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FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#75726: Apr 17th 2022 at 12:32:32 PM

Or just chuck the witch into space so she stops thinking.

Sometimes you don't need an ancient prophecy or epic mission from the gods to win.

Just some dumb luck and a volcano erupting at the right time.

Edited by FKJ10 on Apr 17th 2022 at 12:32:48 PM

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#75727: Apr 17th 2022 at 12:34:57 PM

@Psyga

No offense but you seem to be falling back into shifting Convo's into Pessimism.

Bow to the Prototype
Psyga315 Since: Jan, 2001
#75728: Apr 17th 2022 at 1:38:48 PM

None taken. I do apologize for the little bouts of pessimism, though.

gjjones Musician/Composer from South Wales, New York Since: Jul, 2016
Musician/Composer
#75729: Apr 17th 2022 at 2:46:40 PM

I've got a feeling that Team RWBY was initially the faster to Salem and her faction, but now they're the tortoise to her hare. Thoughts?

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
TwinBird Dunkies addict from Eastern Mass Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Dunkies addict
#75730: Apr 17th 2022 at 4:04:17 PM

[up] ...do you mean she's the tortoise to their hare? Because the one who slows down is the hare.

My posts make considerably more sense read in the voice of John Ratzenberger.
Psyga315 Since: Jan, 2001
#75731: Apr 17th 2022 at 4:10:37 PM

I think what they mean to say is that originally, RWBY seemed to be ten steps ahead while Salem just begun to pull ahead.

That's... not how it works. At all.

Salem (and to a lesser extent, Cinder) has always shown to be twenty steps ahead of everyone, pulling a Batman Gambit wherever she can to make the situation so bad that everyone who would have been unified against her are instead ripping each other apart while she goes in and gets what she wants.

She's also one to bide her time and wait, which is definitely what the hare's all about. Meanwhile, RWBY, for all their faults and even the memes made about their lengthy stays in houses, always kept moving forward.

FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#75732: Apr 17th 2022 at 5:07:50 PM

I still say the extended stay in houses from V5 and V8 really kills whenever someone brings up world building for me.

For all the talks about saving Atlas....the heroes never spent a single second on the Atlas streets.

Like even giving us the scene of Jaune, Oscar and Weiss going to the movies would have been sufficient for me to care about place.

As we've only been again Schnee Manor and Atlas Bases.

Mistral was even worse only seeing the criminal underworld with Cinder...when all the heroes were on the train to argus.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#75733: Apr 17th 2022 at 9:06:37 PM

"Yeah and that aura clause is what's ultimately used to make sure they don't have spare Penny's ready to pop out of a containment case the second a Penny dies.

That's what I'm focusing on the fact the aura is used to build drama as Pietro can only do it a finite amount of times or he dies."

To be fair Fiction do that a lot, is the problem of the doombots really. If anything Baymax example was a cheap way to create drama that was unecesary really.

". Seriously, if I knew Penny was gonna die anyway to the virus no matter the effort"

I mean the point is not if she was going to die for the virus but that Penny didnt survive Atlas and acept that all your effort can just not work, a lession RWBY where hard to no to understand and so far Only jaune seen to get.

"So she inspired others? So what? She's still dead"

That is mtter beyond her death, she could just die for an accident or die against a random grimm, is the fact that when all seen lost she still face down darkness.

I think the problem here is that the series often feel...contrived in many ways, Ruby coming on Phyrra aid is not bad, Ruby unleashing silver eyes(something barely hinted beforehand) feel like a deus ex machina, so the it take away part of the theme here.

"I think its the Fans who expect them to do that not anyone at the team who says that? They go for the best solution available and people tend to give them shit for...Well, not magically making all issues go away"

Well, considering how volume 8 turn out exactly: in volume 7 end with RWBY and group saying they will save everyone even when is clearly they have everything against it and the next volume....they dont acomplish much really and the solution come to them in fact, is only because Cinder ruin it that they are in this mess but without it was pretty much a "magical, golden plan" that could save everyone.

