I was being a bit tongue and cheek with the reference, but the entire premise of the SCP format is thinking up creative ways to put something in a box, so a huge amount of thought is put into how to trap the seemingly untrappable. Pretty much anything that's considered "hard to contain" has various forms of Contractual Immmunity to being put in a box, or can by their very nature only be put in a box temporarily, for example because they jump person to person upon death of their host to a totally random schmuck. (Almost) anything else can be brute forced, and often dealt with relatively easily if you're clever enough.
Edited by CaptainCapsase on May 24th 2022 at 12:30:04 PM
Except a whole bunch of entries also emphasize that it's not actually possible to truly keep some things in a box.
Especially when the thing is a powerful immortal being.
It's just not a good reference for the point you're trying to make.
Edited by M84 on May 25th 2022 at 12:34:12 AM
Disgusted, but not surprisedAll of which have the afforementioned contractual immunities I mentioned. The distinction between well written entires and poorly written ones tends to be whether the gimmicks come across as something that exists because otherwise it'd be a Safe class, or feels natural and logical in the context of the entry. "Just" being unkillable and having superpowers isn't nearly enough. But yeah, fair enough, not a great reference for those not particularlty into the meta-narrative of how SCPF articles are written.
Edited by CaptainCapsase on May 24th 2022 at 12:42:10 PM
I mean the chief example of the unkillable SCP literally keeps breaking out of their containment. It’s whole point is they can’t keep it contained and it keeps killing people. Likewise with Salem we don’t know her full capabilities, but we do see her turn into mist and move in that form. With her magic, Grimm powers and untold eons to refine both she has a advantage over everyone else on the planet.
"The issue I see is less with Cinder posing at threat to her, and more with Cinder having the potential to catastrophically damage "the plan" with her antics, putting her back to square one where all the relics are in Oz's hands. As far as whether Cinder buys into Salem's lie, my suspicion is that she doesn't actually care whether its true or not, for Cinder, Salem is just a stepping stone to her own personal power, the only thing learning the truth would change is the timetable for her sudden yet inevitable betrayal."
If the end of Volume 8 is any indication, letting Cinder do her antics is helping the plan
"Also considering the fact RWBY has done the fake out death with Cinder and Neo, and brought Penny back. At this point unless we see the body or the creators words, then it becomes a loose end."
But like we see the Body for Penny, she died, she was just rezzed. That the show has done death fake outs means one can speculate about a death fake out, it does not mean that its a loose end because you can maybe possibly theorize he lived.
Edited by Snoketrope on May 26th 2022 at 12:26:07 PM
Bow to the Prototype
We were theorizing, until we got Word of God that he died. Like I could theorize that Raven could have saved him last minute, but then we got Word of God. When I'm talking about loose ends, I'm talking about loose ends relating to the character and other characters. Ironwood and Ozpin and Qrow; there was hope that we'd get a fight between Ironwood and Qrow since volume 7, but there was nothing, we got no closure between the Ironwood and Qrow and Ozpin.
Edited by rinrinboss on May 25th 2022 at 1:48:56 AM
Okay, not seeing how Qrow fighting Ironwood was ever set up in what you guys are talking about.
And for that matter, even before the Word of God statement regarding Ironwood's fate, I'm not seeing why or how anyone would expect him to be alive after Atlas crashes into Mantle with him in the Vault room.
Considering that Cinder used the staff to create fire to kill Watts, thereby causing the Vault doors to close, he couldn't have done that even if he thought of it.
And I really don't understand why you'd expect Raven to save him. The two have never interacted nor has there been any allusion to them interacting in the past, and even if they did, I doubt Raven would care enough about Ironwood to have a connection with him on standby for teleportation purposes.
Occam's Razor is in hard effect here. It's simpler to say that he died when Team ZEON RWBY colony dropped his ass.
Edited by Psyga315 on May 25th 2022 at 6:33:23 AM
@Shaokan: 682 has a ridiculous Adaptive Ability that means anything that keeps it down will inevitably fail; that's its "gimmick" that stops the Foundation from keeping it contained.
Volume 9 probably is going to be this fall right?
Winter seems more likely.
I'm of the mindset that Ozpin attempted containing Salem a few times over the many millennia of their war and all of them failed.
Really, containing Salem isn't an option when she's crafty and patient enough to think her way out of whatever prison you try to put her in.
In the end, it just takes the right opportunity and time, and because of her immortality, time is ALWAYS on Salem's side.
Especially since Ozpin's incarnations are all mortal. So even if he did find a way that had some success, it probably needed his constant supervision. So the moment his current self croaked for whatever reason — old age, sickness, choking on a chicken wing he ate too quickly — and he was stuck in between bodies, she'd break out.
And there's no guarantee that sealing Salem does anything about the overall Grimm problem.
Edited by M84 on May 26th 2022 at 7:25:40 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised
Something something 36 Salem on Mars.
Some more characters shown that will appear in RWBY IQ:
https://twitter.com/oecuf0/status/1529861685959397379?s=21&t=Qa_-y9Ig-CA6n5k4Y-oGbg
Edited by SilentLyfe on May 26th 2022 at 12:05:51 PM
She might not care right now, but that's because she doesn't know the truth. Salem's true goal is incompatible with what Cinder wants. Cinder wants to be the top dog. That requires a world to exist for her to be able to achieve that. If Salem gets her way, Cinder — like everyone else — ceases to exist.
And while we all assume that Cinder will betray Salem eventually, Salem's immortality stands in the way of Cinder's ability to become the true top dog.
