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Stage7-4 Since: Nov, 2014
#81501: Jan 10th 2025 at 11:38:52 AM

My take on "Ambrosius needs blueprints" was that if you don't give the guy direction then he's going to wing it and you'll get what you asked for but not necessarily what you intended. He warned as much when they summoned him, and given his confusion on how to handle their Penny order there was some winging it involved.

Granted that's a logical explanation I came up with, too bad the story didn't. Guess they had their eyes focused on making Penny human so they could fulfill a Pinocchio motif while super duper no-take-backsies killing her for a second scoop of shock value. Thanks I hate it.

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#81502: Jan 10th 2025 at 11:41:41 AM

I question it too - but taking advantage of a loophole in magical contracts is a cliche I can get behind. Disney's Aladdin has a similar thing where Genie obviously can pull Aladdin out of the cave, but Aladdin tricked him into doing it voluntarily despite supposed genie law.

Gaogaigar54 Since: Jan, 2020
#81503: Jan 11th 2025 at 2:29:25 AM

There is a lot of revisionist history surrounding the first three volumes. Back in the day during the time between V2 and V3, more people thought V1 and 2 were crap than didn't and there was no shortage of internet critics shitting on them. Just that today everyone pretends that they liked the first two volumes for the sake of bashing the current ones. It's funny how so many people went from calling Monty a hack to calling him a great guy who's vision was ruined by the rest of CRWBY. Which frankly using his name as a bludgeon against CRWBY in that way, proves how little they care about about the "legacy" they claim to champion.

Anyway one of the biggest problems with RWBY discourse is, that just because something isn't very good doesn't mean everyone who has mean things to say about it, knows what they are talking about and for the most part RWBY is in a position were it mainly attracts people who don't know what they are talking about. And since RWBY aint great and has a good chunk of people who subsequently don't like it, they will take anything negative said about it at face value and treat it as an indisputable fact.

The end result is legitimate critique of the many things RWBY actually gets wrong are buried, because discourse is dominated by bad faith takes or just plain bad takes being wholly accepted as fact.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#81504: Jan 11th 2025 at 4:45:07 AM

Gao is very much tellling the true, I remenber way back them I was very upset with ending of V2 because I feel it destroy the hability of the grimm to be threating at all(something I still mantain). youtube critic like fatman falling shit monty for stuff like the train fight(including using part of behind the scenes to see monty really make the whole because he wanted boss fights). Monty just really become sacrosant after his death even when he would probably be the first to tell you that he didnt write for shit.

the whole "V1-3 are good, all are shit" dosent hold up

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
ssjSega Since: Sep, 2017
#81505: Jan 11th 2025 at 1:00:47 PM

Okay, bringing this up again. There's this edit on the YMMV page that comes off as "weasel words", as the expression goes here:


  • A large chunk of former and current viewers maintain that the quality of the show went only downhill after the first three volumes, citing dissatisfaction with the changes of tone and setting after Beacon was destroyed, less colorful and imaginative new characters and weapons, less fast-paced and dance-like battle animations lacking the original shorts' and volumes' distinct style, unsatisfying answers to long-standing mysteries such as Remnant's and Ozpin's pasts, the main characters' individual quirks either becoming more subdued or discarded, and attempts to further tackle serious drama, politics and morality issues on the show being seen as shallow or even self-contradictory.

Beforehand, it said "the general consensus", which very much isn't true since the series' audience is divided in regard to pre/post-Beacon volumes rather than having an overall consensus one way or the other. This was covered already in Broken Base for the YMMV page.

Like I said above, feels like trying to sneak in a blanket statement about everything post-V3.

I recommend erasing the entry and keeping Seasonal Rot to the individual volumes that garnered a colder reception compared to the rest.

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#81506: Jan 11th 2025 at 1:11:50 PM

The problem I found with RWBY's YMMV especially back in Volume 2 is that there are too many chefs cooking and dictating what everyone else thinks. Trope Overdose was a thing with tropers who made mythical connections with certain characters that likely were nev3r addressed or even announced - it filled the page with clutter like how Mulan's tale implied how Ren would meet a grisly fate.

