The issue goes back to "is the victory feel earned?" which for many come as.....not really.
Like, let go to volume 5: by series intentions it should be the good guys victory, the one when they do things right and some stuff are compeling like Blake convincing Ila to drop the fight and make meneragie move.....and yet I have yet so see someone in the brothers-damn fandom to actually count this as victory for a good guys and not a monumental screw up for the bad guys, why? because Adam get the power by doing a powermove by killing Sienna(who was present and them killed in minutes), them Adam becoming more of a incel meaning people stoping giving a shit, the heroes sitting in the damn chair and doing nothing until the villian plan the ambush and so on, since isnt earned there is not feel of strugle of hope, it feel the author pull it away and them pull it back at whim.
the same can be said or nearly all volumes: like how watts go back and fort from mantle to atlas without issue, how rwby strugle with a damn mech and cinder move nearly close to the academy itself or how they won in part because weiss mon have camera install in the house all the sudden and the narrative just sort of forget to tell you about, the whole issue of needing a good damn magic macguffin to enact a plan.
In short, is hard to have a hopepunk when the plot it feel it jump around every now and them in order to have a story tell certain way.
"It's easy to say that Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse when one doesn't have to suffer from one nearly as bad."
Funny with Adam it barely feel that trope because adam past or is brand barely play a role, for 98% of his story he act like a entitled douche and when he finally reveal it is to be a dick toward blake and them he just die, is kind of hilarious.
"The White Fang were only stopped thanks to the timely arrival of the Faunus Militia and the Mistralian Police"
The most hilarious part of this is Adam brought those mook because it was a cover mission and blake manage to bring a entire militia without him noticing, and the less about Adam was punk the better.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"Adam isnt barely the trope, hes not the trope at all.
For Cinders actions during the Haven Arc, I don't think it's a matter of her forgetting Ruby or her getting distracted, I think its just that Watts was wrong or Right for the Wrong Reasons. That the real reason she took the deal was to backstab Raven later to get the Maiden powers. The following seasons are fairly consistent that Cinder prioritizes The maiden powers over Ruby, she wants to Kill Ruby, but she doesn't see it as 'Wanting' the Maiden powers, to her she Needs them.
Bow to the PrototypeThe issue I have is that Team RWBY pretty much achieved nothing that wasn't immediately undone in nearly a decade of the show, while the bad guys basically come from the Bleach Villain school of "I win cause the plot says s lol".
There are plenty of stories that go way bleaker and darker than RWBY. But the problem isn't that, it's that there's nothing to counterbalance the darker aspects. There is no triumph or meaningful achievements along the way (or at least not ones that aren't immediately invalidated).
We all know the second half of Bleach sucked and while it was never the bleakest thing in the world. One of it's biggest problems was Aizen and how the plot would bend over backwards to ensure that he allways came out on top and that nothing the good guys did so much as mildly inconvenienced him, to the point were it jus got boring and no one cared when it was finally time for him to actually lose. And the the stupid Quincy guy came along and was written the exact same way. That's basically how Salem (and to a lesser degree her inner circle) is written.
So @Wyldchyld answer me this, if the only meaningful thing any of the heroes is going to achieved against Salem is at the end of the show and the only meaningful victory is the final one (which is how things are shaping up to play), then why should one care about anything the heroes do between now and then.
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That's not exactly what happened in Bleach. Also, the Arrancar Saga is considered the most popular part of Bleach. While you might have a point with Aizen, that's not true with Yhwach at all, since his plans got derailed majorly at a few points.
And that RWBY didn't achieve anything isn't true either. Almost all antagonists are dealt with at this point. Only Neo, Cinder, Salem, Tyrian, and Mercury are remaining. Mercury's more of an afterthought and Neo will in all likelihood stop her antagonism after the island trip.
There's a lot to counterbalance the darkness. There's so much that the darkness doesn't feel that dark. In volume 1, Torchwick and the Whitefang were stopped and had to scramble, while Weiss and Blake made up. In volume 2, the Breach was stopped with little fanfare, and Torchwick was caught. In volume 3, Ruby was able to stop Cinder and the Wyvern with her silver eyes. In volume 4, Ren got to kill the Nucklavee, Qrow survived, and they made it to Haven. In volumes 5 & 6, everything played out in the protagonist's favor. And in volume 7, they managed to save Atlas citizens, and Salem lost half of her team. For all the supposed doom her arrival heralded at the end of volume 7, it turned out not to be such a big deal. Most of the problems came from Cinder and Ironwood.
Yes, it is.
No, it doesn't. The set up was that Cinder wanted to screw with the plan for Ruby, Watts immediately warned her that this would blow up in her face, and we were quickly made privy to the fact that Raven wanted chaos to give her a chance to steal the Relic for her own purposes.
Plus, we had set-up going on for Cinder to be screwed over by a Maiden plot twist — although most people need hindsight for that one (some fans did guess it in advance; I wasn't one of them).
That's ignoring the set-up we'd had since the beginning of Volume 4 about Cinder wanting plans changed to accommodate her grudge against Ruby, or that she had been shown to be at odds with Salem's idea of patiently using people instead of just grabbing what they want as fast as possible. Plus the set-up we had for Jaune losing his rag when he finally meets Cinder again.
