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unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#78201: Mar 26th 2023 at 6:34:45 AM

"Salem hadn't arrived when Ironwood decided to pull out and leave the poor people of mantle to burn; it was the definition of "it's personally convenient too me so I'm going to assume it's just"."

Salem was already arraving, that was the panic point, hell it didnt take that much for her to come anyway.

And ruby plans were amity(you know, james plan just this time will work because....dunno), move people in the city, then whitley come with the ships, it wasnt until Oscar come around Ozpin they actually make a proper plan and look how the hell that turn out.

(and hell they manage to beat watts in volume 7 thanks to the convient cameras willow have in the house that the show didnt arse to foreshow).

Like I wont said james didnt make mistake but damn the volume too some shortcuts in order to the get into that point.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#78202: Mar 26th 2023 at 7:11:16 AM

Anyway, back to Volume 9, how long ago did Alyx go through the Ever After? During Jaune's flashback he was already the grown man when he met her, so when did she get out and publish the book? Alyx might still be around, what if we're not done were her once they're out the Ever After? Total crack theory here but what if she's the Summer maiden?

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
Edward45 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#78203: Mar 26th 2023 at 7:48:29 AM

A little late to the discussion of pairings. Captain Capsase, the problem with Rose Garden is called OZPIN.

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#78204: Mar 26th 2023 at 10:15:53 AM

@Agent

I think this just displays that Ever After time works differently then Remnant time. Alyx's story being a classic fairy tale implies it's atleast a century or 2 old, when Jaune does not seem to be.

This does add credence to the idea that a long time will have passed for Remnant when the heroes return.

Bow to the Prototype
LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#78205: Mar 26th 2023 at 11:11:44 AM

No.....it was seeing the chess piece that set him off. Salem hadn't actually shown up yet. Cinder was already in Atlas so Ironwood's reaction was incredibly foolish and illogical. There was PLENTY of time to get civilians and complete the evacuation.

The claim that he made the only right decision is false and basically done by macho types who can't accept that no the people claiming they're making the "hard decisions" are just cruel and stupid imbeciles.

Whitley's plan was more fleshed out AND would have evacuated the civilians James was leaving to burn.

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#78206: Mar 26th 2023 at 11:17:03 AM

In Remnant's history books they're going to have to write that an entire nation was destroyed over a chess piece.

Ironwood's problem was a mixture of pride and fear. He's terrified of Salem but he's too proud to admit it, and when he saw the chess piece he panicked and his knee jerk reaction was to fly Atlas away, but after the initial panic passed he kept on following that plan because he was too proud to admit that the plan was only a panic reaction and kept insisting it was "hard but logical" move because he couldn't handle admitting he was scared, why do you think he snapped at Oscar after he suggested he was afraid in the vault? Ironwood wanted to help people but his own pride got in the way.

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
Cross (Don’t ask)
#78207: Mar 26th 2023 at 11:45:15 AM

Gonna stand where I was when the volume ended point out not of really knew how much time they had before Salem arrived. Arguably Ironwood would have been in the best position to assess that based on how the sensors were laid out and when they went down.

Psyga315 Since: Jan, 2001
#78208: Mar 26th 2023 at 11:47:57 AM

In Remnant's history books they're going to have to write that an entire nation was destroyed over a chess piece.
Implying there'll be a Remnant left to make history books.

Or that the people making he books will even know about the chess piece to begin with.

harostar Since: Feb, 2010
#78209: Mar 26th 2023 at 11:54:31 AM

Hey let's talk more about the current volume!! And not recycle the same argument for another year! just bugs me

Anyway, I definitely feel like we're getting a ton of misdirection via people assuming things. The fairytale was SUPPOSEDLY written by Alyx, based on a sanitized version of what Jaune was trying to make sure happened. Neither the Cat nor Jaune give solid answers re what happened to the siblings, and likely didn't actually see what happened.

There's also the Cat doing a lot of assuming that things work differently for Remnant folks. And of course the Blacksmith, who Ruby hasn't mentioned to anyone.

TwinBird Dunkies addict from Eastern Mass Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Dunkies addict
#78210: Mar 26th 2023 at 3:05:33 PM

Anyway, thought I should say that the American Spanish subtitles say "mentormenta" (closer to "ponderstorm" than "punderstorm") and "Lewis"; I assume they're not just off the cuff, so presumably those are right. (Also, can we please get some English subtitles already? I don't speak a word of Spanish, and my ears are going. Although I'm still pretty sure Penny said "team" when the subtitles said "teen" back in early V7.)

