power to overcome the evil in her life turned her into an even worse kind of evil in the process. Salem wouldn't be responsible for that, but would encourage it for her own plots (and God help Cinder when Salem's finished using her - because Salem will one day finish using Cinder).

Besides, I have a sneaking suspicion that Cinder is supposed to in some way reflect the beginning of Salem's own descent. The Episode 1 narration does indicate that Salem started off good, otherwise there wouldn't be things requiring a smaller, more honest soul that Ozpin thinks she's "long forgotten".

[1] By good, I mean that a child is born neither good nor evil, and instead of suffering as a good - but poor/abused/insert whatever here - child, she decided she'd take control of her own life and seek the kind of power that would ensure she'd never be controlled by anyone again... and what she hasn't yet realised is that the person who has given her the power to seemingly do that has her in exactly that controlled position that Cinder wanted the power to escape. She'll probably only understand that when it comes time for her to be killed off, making it karmic, which suits Cinderella-style fairytale stories.

edited 26th Mar '16 3:07:39 PM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#30840: Mar 26th 2016 at 3:43:56 PM

Like I said, the issue with Ward is that aside of betraying his team and being self-described hero he never become a better villian or being redeemed, so they just having around acting pathetic and become a punshing bag, in fact Im fearing Miles and Kerry would do this to both Adam and Cinder considering the fanom just want their head right now.

And with Cinder...like I said it all depent of Ozpin backstory and how awfull was his mistake, if he created Salem and Cinder them he deserved what he got, so far you could said you have the good(RWBY and JRPN) the grey(Ozpin and cia) and the dark(Salem and minions)

And about Cinder....well if they adapt her Cinderella parallels, them being a princess will change with being a Hunter, the princes will be Ozpin and Salem will be fairy goodmother here, Cinder song pretty much said "I wont be a sacrifice for you" so she will discover the awfull truth about him and swich side...with of course the Irony here that she will be sacrifice by Salem.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
AJSthe2nd Since: Jan, 2015
#30841: Mar 26th 2016 at 3:51:07 PM

It's not even about Ozpin than Pyrha Penny and the other hundreds of people that probably died in the attack along with the people that are going to die in the future because they destablized the system that was keeping the world save and stable.

Did they all deserve this because Ozpin might have done something bad to Salem, and Cinder might have had a bad childhood? No they did not, and nothing Cinder says can justify it.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#30842: Mar 26th 2016 at 4:00:53 PM

[up]Again depend of what Ozpin is hiding, her song and Salem since to implie what he does isnt really helping so there is really something missing in this system, something he is hiding on purpose, is not just something bad he did to Cinder and Salem, is something BIG, how much? well...time will tell.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
AJSthe2nd Since: Jan, 2015
#30843: Mar 26th 2016 at 4:47:18 PM

Which is frankly ridiculous because the hunter system seems to be working quite well. Everyone is alive and living mostly prosperous lives, the only problem is they can't expand past the kingdoms already there because of the Grimm.

But that's far better than what's about to happen, with the Grimm overrunning the kingdoms and even more people dying. Plus Salem and Cinder's dialogue doesn't suggest they have any love for humanity. And Mercury and Emerald are actually disgusted by the idea of people being happy in their lives. They are just not good people.

An imperfect system of protection is better than leaving humanity to it's fate.

edited 26th Mar '16 4:48:06 PM by AJSthe2nd

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#30844: Mar 26th 2016 at 5:12:05 PM

The biggest problem with trying to figure out what they'll do with Cinder and Salem is that at the moment they are complete blank slates in terms of history and motivations. The closest we have to a motivation for either is the songs Sacrifice and Divide which both hint at Ozpin being less good than we've been led to believe. While I doubt we could get a straight up redemption from Cinder, I wouldn't rule out a redemption equals death or her going to prison and accepting the righteousness of Ruby's cause as her ultimate fate.

[up]Yes, but all we've seen of the four kingdoms consists of one academy with the occasional trip to one city. What we've been told is there is huge problems with discrimination against Fanus, Atlas is a military dictatorship, apparently things aren't much better in Haven, entire villages can just disappear overnight and that's happened often enough for it to no longer be considered surprising. Both villain songs imply that Ozpin is manipulating and controlling other people, sending them to their deaths to achieve his own goals and keeping others subjugated (weather or not this is specifically to Ozpin or to the systems they represent is up in the air, although Salem has singled Ozpin out so it could be the former).