That's not quite true. Jinn said that Ozma learned over time how to live with his hosts instead of overwriting them. While the merge is impossible for him to control, Jinn has indicated that he can have some impact on the degree to which his host is overwritten.
Whether Ozpin fully understands that mechanism even now, is another matter, but Jinn strongly hints that the host who invented the cane and who fathered the SEW was the lifetime in which he learned how to share life, and that it was the host's nature that dominated that lifetime rather than Ozma.
In fact, I suspect that this harmony is what allowed the SEW ability to manifest in his children. After all, how can you bring harmony to the world if you can't bring harmony with your host?
I think that host is going to be the key to Oscar's outcome. We're already seeing Oscar dominating Ozpin, and even though Oscar is picking up Ozpin's traits, we've also been seeing Ozpin picking up Oscar's traits.
Not just Tyrian. It's been mentiond multiple times that Ozpin's reincarnation appears to have occurred very fast this time round, beginning with Leo pointing it out. Everyone who knew he reincarnates was caught by surprise at the speed of his return. Including Salem.
Now, it's possible that he's just pushed his host into action far earlier than he normally does (perhaps he hides away until the merge is complete and his host is fully trained), but given that there are questions about how, and even why, he died, my belief is that it's linked. (And is linked to what he's done to protect the Relic of Choice.)
Does it matter if a theory gets debunked later on? The point is to have fun, to allow your imagination to explore the story and its setting. It's not a competition for people to win the most "I Knew It!" claims; we're not watching this to be right all the time, we're watching this to have fun and escapism.
Ozpin has a very interesting, and consistently portrayed character trait; when faced with personal confrontation, he falls silent, even shuts down, and stops engaging. We've seen it time and again: when Ironwood and the Vale Council confronted him in V2; when Cinder confronted him in V3; when confronting Leo in V5; when fighting Hazel in V5; when he shut down in Volume 6; when face-to-face with Salem in Volume 8; and so on. This goes all the way back to the wizard, who lived like that until the four sisters found him. It even goes back further, to the day he and Salem fought each other and got their children killed.
To quote you: "Also bring up his semblance in show and make it clear. I'm also mad that Winter said he sacrificed nothing when it's shown that he did sacrificed his mental health, his arm to Watts, and his public reputation."
See the bold part.
When magic, divine curses and an energy fuel that's more connected to magic than real-life science exist, it doesn't seem like a good idea to assume that a metal box will hold her. If a lockbox solution is available it will almost certainly need a supernatural element to counter the supernatural scale of her threat, such as the Relic chambers or whatever Volume 9 reveals about other realms and the Void.
That's assuming her Barred from the Afterlife curse doesn't also bar her from the Void Between the Worlds and other realms, of course.
I have a theory that she is part of that realm's problem already. But that's based on her scream resonating in the other realm rather than just Remnant (if that was her). That's because, if life and death exist in a delicate balance, then Salem having "infinite life" on Remnant's side of the equation means that something having "infinite death" must exist elsewhere. My theory is that'll be Salem's death — since her immortality doesn't really stop her dying, it's that her death undoes itself, possibly meaning that this death is being "redirected" elsewhere.... stored up in some kind of anti-Salem. Or, to get all Lewis Carroll about it, this show's version of the Jabberwock.
There was clearly some kind of contingency in place since Atlas had a massive store of back-up Dust to ensure that Atlas wouldn't instantly fall the moment it happened. However, we never learn what that contingency is since the plan isn't about saving the cities, it's about saving the people. Ozpin mentioned it solely to give them a ticking clock for the evacuation, not to dissuade their plan to sacrifice the infrastructure.
There's absolutely no point saving the cities at this point anyway. Salem and her army is there, so you're just sacrificing lives for bricks and mortar at that point. That was Ironwood's plan, and the heroes were dead set against that.
So, the show gives us a hint that a contingency for Atlas did actually exist, it just wasn't relevant for this particular situation because of the solution the heroes wanted to enact. Plus, who knows what Ozma originally put in place if people down the road have changed things for the worse along the way (and Atlas is all but stated to have been changing for the worse over time). We clearly don't know everything about Ozma's original intention, especially since it's indicated he changed his mind at some point, too.
It cannot create anything. It can only create anything that can be blueprinted.
And for that matter, even before the Word of God statement regarding Ironwood's fate, I'm not seeing why or how anyone would expect him to be alive after Atlas crashes into Mantle with him in the Vault room.
Agreed.
It's worth adding that there is no requirement for characters to have closure, and they often don't because it contributes to character development and/or motivation throughout a story. It's not like closure is a guarantee in real life either.
We do know the Vault doors will disappear. The door does seem to stay open for a little while, but we don't know how long. What we do know is that it stays open for less than a month. When we return to the Vault of the Spring Maiden a month later, the door to the chamber has disappeared. This could reflect the fact the Relic is no longer there, so the door is no longer there, but it does also mean the door is closed.
So, there's no expectation that the Vault of the Winter Maiden's door would remain open either. Again, how long is something we don't know the answer to.
Edited by Wyldchyld on May 28th 2022 at 2:53:03 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

I just don't see why one would think SCP Foundation of all things is evidence that it's easy to come up with a can for a powerful immortal.
The whole point of many of the entries is that it's really hard to do that and the measures one takes might not only be ridiculously difficult and immoral, they might not even be enough.
Edited by M84 on May 25th 2022 at 12:19:36 AM
Disgusted, but not surprised