"Does Salem deserve any form of saving/redemption? No. "

That is very arguable considering how she ended there in the first place, Salem can be redeem. The problem are the brother really.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Psyga315 Since: Jan, 2001
#75734: Apr 17th 2022 at 9:11:48 PM

This is the pessimism talking, but I don't know how they're gonna pull off a Salem redemption arc without giving her some comeuppance. Emerald, while base-breaking, at least had the excuse of being sad uwu about being evil.

Meanwhile, Salem is out here blowing up Kingdoms to kingdom come just so that she can have the Gods smite her because she, in her infinite wisdom, thinks the Gods wouldn't just spare her like they did the last time they nuked humanity, and the Fridge Horror that murdering her own kids (accidentally or otherwise) wasn't enough to make her realize the meaning of life and death lowkey implies she's Beyond Redemption.

Cinder is a harder sell due to having outright killed two fan favorites and nearly killing a third one, not to mention all the other killings she did. I do not see her giving the same "I'm gonna be pissed if you fight the moment I switched sides" line with everyone laughing along.

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#75735: Apr 17th 2022 at 9:22:32 PM

If Cinder joins the Heroes I would want Epic Teeth-Clenched Teamwork at best, to me that would be way more entertaining than anything like that.

I should say I do not think Salem's plan is dumb, just selfish. The Gods said her curse was based around 'As long as this world turns, you shall walk its face', so it would basically destroy the world outright instead of just people living on it. It's just selfish because she wants to do this to cast aside her curse instead of just learning the lesson, in essence being willing to wipe out the whole world rather than admit to being wrong.

Plus either could still get Non Death commupenance

Edited by Snoketrope on Apr 17th 2022 at 9:23:05 AM

Bow to the Prototype
TwinBird Dunkies addict from Eastern Mass Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Dunkies addict
#75736: Apr 18th 2022 at 12:13:55 AM

Still think Cinder's got to die now that Penny's dead, since, unless black is white, up is down, and the Summer Maiden has nothing to do with Summer, Cinder's now the only Maiden without an intimate connection to one of Team RWBY.

As for whether either deserves redemption, though... why don't you ask the charred skeleton downhill from Haven if Cinder deserves redemption? And that's spitting on the sidewalk next to all Salem's done, and all the evil she's actually done is itself spitting on the sidewalk next to plotting to wipe out two sentient races. Nothing could excuse that, not even being a plaything of even worse gods.

Edited by TwinBird on Apr 18th 2022 at 3:49:55 PM

My posts make considerably more sense read in the voice of John Ratzenberger.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#75737: Apr 18th 2022 at 12:19:53 AM

Redemption seems unlikely right now anyway. Neither of them are even close to admitting they did anything wrong, much less deciding not to be assholes anymore.

Remember that redemption isn't really something you can deserve — no one's entitled to it. It just means you make the choice to stop being an asshole.

Edited by M84 on Apr 19th 2022 at 3:20:57 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#75738: Apr 18th 2022 at 12:52:13 AM

At the very most I would see Cinder turning on Salem for not exactly selfless reasons, like realizing she is being manipulated by her or discovering the fact the real plan is to Nuke earth, which obviously, would include her.

A Salem redemption could go if they ever go down the 'Cinder upstages Salem and becomes the Big bad' route.

Bow to the Prototype
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#75739: Apr 18th 2022 at 1:04:04 AM

I just can't think of anything that would get Cinder to realize she was a jackass and decide to stop being a jackass.

Hazel made sense since finding out Salem's true agenda let him realize that his sister did not actually die for nothing (his original Face–Heel Turn was due to thinking Oz sent his sister and all other Hunters to die for nothing).

Disgusted, but not surprised
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#75740: Apr 18th 2022 at 3:51:15 AM

Maybe Cinder doesn't have to realize she's a jackass. Teeth-Clenched Teamwork and Karma Houdini would be a suitable enough endpoint for the character.

This is the pessimism talking, but I don't know how they're gonna pull off a Salem redemption arc without giving her some comeuppance ...

Cinder is a harder sell

I mean it's not like anyone's said they "have to be redeemed" or that they "definitely will."