Also should point out, as Jinxy might say, that, er, some folks (...dunno why I'm being so cagey at this point - I doubt there's anyone familiar with the series who hasn't caught on as of 31 hours, let alone a week or year), with the telepathy bit at the end, pretty much just not-talked their way into being girlfriends.

Edited by TwinBird on Mar 26th 2023 at 6:15:38 AM

My posts make considerably more sense read in the voice of John Ratzenberger.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#78211: Mar 26th 2023 at 4:18:53 PM

" There was PLENTY of time to get civilians and complete the evacuation."

There was? I mean he got the chess piece, hitting the enemy was already inside(one of those weird ass shortcut the whole arc did) and then his amity plan crash afer knowing that it was a distraction and Salem is there but that she cant be killed(a information withhold by both ozpin and RWBY) that is after withholding a grimm invasion and sabotage, ace ops and RWBY fight and didnt take that much for Salem to arrived so saying there is plenty of time(evacuatiion arent exactly easy).

"Ironwood's problem was a mixture of pride and fear."

James problem is that he lost hope and refuse to admit he did. Once he saw Salem was unkillable and she got the cards on her he just wanted to run away, just like raven and just like Lioheart(who funny thing, is the only who actuall is aware on that).

And I said this because ruby is right now very dangerousy in the same road "Of course we can do this, we are heroes!" to "Sure this is bad but this plan will work out!" to "But who it can be....it just to much" to "Maybe I can.....I mean....we can.....run away". Harostar is very right that dying isnt the risk here, at least to Ruby the danger is she becoming a shell of herself just like many other before.

Now I have a question....what if Lewis is another ozpin reincarnation? I cant see im the only one who see another ozma-salem parallels here.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#78212: Mar 26th 2023 at 4:34:24 PM

It was noted that Oscar was fairly young for a Ozpin reincarnation and Lewis looks around the same age.

TwinBird Dunkies addict from Eastern Mass Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Dunkies addict
#78213: Mar 26th 2023 at 4:39:06 PM

When you've had a few hundred reincarnations, you can have quite a few that are unusual in the same way.

My posts make considerably more sense read in the voice of John Ratzenberger.
harostar Since: Feb, 2010
#78214: Mar 26th 2023 at 5:28:26 PM

Lewis really is a huge mystery right now, isn't he? Completely written out of the story people know, not mentioned by anyone before Jaune because they didn't know to ask about if Alyx was the only one.

The Unreliable Narrator is so strong, it feels like none of the versions we've been presented with so far are the truth. Just pieces of it, filtered through the biased views of people that witnessed SOME but not ALL of it.

Though Oz and Oscar briefly discuss the story, I'm not sure whether I think Oz had anything to do with this particular tale. Many of the stories do relate to Ozpin and/or Salem, but I have to wonder whether this will be a major exception? That Ever After is something outside of Oz and Salem's knowledge, that basically they know as much as anyone that has heard the story and maybe suspect there's a bigger truth to it. But neither of them were involved, and therefore it becomes one tale where neither of them is a secret expert.

Instead, we get the author that wrote a very altered/sanitized version of events, and Jaune that witnessed part of it but has been consumed with trauma and grief and despair for so long that his judgments cannot be 100% trusted.

TwinBird Dunkies addict from Eastern Mass Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Dunkies addict
#78215: Mar 26th 2023 at 5:38:56 PM

Genuinely, though, as someone who upon watching "Burning the Candle" said "yuri sense, tingling" (between V4 and V5 not having the faintest idea what I'd stumbled into) I still wonder what the hell we're going to do to link this back into the main main plot. I really worry it's just going to be a bonkers digression, after which Jaune will be more tired and Yang and Blake will be lovers.

My posts make considerably more sense read in the voice of John Ratzenberger.
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#78216: Mar 26th 2023 at 6:08:15 PM

You know, now I'm wondering. Do you think they might bring back the Ponderstorm and use it for the final confrontation with Neo? Since it might allow Neo to manifest all of her feelings in a way Ruby and the others can understand.

Kaze ni Nare!
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#78217: Mar 26th 2023 at 6:48:36 PM

@Unknown

From what the show portrays, there was indeed plenty of time to get people evacuated. They actually had more time then James believed, sense he didn't know about the Grimm pool.