I don't think there is an objective consensus on what a fanbase feels except for what Rooster Tooth themselves has observed through feedback.

I could make up an entry that most fans enjoyed Ironwood's Start of Darkness and I don't think anyone could truly disprove that (even though several would argue that its contentious). You have to pick your battles over entries that "feel" facetious and ones tha5 might just be worded strongly, or else we're just rattling sabers on a page that explicitly asks for debatable interpretations.

Edited by FOFD on Jan 12th 2025 at 8:19:45 AM

RandomFanOfStuff Still trying to fix the Wi-Fi from somewhere I probably shouldn't be rn Since: Nov, 2017
Still trying to fix the Wi-Fi
#81507: Jan 11th 2025 at 1:13:20 PM

I find myself frequently torn between the effort of rewording entries to fix objective errors VS just deleting them, partly because I don't trust that they won't be back up soon after along with a post about how RWBY fans silence all criticism :/.

Edited by RandomFanOfStuff on Jan 11th 2025 at 9:38:08 AM

Welp, add that to the list of Terrible Ideas That I Knew Were Terrible Ideas But Did Anyway...
Stage7-4 Since: Nov, 2014
#81508: Jan 11th 2025 at 6:25:43 PM

I think there's a difference between "things set up in the early volumes didn't pay off in later ones" vs "the early volumes are just better." Because volume 1 and 2 are visually amateur (outside of fights), dialogue was clunky, the main 4 girls barely got focus, Jaune got too much focus, the plot took 3 volumes to find itself, new characters dropped in without warning all the time, and the exposition was in long boring lectures. So I think anybody who sincerely thinks they're better overall is delusional.

What I can understand is getting frustrated that later volumes never deliver on the hype the early ones set up. I can also understand people that miss the superhero school setting if you're into that. And I can understand people that feel the fight choreography took a nosedive after Monty died because I agree (it got better later though).

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#81509: Jan 12th 2025 at 12:57:20 AM

On the YMMV entry I'd support cutting for being inaccurate. It makes it out that the majority of fans think it went downhill over 3 which is blatantly wrong.

On the Amby and his rules conversation I think a big problem is a lot of people think that the rules the relic spirits operate under are the limits of their power rather than just a set of rules the gods set on what can be asked of them, and behaviour that embodies the spirit of the gift is meant to be rewarded. Jinn has all knowledge available but has a limit of questions she will answer, but will allow uses of her relic thay indulge in a person's desire for knowledge. If she were a literal genie then she could have said "well by summoning me Hazel had a question answered, so that counts as question 3."

With Amby his request for creation require blueprints and details because those are the rules he plays by. He doesn't need the blueprints to make a functioning version of something, but his job is to encourage creativity. If you say "yo make me a floating island, I don't care about the details" how exactly is your creativity being fostered? But if you have to provide details on your request it's encouraging people to engage in their creative thinking. He's not there to replace creativity, he's there to provide the materials and labour. Team RWBY using his rules to get a free creation out of him was a creative solution, which the relic is meant to encourage. Amby had to work out a solution on how to fulfill the request without destroying Penny but he didn't have to restrict himself with his normal rules to do it.

As to people asking how Cinder got him to make some fire, she can literally make the stuff to show him an example of it.

GhidorahUltima Machine Gun Massacre from Californ-i-aaaay! Since: Apr, 2023 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Machine Gun Massacre
#81510: Jan 15th 2025 at 1:03:54 PM

Dear Brothers does RWBY's YMMV page attract haters who see it as an excuse to complain about shows they don't like. I don't know how much cleanup we still have to do for it.

Deleted that entry, and did my best to do some cleanup. Just the entire rest of the page to go...