Sauron, Emperor Palpatine, Azula, Esdeath, Kaguya, Negan, Naraku - sometimes Damn, It Feels Good to Be a Gangster! overrides the need for a Redemption Arc.

At most I predict Cinder could develop some level of empathy (see Locus from Red VS Blue) and strive to redeem herself with no definite goalpost. But, and I would have some respect to the writers for this, maybe she never does. Maybe she embodies true narcissism and pulls a Karma Houdini by the end.

It's kind of neat that, as much as critics like to rag on the franchise for this, racism doesn't become an obvious force or a solvable problem on Remnant. Likewise, with similar if accidental nuance, the issue of Cinder's morality isn't something that has to be "punished" or "fixed." Selfish, ruthless people exist and sometimes they outlive kinder, nobler people.

Cinder might go this whole series, get what she wants, realize it's not what she wants, regret that, briefly team up in order to Set Right What Once Went Wrong, and then bail from the heroes with nothing truly resolved between them.

Because nothing Cinder could do or say would repair or replace what she took from Jaune, Ruby, Nora, and Ren.

Just like nothing they do could repair or replace Cinder's childhood trauma, or Salem's abuse.

There's an antagonist from The Walking Dead who performed actions much like Cinder - killing a main character who compared to everybody else was probably the most innocent character in the group - and when he's defeated he isn't killed. The heroes end up in Teeth-Clenched Teamwork with him, and the resolution of his character arc is that, though he's obviously changed as a person, he still can't be anything more than the Token Evil Teammate. His "redemption arc" so to speak is that the person he traumatized the most left him to suffer alone rather than execute him.

Because there's nothing he could do or say by that point that would repair or replace what he took from them.

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#75741: Apr 18th 2022 at 4:00:23 AM

Yeah and that aura clause is what's ultimately used to make sure they don't have spare Penny's ready to pop out of a containment case the second a Penny dies.

That's what I'm focusing on the fact the aura is used to build drama as Pietro can only do it a finite amount of times or he dies.

Nobody's disagreeing with that. My posts are a polite way of saying "So, what? It's almost always going to be something. In this show, it's Aura."

Except when you even have popular movies such as Big Hero 6 where Baymax literally gives Hiro a USB drive with his memories to rebuild him after his heroic sacrifice. The robot had enough sentience for self preservation

I'm afraid I've never heard of Big Hero 6, so I can't comment on it. However, I do have Disney+, so I'll have a look, see if the film is on there, and give it a watch to see how Baymax is handled.

I'm not even gonna bring up Ultron again where his constant body hoping and hive mind reach absurdity in the comics even with the usual man and machine sci-fi philosophy between him and Hank Pym

Hell even in RVB Lopez is constantly snarking that he's got a back up body ready whenever the Blood Gultch crew are in danger. With even the Red's treating rebuilding him with all the seriousness of fixing a car.

Wait... I'm now not sure what you think I'm saying. Ultron is a great example of what I've been talking about: he is the corruption of someone's humanity (his own, in this case, which is common in sci-fi) and the essence of the sci-fi debate about the man and the machine. And Lopez himself is a parody of this very concept.

You're right, RT does know this concept is a very big thing in sci-fi... they've both parodied it (Lopez) and played it straight (Penny). They've even done both (Sheila and FILSS).

That unfortunately makes me want to agree with Salem then.

And many people will. Salem is a "Sympathetic Villain" for a reason. She's taken the way many ordinary people would react, and then dialled it up in a way many ordinary people wouldn't do (through lack of resources, or will, or scale of despair, etc.). Even her reason for destroying the entire planet is the rational conclusion to her situation based on the person that she is and the extremity of her situation.

The God of Light's decision to give Ozma the form of immortality that he did sounded like he was trying to avoid admitting that they'd handled Salem's punishment badly. We already know that they do screw up.

But, the very idea that Salem needs to be saved (rather than destroyed) does require her to be empathised with. The reason a hero is a hero, however, is because they can find a way to do something that ordinary people cannot.