I suspect a reveal in Volume 4 is that even without Salem and Cinder's plans the world of Remnant is less shining that previously thought.

edited 26th Mar '16 5:31:02 PM by Shaoken

MABfan11 from Remnant Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#30845: Mar 26th 2016 at 5:32:19 PM

am i the only one that thinks that the "i'm not your sacrifice" line is Cinder talking about Salem?

Bumbleby is best ship. busy spending time on r/RWBY and r/anime. Unapologetic Socialist
Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#30846: Mar 26th 2016 at 5:42:00 PM

That would be an odd one, since she asks;

"What if all the plans you made, Were not worth the price they paid? Even with the lives you stole, Still no closer to your... Goal."

That seems odd if she's helping Salem's plans along. Granted Cinder acknowledges what's happening at Vale is horrific, but at the moment it seems she's fully onboard with Salem's goals.

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#30847: Mar 26th 2016 at 7:49:42 PM

We've already got signs from things Ozpin himself has said that he's some kind of The Atoner but I'm willing to bet that, no matter how bad Ozpin's past turns out to be, it'll be abdication of responsibility to say that Salem's actions and behaviour can all be pinned at his door. At worst, he'll have created her (and all this manipulation is probably him trying, probably unsuccessfully, to find a solution to that mistake), but that doesn't absolve Salem of her plots and machinations.

All these songs that suggest that Ozpin's sitting on an Awful Truth also suggest that Salem is trying absolve responsibility of her own crimes by blaming Ozpin for absolutely everything. These songs also suggest that the reason she's targeting humanity to get back at Ozpin is because Ozpin (in a Gene Roddenberry sort of way) has faith in humanity's potential and it seems that she thinks the best way to destroy Ozpin is to destroy humanity's potential for good. So, even the darkest songs actually suggest both good and bad about Ozpin - he seems to have a dark past but is, at the same time, some kind of advocate or guardian of humanity's potential.

When a person is determined to wipe out the human race just to get back at one man, that person is completely evil in their own right. We can assess that one man on his own (de-)merits, completely separate from that person's own actions. At the moment, however, while I'm expecting something truly awful to come out about Ozpin, I think we'll find that when the full truth comes out (we'll hear the worst possible light initially and probably learn the full - more rounded - truth over time) that his crimes will never justify the path Salem is walking now.

The very best outcome I can see for her is that 'two wrongs don't make a right', in which case Ozpin would have to have committed genocide against her race, or a race she represented/advocated/watched over (to make her attempt to wipe out humanity "equal but equally wrong"). If so, then she really might be the evil version of Queen Lurline (Wizard of Oz) rather than the Wicked Witch of the West/East.

edited 26th Mar '16 7:50:12 PM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
BlackSunNocturne Since: Aug, 2013
#30848: Mar 26th 2016 at 7:54:56 PM

Is Monty's color naming rule apply to team names as well? I think I remember something about, "Reminds you of a color." in there.

RNJR obviously pronounced as Ranger. Rangers usually protects the forests. Forests are green, and sometimes will go red/orange in the autumn, then white in winter. And of course, trees are brown. Also the multitude of tiny plant lives like flowers and fungi.

I think that should counts, but is it really?

Here's the official rules, as written by Monty himself.

Also: Ranger is a color. It's a specific shade of green, normally used by the U.S Army Rangers

DarthSion Statement: All meatbags must die from Slokovia Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Statement: All meatbags must die
#30849: Mar 26th 2016 at 9:56:21 PM

The most Cinder and Adam will probably get is a moment where they realize how far they've fallen... Only to be killed 30 seconds later

Cut off one head 2 more shall take it's place! Hail Hydra
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#30850: Mar 26th 2016 at 11:55:12 PM

"Ozpin's sitting on an Awful Truth also suggest that Salem is trying absolve responsibility of her own crimes by blaming Ozpin for absolutely everything."

I dont know, it seen Salem dosent give a tham about it, she consider humanity a good oponent and even said he was right by standing united as one, but them she blame him for being ruthless,manipulative and a liar so this is the key:what Ozpin did and what is that lie? after all he is pretty harsh on himself and aparenly for a good damn reason.

with the rest....well Roman is dead and at best he was a mook scared of things to come, Neo seen to follow Roman, Emerald was pretty much bully into follow her and it dosent seen Mercury cared to much what is happeing, Adam since to walk a middle road between a freedom fighter go wrong and just a plain dick(and aparenly his behivor point out the latter, a shame)

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

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