  • Base-Breaking Character:
    • General James Ironwood became this after Volume 7, as fans were divided on the intentions of his character arc and the execution of his downfall that makes up the crux of Volume 8. Ironwood in fact became so controversial over the course of Volumes 7 and 8 that he spawned multiple different fracture points on arguments about him:
      • The intention as stated by the writers was for Ironwood to gradually deteriorate into madness and make him a Fallen Hero, leading into his actions in Volume 8 becoming as villainous if not worse than Salem in the name of protecting Atlas. What that resulted in was an arc that divided fans who either agreed with the intended mission statement and examined Ironwood's past actions as setting up this arc Explanation, while others found themselves sympathetic to Ironwood and understood his rationale for many of the choices he made throughout the series and also disagreed that those actions were setting up Ironwood as an outright villain. Explanation.
      • The decision by Ruby's group to lie to Ironwood about Salem's origins and immortality was also seen as a major point in the argument about whether or not Ironwood was trustworthy enough to tell or if his paranoia made him too dangerous at first, especially after Volume 6 took the point of view that Ozpin was in the wrong for keeping the secret to himself.
      • While all this made for a controversial character in Volume 7, the debate truly took off in Volume 8 due to Ironwood's more villainous actions being presented up-front such as his murder of Councilman Sleet in the first episode and willingness to work with Watts to counter Penny, to say nothing of his choice to drop a bomb on Mantle. Fans were split between this being a logical progression for Ironwood's character and his flaws driving him past the brink, or him being made to take the Idiot Ball to sabotage his plans and make him egregiously wrong to justify Team RWBY's choices in Volume 7. Several meta-additions to Ironwood's character or commentary on him by the show-runners, particularly the reveal of Ironwood's Semblance, Mettle, also muddied the waters as Mettle became a vaugely-defined Fan-Disliked Explanation that was seen as a narrative band-aid that could be used to justify Ironwood's more out of character decisions as him being under the effect of his Semblance. A line in the Volume 7 commentary that Ironwood was "losing his humanity" over the scene where he sacrificed an arm to defeat Watts was also controversial due to being seen as ableist and making fun of Ironwood's disabilities or framing his decision to sacrifice his arm as contributing to his downfall.

This section needs significant cleanup. Ironwood does not need three bullet points all to himself, and the entry does not need to list every single possible talking point about Ironwood in explicit detail. A summary of the fanbase's position on him is enough. Not to mention the parts praising his writing are just a couple sentences while the parts calling him a Designated Villain are most of the section. Not to mention that some of this stuff seems like it's only here because it's about Ironwood. The accusations of ableism probably don't belong under Base-Breaking Character, nor do the complaints about Mettle, which are already under Fan-Disliked Explanation.

Edited by GhidorahUltima on Jan 15th 2025 at 3:31:04 AM

Tiiiick tock... goes the clock... and all the years....
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#81511: Jan 18th 2025 at 7:37:21 PM

[up] Ironwood had a consensus-agreed entry at one point. Did that Wall of Text unilaterally replace that entry? If so, I'd revert back to the original consensus entry, and then double-check if people want to keep the original or update it.


Yeah my point. Jaune should be dead, without it from that fall.

My headcanon is that Pyrrha inadvertantly made it harder for Jaune to unlock his Semblance when she saved him from falling.

As my headcanon goes, Jaune would not have died on impact with the ground. His Aura and Semblance would have unlocked on impact to immediately save him through amplifying his own Aura and self-healing.

His Aura and Semblance did exactly that when Cardin struck him during the Jaundice storyline, and it took near-death for his Semblance to consciously unlock in V5.

The creators' original concept of Pyrrha was that she's too helpful. Her character flaw is that she wants to help too much and doesn't always realise that, sometimes, people can only grow if they're exposed to the problem rather than protected from it.

So, in keeping with that idea, Pyrrha saving Jaune from falling that day accidentally made it harder for him to unlock his Semblance by protecting him from a near-death experience.

She did it again when she revealed her Semblance by intervening in Jaune's battle with the Ursa. If that Ursa had struck Jaune instead of the shield, his Semblance might have activated again, the way it had just before when Cardin struck him.

That's just how I see it, anyway.

And why was she given a human body anyway ?

Short answer, she wasn't. It functioned like a human body, but wasn't made the same way.

Everything Ambrosius does has to be able to be conceptualised or described. Penny's robotic body reveals to us that her new body is made entirely out of Aura, so my theory is that there were "unspoken" templates being used here.