Most people, when faced with the question I asked, can't answer it, and will — like you say — empathise with Salem's situation. But is hope is very much the weapon of war in this show, and that's what the solution will rest on.

For Salem, the mountain that needs to be climbed is to figure out how to give her hope. That is not a small feat, and I very much doubt that it's something Ozma will have ever considered feasible — even if he's ever considered it at all. Indeed, I expect him to not have considered it because he's too busy empathising with it (judging by the way he explained it to Hazel). He wants the release of death, too. If he's too busy empathising with that feeling, and also too hurt by everything that's happened between them, then he has not had the capacity to think of hope for Salem. He doesn't even think of hope for himself.

But, that's why Ozma needs saving first. Even if characters do reach the conclusion that Salem needs to be saved, it's not going to be possible to even try without Ozma's support. And that's not going to happen without first giving him hope, too.

Then again, I'm biased because I don't believe in hope. "Hope" I find just sets you up for a bigger fall into despair. It's why I don't believe in hoping something will happen, you make it happen. As much as an asshole as he was, I tend to agree with Felix on the notion of "hope". Felix: You gave these people hope. And with that came a new level of motivation to fight harder. To die faster. All with the belief that their sacrifice might actually mean something. But you know what? It all means nothing! At the end of the day, if I'm stronger than you, and I'm faster than you, then I can kill you. Hope means nothing without the strength to make that "hope" into reality. On it's own, "hope" means little in the face of countless loss and death. Unless you have something to back up that hope, to give you a reason to make it worth hoping, then it doesn't change the fact that all of the effort and heartbreak was meaningless.

If you want something to happen, you don't waste time hoping. You do everything you can to make it happen. You don't dress up the loss of life as something to inspire a reason to keep going, you acknowledge it as a cautionary tale and a reason to make sure others don't meet the same fate.

Welcome to the HopePunk genre.

Just to expand that: I do sometimes think that, in some ways, HopePunk genres work best on people with your mindset, precisely because the point of HopePunk is the effort. It's easy for people to get starry eyed and idealistic about the hope element, but the important thing is that this is punk. Punk is a word that often gets glossed over, and has come to be used in so many different ways that it can be meaningless (which encourages people to keep glossing over it). But, if something is Punk, then it's gritty in some fashion: it's heavy, it's rough, it's raw. It's also rebellious.

Characters don't go through a HopePunk experience because it is some kind of ideal people should aspire to; HopePunk tends to cover things people should never in their wildest dreams ever what to experience in their lives. The kind of ideal people aspire to (summed up in the RT community as "keep moving forward" because it was Monty's defining phrase) is the very idealism you're objecting to here. And I would, honestly, agree with that. It's such a nice phrase, but it's only when you stop and really think about what it means that you realise the scale of trauma it's glossing over. It's a phrase that only works when someone's life has fallen apart so completely that all they want to do is give up and die. The sheer scale of effort it takes to get from "can't get out of bed" to actually getting out of bed (and we haven't even addressed having a shower or getting dressed here) is almost lost by the phrase — it's the point of the phrase, and yet somehow lost by it, all at the same time.

It's like Nolan's Batman and the repeated phrase "Why do we fall?" — picking yourself up is completely meaningless until you've been utterly crushed... and, when you finally are crushed the pithy little phrase doesn't seem adequate to the sheer scale of effort that's required to just do the absolute bare minimum to "keep moving forward" (which is "get out of bed"). It almost feels like a lie.

At some point in the future, when you're in a better place, you can look back on that time and say "Well, yeah, if I had to describe it I did indeed pick myself back up or I did indeed keep moving forward", but at that point, you also know just how empty it is to keep parroting the phrase (certainly the way the RT fandom does). And that's the same for the HopePunk genre, too. People parrot the hope and forget that the point is the sheer effort it takes to keep going through despair. Pithy phrases don't get Frodo to Mount Doom, soul-destroying effort does. And his soul never recovers.

In any other series the heroes would just resolve to seal Salem away in another dimension or erase her from existence a la Zamasu because she's that much of a monster.

Some stories, yes. Other stories, no. And, who knows, that might well be the solution for this particular story, too. That's perfectly okay.