The set-up was for Cinder to screw up, not for her to get the Ruby confrontation she wanted.
That's a misleading description of how events unfolded, given Cinder went through her usual "gloat at everyone" routine, which triggered Jaune's attack — while Cinder dealt with Jaune, Emerald made it her mission to stop Ruby from intervening because she knew about the silver eyes.
Cinder did what Cinder does best: we see her admiring her handiwork with a smirk before she goes off-screen for us to see what other characters are doing, which leads to the Ozpin reveal, at which point things became urgent for the villains.
From the moment Cinder showed up, she was acting like she had all the time in the world to stamp her superiority all over the situation and the people there, and stretching things out for her own enjoyment. The moment she realised Ozpin was present, she realised she didn't have the time she thought she did and became more urgent. Even then, she still found ways to insert gloating, but the Maiden power and Relic was her first priority.
The last we see of her, she's leering at Weiss's body — the person she's just fatally impaled. That is exactly what I would expect Cinder to be doing based on the person she is.
Just because Cinder has a hate-boner for Ruby, it doesn't mean she focusses on Ruby to the exclusion of all else. Cinder has multiple obsessions and driving character flaws, and Ruby isn't always at the top of her list. In fact, power seems to be at the top of her list, followed by Ruby. She consistently prioritises the Maiden power and Relics over Ruby.
I know you're not going to agree with a single word I've written because we fundamentally disagree with each other on this point; there's nothing wrong with that, but I'm not planning on going round in circles on this point either. I'm trying a New Year's resolution of cutting back on my habit of repetitively reiterating my posts. It might help me on the road to brevity. It's my very own Hope Punk journey.
Note the situation was weird? That did happen.
It absolutely wasn't earned. The heroes didn't win. The villains lost. "The heroes come out on top because the villains lost" is a subtle distinction from "The heroes come out on top because the heroes won", but it's very much what happened at Haven. The villains snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, that's the only reason why Haven and the Relic were saved.
There is a place in storytelling for this to happen, there's nothing inheritantly wrong with that. The problem we have is that it feels like we're supposed to believe the heroes won — which is why things like Yang's Volume 8 argument with Ren stand out. "Were we not ready when we saved Haven?" — well, um, no, Yang, you weren't. You didn't save Haven. The Faunus saved Haven, and only because Adam screwed up and tried to kill the Belladonnas. They didn't even save the Relic from falling into Salem's hands — Raven did that. The only reason the heroes got the Relic is because Yang shamed Raven into giving it to her.
No, it's not. It just means that the fandom theory that Cinder prioritises Ruby above any other desire is wrong, and not borne out by canon. Cinder consistently prioritises power over Ruby, which is why she chooses the Maidens over Ruby whenever there's a clash.
That isn't what I said at all. I've never claimed the only meaningful victory is the final one, and I don't believe that's the case anyway.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Jan 27th 2022 at 2:20:14 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading."Which kinda seems paradoxical since Ruby is the only person to actually hurt her up to that point aside from Pyrrha and possibly Ozpin, who she already took care of. "
That is because jaune words kinda strike a nerve on Cinder and the reason because of it is probably because her past with that guy who she kill whatisface.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"Yeah, that one.
Look the speech
"How you can you be so broken inside to take so many live and them come here and rub it up in our faces it like something to be proud off? All with that damn smile in your face!"
Is intersting cinder suddenly lose is smirk right away and I wonder why.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"For some reason I got renewed interest in this show and have been watching it from the beginning again, and I notice there's a lot of foreshadowing in the early seasons I missed until now. Some of it is really subtle, like when we first see Qrow watching the tourney and he leaves the bartender, then the bartender knocks over his glass by accident. It was actually Qrow's semblance acting but no way you'd be able to know this first watch. I just started season 3, which I remember being my favorite one.
Also wow I forgot how adorable Ruby is.
Edited by Vertigo_High on Jan 27th 2022 at 11:22:04 AM
There's definitely a huge rewatch bonus with this show.
I don't know which volume you're up-to-date with, so I won't say what moment is my favourite rewatch epiphany, but this show is an odd mixture of both flawed and underrated, all rolled into one.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Can we not waste two pages rehashing that old conversation?
Edited by RebelFalcon on Jan 28th 2022 at 5:00:30 AM
Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.You brought up Jaune and your dislike of his later Volume depiction, I got flashbacks, and I just wanted to nip it in the bud.
Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.
Oh... Well I fucked up then. I am sorry for assuming and making an ass out of myself.
This was brought up on the clean-up thread, but @Snoketrope's suggested entry for the Misaimed Fandom page, while still in need of some edits, looks like a good start in my opinion. What does everyone else think?
I've responded there
, and suggested a grammar edit, which I hope is okay.
I've also rewritten the other entries I thought were keepers, and the two ban evader entries as well to try and get discussion going. So, feel free to give feedback. A consensus would be good, since this may involve cutting the Misaimed Fandom page for having too few examples left.