The first is Ozma. Ozma exists in the living world as a soul without a body. So, the idea of Penny existing as a soul without a body isn't new. Ozma is the existing template for that concept.

Now, the God of Light's solution to having a soul without a body was to stuff Ozma's soul into the body of an existing man, forcing two souls to share one body. However, the consequence of that solution is the possibility of Death of Personality, and Ambrosius can't destroy, so he cannot use the God of Light's solution.

The God of Darkness had a different solution (he brought Ozma back in his original body), but the God of Light had serious objections to that, which we don't fully understand, but which the Blacksmith has strongly indicated is rooted in the Brothers having a very flawed understanding of the concept of universal balance. Either way, Ambrosius is a creation of the God of Light, not the God of Darkness, and we don't have a clue how the God of Darkness recreated Ozma's original body anyway.

The second template that exists in the world is that Soul creates Aura, which creates Semblance. The show and World of Remnant episodes literally tell us that Aura is the manifestation of the Soul and Semblance is the "physical" manifestation of Aura.

So, Penny's soul creates Aura and that Aura manifests a physical form. In a way, it could almost be said that Penny's Semblance isn't her swords, it's both her body and her swords together. It's just that her Semblance is permanently switched on, like Qrow's, with parts that can be consciously activated and deactivated (the swords for Penny, and Qrow manipulating misfortune on the battlefield or stopping the bomb from falling).

Now, I don't typically think of Penny's physical body as being an actual Semblance (her swords definitely, but I go back and forth on her physical body and don't think it actually matters whether it is or is not). It's more important that the Soul-Aura-Semblance relationship is an existing concept that Penny's Soul-Aura-Body can fit into, given that her body is made entirely of Aura.

In short, because Soul -> Aura -> Semblance, Penny's soul -> Penny's Aura body -> Penny's physical body (which we know is still made out of Aura, even though it functions like a biological body).

Penny's storyline has been following mirror beats with Oscar and Ozma, especially in Volumes 7-8. One of those overlapping beats is how to handle the existence of a soul without a body. What happened to Penny has potential implications for Ozpin and Oscar. It shows us that the God of Light didn't have to bring Ozma back the way he did. He could have found other options, but he didn't. The Brothers and Ambrosius do not have the same mentality, and Ambrosius had restrictions that the Brothers do not. Yet it's Ambrosius who found the better solution, the solution that doesn't damage, change or even destroy the life of another to enact.

My take on "Ambrosius needs blueprints" was that if you don't give the guy direction then he's going to wing it and you'll get what you asked for but not necessarily what you intended.

I saw it the same way. The reason Ozpin suggested blueprints specifically is to help nail down the wording of the request to minimise Ambrosius' "creative interpretation" of any requests he receives. So, the rule is that Ambrosius needs to be instructed on what to create, actual blueprints are just one specific example of how to instruct him in a very controlled manner.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Jan 18th 2025 at 3:52:31 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#81512: Jan 18th 2025 at 10:21:43 PM

[up]Regarding Ambrosius and schemantics let's look at the transcript.

Yang: Let's try the quick version. Can you make a bunch of doorways in Atlas that open at a single spot in Vacuo?

Ambrosius: Sure! I'll just need coordinates and specs for each door, an explanation for bending space and time to account for the much greater traffic on one side and the single point of exit on the other.

Weiss: Okay, that's about what we expected. So, we need to funnel everybody through a central location first.

Ambrosius: You're going to have to tell me more about this central location. For starters, uh, where is it?

Yang: Here. A place like these Vaults. Wherever they are, they're not part of Remnant. Only accessible if you know the right way in. Seems like a safe enough place for thousands of refugees.'''

Ambrosius: You kids are either smart or much more foolish than you realize. (sighs) I'm going to need a reference?

So it's not just Ozpin giving suggestions, Amby does require some quite specific details. Perhaps not to the point of requiring detailed blueprints for every request but we can see he needs coordinates and specifications for each door, and an explanation of what to put between the doors, making clear he can't just make a door connecting two different points. When they give him the example of the kind of space the vault is he understands the general idea but still asks for a design reference.

So my take and what the dialogue supports is that you need to meet some standard of detail before Amby will get to work, although Amby will ask you the relevant questions to meet that standard.