When it comes to the concept of redemption of villains, there actually is no bar for what crimes a villain can commit beyond what the work itself decides.

This idea that fans can just decide that a villain is too heinous for them, therefore that villain has no right to be redeemed, and if the villain does (or even does not) get redeemed it's automatically "bad storytelling" doesn't have any basis in storytelling reality (in general terms) and doesn't really have a basis whether or not a villain actually can — or will — be redeemed in an individual work.

There is no universal bar that exists for storytelling as a whole. There is only a bar that each work sets for itself — a bar that can even be different for each individual villain within the same work.

That's what creates great debates about whether villains should have been redeemed or not. It's how the concept of the Moral Event Horizon came to exist in the first place. The exploration of redeeming terrible villains is an interesting concept. That's why stories exist that explore it.

Has this work set up Salem to be a "Sympathetic Villain" who needs to be "saved" instead of "destroyed"? Yes. Will she be "saved" in this specific storyline? Not necessarily. Will the seeds be planted in this specific storyline for her to be "saved" (or save herself) at some future date beyond the scope of this storyline? Perhaps, but again, not necessarily.

If it's your theory that it will happen in this specific storyline? That's not a problem. If you don't like that theory, and have a different one, that's okay, too.

Or just chuck the witch into space so she stops thinking.

Sometimes you don't need an ancient prophecy or epic mission from the gods to win.

Just some dumb luck and a volcano erupting at the right time.

Just because that works in one story, doesn't mean it has to work in all stories.

I still say the extended stay in houses from V5 and V8 really kills whenever someone brings up world building for me.

There's absolutely zero problem with a couple of characters spending a couple of episodes stuck in a house due to a combination of critical injuries and Heroic BSoD, where the Heroic BSoD actually gets explored (which it does). In fact, if we're to believe these are teenage heroes who are experiencing something beyond their ken, we'd expect these moments to happen. If we expect Ruby to break at some point in the story, then we need to see these moments happening to her in the run up to that eventual break.

And heroes often go through these moments, so it shouldn't even be that surprising.

If the real issue is that Atlas city wasn't explored and exposed the way Mantle was, that's a completely different issue, and the two should not be conflated. It's not a zero sum game. It could have been possible to do both, they chose not to.

For the record, I do have an issue with the lack of exposure to the city of Atlas.

I think the problem here is that the series often feel...contrived in many ways, Ruby coming on Phyrra aid is not bad, Ruby unleashing silver eyes(something barely hinted beforehand) feel like a deus ex machina, so the it take away part of the theme here.

Remember, tropes don't have to be bad. Even tropes like Deus ex Machina. Tropes can be done badly, however. I think the silver eyes foreshadowing wasn't done well. There are actually more foreshadowing moments for the silver eyes than just Ozpin's comment in the pilot episode, but many are so subtle that even hindsight has made it difficult to spot them, and the creators have had to point them out in interviews, as a result.

This comes back to my feeling the writers obsess too much over the issue of how fast the fandom will figure things out. It drives them to be more cryptic than they should be, and foreshadowing becomes too obscure at times, so even hindsight can struggle to detect it all.

That doesn't mean having cryptic foreshadowing is bad, and having foreshadowing that's hard to spot even on rewatch is bad. But it can lead to a lack of balance between the "spottable", the Rewatch Bonus, and the "so obscure, why bother" types of foreshadowing.

I don't think the silver eyes foreshadowing was quite as bad as the fandom makes out (because the opening credits clues are spottable, and definitely spottable on rewatch), but other clues? That whole Qrow conversation with "They don't give out medals for 'almost'" and "They do! It's called silver!", I'm still not completely sure if that's genuine foreshadowing or just fans seeing what they want to see.