Bow to the Prototype
harostar Since: Feb, 2010
#78218: Mar 26th 2023 at 7:09:07 PM

[up][up]Oh wow, that's actually a really great/creative idea.

I saw elsewhere someone discussing how basically, Ever After is tailor-made for forcing them to deal with all the things they've been avoiding. Every time before, it was "No time, gotta save the world" and pushing everything down for a later that never came.

And now.....now they are trapped in a world that centers on Emotion. That rains when you're sad, that has prices paid in metaphorical things, that has fruit that alter the flow of time, weather patterns that force you to confront the things you aren't saying/dealing with, and the whole concept of Purpose and death/rebirth tied into "Who/What are you?"

Now, they have been dropped into a place where it is impossible to not deal with all those things. Where they have no choice but to start facing painful truths, and saying the things they've been holding in, and examining themselves, and figuring out who they truly are and what they want.

They have no choice but to grow as characters, if they want to get home.

Basically, when they return to their world and begin the next stage of things, they are returning as changed people. Hopefully, with new knowledge/understanding that will assist them going forward, as they start realizing the central argument of the entire series:

Strength (military/martial) cannot defeat Salem.

Losing Atlas is ultimately about yanking the rug out from under them, taking away that deceptive comfort of "hey we can use our robot army to fight" when that was never going to be the solution.

This is their lowest point (so far!) that will force them to learn something new and important, that they can bring back. Since Ever After is essentially giving them something they will need re: defeating Salem. She can't be fought, or destroyed. Stopping her is going to require understanding her, and likely figuring out the actual requirements for her curse. Like the beings of Ever After, Salem is someone that cannot die but has been worn down and lost her purpose. She's broken and empty, as much as Ozpin has become, and that idea of something needing repair/rebirth I think will be important.

Edited by harostar on Mar 26th 2023 at 10:14:37 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#78219: Mar 26th 2023 at 7:27:49 PM

Like what we know aboyt Alyxs:

-in general the stories said she was mischievious but it differ in how much, the story paint her as someone rude, but Jaune said it was in fact worst and quite malevolent, it seen she tricked the cat but Jaune said the cat is evil.

So it seen she ranges from anti hero to direct villian protagonist.

twinbird: mentormenta is....weird since in spanish we dont have a word for pun except juego de palabras(play on words or wordplay) so I guess is the closest thing.

But ether ozpin was lewis or he knew alyxs since I feel he put the story there for a reason.

"there was indeed plenty of time to get people evacuated. They actually had more time then James believed, sense he didn't know about the Grimm pool."

I dont think so? the show is vague, they fight grimm they manage to stop, then it reveal Salem is already head there and when salem come it change the game since it controls the grimm making moving ships more dificult. that is why the portal idea is a sort of eureka(and why hilariously from a narrative standpoint it was bound to fail).

[up]Grow or change? I what I mena....did she grow in ever after because it look she become worst, the ever after make you diferent but I wonder if that mean "better"

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#78220: Mar 26th 2023 at 7:46:19 PM

I do enjoy the theory I've seen floating around that Lewis will turn out to be the one who actually escaped and he wrote the original fairy tale, because Lewis Carol is the one who wrote Alice in Wonderland.

Whether Alyx had a change of heart and sacrificed herself or Lewis is actually evil remains to be seen.

Edited by GNinja on Mar 26th 2023 at 2:47:41 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#78221: Mar 26th 2023 at 7:49:03 PM

Is probably the whole lewis/Alyxs have the jey to ruby to figure out the key to defeat Salem and avoid becoming a heartless(yeah I know the term means but is a figure of speech).

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
harostar Since: Feb, 2010
#78223: Mar 26th 2023 at 8:09:42 PM

Grow and change, as in Character Development.

As in Ruby has to deal with her problems. This is a world tailored to forcing people to deal with their problems, that externalizes them.

The conflict this volume isn't REALLY getting home, it's Ruby facing all her inner conflicts and dealing with them.

Ergo, the journey requires that she grow as a person before they get to Vacuo.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#78224: Mar 26th 2023 at 8:18:02 PM

[up]Thing is Alyxs story show that while she wasnt the same, she didnt exactly grow(until a twist said otherwise). So you can become....worst from the experience.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Watashiwa Since: Dec, 2009
#78225: Mar 26th 2023 at 8:49:50 PM

Did the Jabberwalker exist when Alyx went through the Ever After? Cuz if her brother went back and she changed...


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