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#81513: Jan 19th 2025 at 10:47:21 PM

Nice to see ya back Wyld.

Bow to the Prototype
GhidorahUltima Machine Gun Massacre from Californ-i-aaaay! Since: Apr, 2023 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Machine Gun Massacre
#81514: Jan 21st 2025 at 4:40:08 PM

Ironwood's entry was reverted.

Tiiiick tock... goes the clock... and all the years....
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#81515: Jan 21st 2025 at 7:27:19 PM

In which direction? Back to the trimmed version people agreed on, or back to the Wall of Text version?

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
gjjones Musician/Composer from South Wales, New York Since: Jul, 2016
Musician/Composer
#81516: Jan 21st 2025 at 7:35:39 PM

[up] The trimmed version.

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#81517: Jan 23rd 2025 at 11:39:44 AM

Question about Aura and Semblances like Qrow's.

Once you learn how to manifest Aura, am I given to assume that you can't voluntarily turn it off? Because a friend of mine just asked if Qrow can willingly shut his aura down to disable his Semblance, but I'm fairly sure that's not how it works.

Edited by GNinja on Jan 23rd 2025 at 7:40:17 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#81518: Jan 23rd 2025 at 12:35:34 PM

I got that impression, yeah. But even if you theoretically could, Qrow is specifically an agent with a dangerous job who might find himself ambushed. Leaving his Aura turned off sounds like a terrible idea when his bad luck can be ameliorated just by moving around.

Just to start with, I feel like if you could turn off your Aura, then when you turned it back on it would start at zero and have to regenerate. Which would be a terrible idea in any combat situation.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#81519: Jan 23rd 2025 at 12:45:11 PM

Pyrrha did question why Jaune didn't activate his Aura.

And yeah, turning off his Aura would be life-threatening in his line of work.

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#81520: Jan 23rd 2025 at 4:13:09 PM

Word of God answered this, if you have a passive semblance it can’t be shut off even if your aura is down.

RandomFanOfStuff Still trying to fix the Wi-Fi from somewhere I probably shouldn't be rn Since: Nov, 2017
Still trying to fix the Wi-Fi
#81521: Jan 23rd 2025 at 4:34:11 PM

Suppose one way to think about it is it might take so little aura to use that as soon as you have any it activates, whether you choose to use your aura or not.

Edited by RandomFanOfStuff on Jan 23rd 2025 at 12:34:45 PM

Welp, add that to the list of Terrible Ideas That I Knew Were Terrible Ideas But Did Anyway...
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#81522: Jan 25th 2025 at 10:31:44 AM

Been continuing my RWBY rewatch with a friend.

Now I'm wondering how Jaune's aura amp would impact certain semblances.

Like, if he used it on, say, Tock, do you think it would it make her indestructible aura last longer than 60 seconds, or would it apply the 60 second buff to people around her too?

Kaze ni Nare!
CryoJNik He who holds fandoms in contempt from At the edge of tomorrow Since: Nov, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding
He who holds fandoms in contempt
#81523: Jan 25th 2025 at 11:06:43 PM

I believe it just amplifies the initial Semblance's effects. So if it couldn't originally affect others then boosting it wouldn't change that. Only real way to know for certain is to have him boost someone other than Ren. Which probably won't happen since Amp is incredibly overpowered.

If you can't handle being outed by a signature, that's on you.
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#81524: Jan 26th 2025 at 5:26:28 AM

Was anybody else underwhelmed by the design of Atlas when it first appeared?

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#81525: Jan 26th 2025 at 6:55:27 AM

[up][up]I would assume it works like metamagic in D&D: It's altering and maximizing certain variables, but it can't flat-out add new ones. So for Tock, it would probably double her duration, but likely wouldn't increase the area of effect, because her Semblance doesn't really have an area of effect.

The biggest limit to Aura Amp is probably that Jaune has to remain close by. So he'd be basically useless with Ruby and Yang, probably pretty useful with Blake, and could boost Weiss to god-tier.

[up] In what way? I definitely liked the reveal that it was a flying city.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.

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