When I say I don't think it's as bad as the fandom makes out, that's a low bar. I do think the foreshadowing was bad.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Apr 18th 2022 at 4:58:25 AM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#75742: Apr 18th 2022 at 8:51:33 AM

Someone added Team Mom to Yang's character page. I've put it on the Discussion Page, if anyone would like to weigh in:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=Characters.RWBYYangXiaoLong#comment-145043

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
bandersnitch Since: Aug, 2016
#75743: Apr 18th 2022 at 11:04:33 AM

Regarding the reception of Volume 8, I'm not sure if I would put it within the "good volumes". From what I saw, three, six, and seven, are commonly regarded as the good volumes. Volume 8 wasn't really that well liked. And best, I would say, it's regarded as okay, and at worst as the second-worst volume.

Many of the of volume 8's elements were divisive or outright seen as bad, though some of these points are continuations from previous volumes:

- The actions of the protagonists

- Ironwood's role as an antagonist

- Hazel's and Emerald's redemption

- Penny's death

- The Schnee family arc

- The Mansion and the prison being the House 2.0

- The lack of agency for Weiss and Blake

- Salem's role as an antagonist

- Cinder's story arc

- The quality of many fight scenes

- The abilities of the staff and how it was used

- The Ace-Ops' role in the story (besides Marrow)

- Ren's and Nora's role in the story

- The lack of exoloration of the Atlas Kingdom

- The competence of the Atlas Military

In general, I would say that for many the quality of the volume died with the Hound.

Edited by bandersnitch on Apr 18th 2022 at 11:05:18 AM

Psyga315 Since: Jan, 2001
#75744: Apr 18th 2022 at 11:16:29 AM

[up]That or it died with Salem (technically).

TwinBird Dunkies addict from Eastern Mass Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Dunkies addict
#75745: Apr 18th 2022 at 11:31:30 AM

Volume 8, because of the hiatus, almost feels like a "good volume" followed by a "bad volume."

My posts make considerably more sense read in the voice of John Ratzenberger.
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#75746: Apr 18th 2022 at 1:35:03 PM

Really.

Well, I liked it.

Besides that Disney Villain Death they pretended to give Yang and killing off Watts so anti-climatically instead of him entering a surrogate Papa Wolf relationship with Cinder, I liked it.

Because if you tell me Watts making Cinder take a seat and start crying wasn't the beginning of some therapeutic character development between the two, I will slap you.

Edited by FOFD on Apr 18th 2022 at 4:35:42 AM

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#75747: Apr 18th 2022 at 3:25:32 PM

Regarding the reception of Volume 8, I'm not sure if I would put it within the "good volumes". From what I saw, three, six, and seven, are commonly regarded as the good volumes. Volume 8 wasn't really that well liked. And best, I would say, it's regarded as okay, and at worst as the second-worst volume.

That really depends on where you choose to look. The parts of the Internet where the hate-watchers and Caustic Critics hang-out, it's very much majority negative — they mostly hate the Volume 8 music, too.

If you go to the parts where the regular fandom hangs out, you'll find a range of opinions. About the only consistency is that most people rate Volume 3 highest, regardless of how they feel about V8. Mixed is definitely the best description here.

If you go to places that are mostly independent of Rooster Teeth fandom or hatedom activities, the reception is mostly positive. In places that measure sales or ratings feedback, there's consistency across volumes.

Since my curiosity has been piqued, and that's always a bad thing, I popped over to IMDB to see how the ratings over there score the volumes and individual episodes. I've put the average for the volume at the top for ease of reading and put the highest and lowest rated episodes in each volume in bold:

  • Disclaimer: Have fun with this. I've done it for the giggles, not the debates.
  • Highest Rated Episode: V3:E12 (9.7)
  • Lowest Rated Episode: V1:E2 & V7:E12 (7.1)
  • Volume Average Rating (highest to lowest): V3 (8.8); V2 (8.5); V6 (8.2); V5 (8.1); V4 (8.0); V8 (7.9); V1 (7.7); V7 (7.6).

I'd have done the same for Rotten Tomatoes, but RWBY doesn't have any coverage over there that I can find.