Also, I still don't have any feedback on the videos I think need to be removed and edited. I'm going to list the post here, in the hope that there will be some feedback. If that doesn't work, I'll be asking the video moderation thread to remove seven RWBY videos, and to modify a further seven videos to remove spoilerific information.
That's a lot for one person to take to the video moderation thread without feedback, so feedback would be nice.
The original post is here
(dated 11th December 2021), this is the copy/paste of it:
Okay, I've gone through the remaining videos on the VideoExamples.RWBY page and found the following issues. Most are just in need of cleaning up spoilerific titles, descriptions and thumbnails, but a couple don't seem to be salvageable. Thoughts welcome:
- Ascended Meme: "RWBY versus Roman Torchwick": This is trope misuse; the fandom created some Idiosyncratic Ship Naming, and the writers decided to use some of the names (three out of five) for team attack names.
I don't know what trope this would be, but it didn't come from a memeThis is a Fandom Nod example, which can't be conveyed without description text. The video itself is mostly demonstrating Critical Status Buff. - Good Cannot Comprehend Evil: "Jaune Confronts Cinder Fall". This is trope misuse; the trope needs to demonstrate that the hero thinks there's still some good left in a character, but Jaune doesn't think there's any good left in Cinder, he just doesn't understand why she's so broken inside. It's also the identical video to the one uploaded to But for Me, It Was Tuesday. Keep that one and remove the Good Cannot Comprehend Evil one.
- Impaled with Extreme Prejudice: 'RWBY "Seeing Red"' has a spoilerific thumbnail and description. Unfortunately, it's such a short video that I can't see how to create a non-spoilerific thumbnail, so I'm suggesting it be taken down for being too much of a spoiler. Does anyone think it can be salvaged?
- Say My Name: The "WEISS!!!" video is too spoilerific for things that have nothing to do with the trope, from the realm the scene occurs in to what happens to Weiss, and Winter's status as a Maiden. There are plenty of less spoilerific moments in this show that could be used to demonstrate this trope.
- Cliffhanger: The "Salem arrives in Atlas" video is a massive spoiler in ways that have nothing to do with the trope, from the scene being depicted to the video title, description and thumbnail. There are plenty of cliffhanger examples in this show that can be depicted without revealing such huge spoilers.
- Traumatic Superpower Awakening: "Ruby uses her silver eyes" has a spoilerific title, description and thumbnail. The content of the video reveals three major spoilers (the death of a major character, the awakening of a previously unknown power in a second major character, and the location it happens in). So, there's no way to amend this without spoiling too many major plot points. Also, the trope is only demonstrated in the last 30 seconds of the video. So the first minute of the video is just about how one character dies.
- Villain Song: "I'm the One". The video doesn't demonstrate the trope. All it shows is a competition fight with a soundtrack. The only reason the song just barely makes the Villain Song trope is because it shares some lyrics with dialogue that's spoken in the show, but that dialogue does not appear in this video clip. It's also really hard to hear the song lyrics at all.
- Back from the Dead: "Penny Returns". The title, description and thumbnail are all spoilerific. Suggest a thumbnail change, along with the following changes:
- Video title: "Unexpected Intervention".
- Video description: "Ruby's group receives some assistance from someone they never thought they'd ever see again."
- Big Damn Reunion: "Ruby, Yang and Weiss reunite". The title and description are spoilerific. Suggest the following changes:
- Video title: "Team RNJR's gatecrashers"
- Video description: Team RNJR's meal prep derails when Qrow brings home the people they least expected to see.
- But for Me, It Was Tuesday: "RWBY Vol. 5 Ch. 11: The More the Merrier". The video title and description need to be changed. Suggest the following:
- Video title: "The Little People Don't Matter"
- Video description: Jaune discovers that Cinder doesn't bother keeping track of the suffering she's caused.
- Cane Fu: "Ozpin". The title and description are spoilerific. Suggest the following changes:
- Video title: "Hazel fights a cane-wielder".
- Video description: "Hazel's opponent may be small, but his cane-fighting skills make him a big problem."
- Ironic Last Words: "Lie, Steal, Cheat & Survive!". The title, description and thumbnail are all spoilerific. Suggest a thumbnail change, along with the following changes:
- Video title: Survival skills
- Video description: As all survivors should know, negativity gets people killed on Remnant.
- Karmic Death: "RIP Roman Torchwick". This has spoilerific video title and description. Suggest the following changes (the description is the one that's already there, just with the last few words knocked off and a grammar fix):
- Video title: "Death by Negativity"
- Video description: An angry, nihilistic speech about idealism getting people killed and survival being all that matters isn't the best move to make when surrounded by people-killing monsters that are attracted to negative emotions.
- Oh, Crap!: The "Neo is Mary Poppins" video has a problematic video description, including misuse of Reality Ensues (which has had a name change as well). Suggest the following changes (the description is the one that's already there, just with the last few words knocked off):
- Video description: Using her quick wits, Ruby shows Neo why using an umbrella at a high altitude is a bad idea.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Jan 29th 2022 at 4:13:45 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.EDIT: Moving to the clean up page.
Edited by RebelFalcon on Jan 29th 2022 at 7:25:15 AM
Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.

Like, it's the RWBY equivalent of this scene.