    Data 

Ratings:

AV 7.7 8.5 8.8 8.0 8.1 8.2 7.6 7.9
E# V1 V2 V3 V4 V5 V6 V7 V8
01 7.4 8.9 8.5 7.9 7.9 8.5 7.6 7.4
02 7.1 8.0 8.1 8.1 8.4 8.6 7.5 7.4
03 7.5 8.2 8.9 7.8 7.8 9.2 7.7 7.9
04 7.5 8.7 8.4 8.0 8.6 7.9 7.5 7.9
05 7.6 8.2 7.9 7.6 7.5 8.2 7.5 8.2
06 7.5 8.5 8.9 8.4 7.9 8.7 7.5 8.0
07 7.6 8.7 8.9 8.4 7.5 8.0 7.5 8.0
08 8.6 8.2 8.6 8.0 8.1 7.6 7.2 7.8
09 7.3 8.3 9.1 8.0 7.3 8.4 7.8 8.4
10 8.0 8.3 9.3 8.3 8.6 7.5 8.1 7.8
11 7.3 8.8 9.5 7.7 8.3 7.6 8.6 7.6
12 7.3 8.6 9.7 8.3 8.3 7.8 7.1 7.2
13 7.4    8.7 8.0 7.3 8.5
14 8.0    7.9   8.0
15 8.0        
16 8.5        


Number of Votes Cast:

  • Included to show whether there's a significant change across volumes, given that older volumes have had more time to collect votes than newer volumes.
  • Note: there's an outlier for V3:E12, an unusually high number of people voted.

AV 216 193 230 162 161 163 159 158
E# V1 V2 V3 V4 V5 V6 V7 V8
01 274 291 214 152 171 164 158 159
02 213 165 157 171 171 166 158 152
03 267 182 224 152 147 223 149 158
04 217 191 158 155 180 143 146 159
05 199 168 162 159 147 143 147 163
06 213 173 191 178 140 163 149 160
07 209 217 199 159 149 152 144 154
08 224 159 186 150 149 141 155 152
09 223 194 212 153 147 148 141 161
10 182 166 290 176 156 157 151 149
11 215 208 283 155 164 179 193 151
12 237 206 489 183 168 167 201 150
13 176    173 167 177 168
14 217    187   169
15 192        
16 202        

Edited by Wyldchyld on Apr 18th 2022 at 3:36:29 AM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#75748: Apr 18th 2022 at 4:18:09 PM

they mostly hate the Volume 8 music, too.

For Every Life, The Sky Is Falling, Be Strong And Hit Stuff are gems. Treasure, while not my favorite, and the slow and sad Weiss songs are a bit repeititve, its just some beautiful singing.

Edited by FOFD on Apr 18th 2022 at 7:21:14 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#75749: Apr 18th 2022 at 5:45:01 PM

Emerald have mostly the fault that she did nothing to inredemable to the audience. "To the" being the key word here. Redemption more often that not dosent play to the chararter but to us acting as judge.

Like for example Tobis drake argue that Zuko wasnt more a redemption but a heel face turn. Almost everything was about him become good and his actually redemption last few episodes. It was kinda easy as his evil feel very team rocket. I why I belive Mercury can turn good and probably will(and it will hammer how much Alone Cinder really is) with Salem? it can be but it demand a very good resolution.

Now to expand what I said before, with hope punk and other it also require what I call the ilusion of coincidence, a form of feeling where you feel "Fate" decide something for a chararter instead the author. In this case some element of RWBY often come as contrived.

Like Ruby silver eyes is a example, the battle with Phyrra is important because it means that not matter what, Phyrra does held to the idea of what it means being a hunter and that trans her even after death, that is worth fighting, also it means to held on the idea sometimes thng can change in your favor even when all seen lost. But since Ruby silver eyes feel force the point is lost.

In a way Penny death feel this way, it does fit the theme that sometimes effort can fail, that you can try your very best and even them you will fail not matter what, but as we see it feel the author just decide to screw with the audience.

Is a tricky situation and I dont fault people who dislike the ending for it.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#75750: Apr 18th 2022 at 6:20:45 PM

[up][up] I do have the soundtrack. I just haven't got around to listening to it. I have some time this week, so I'll do that. I generally post my thoughts on the music, so I'll do that once I've listend to it.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

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