RWBY General Discussion

I'm expecting them to land in different places and for Ruby to be separated from Crescent Rose. In fact, several of them are separated from their weapons. Note that Blake also fell with the half of her weapon that the fandom complains she never uses. The other part got left behind long enough for Weiss to start fighting with it. So, yes, I absolutely think that weapon dependencies will factor into this.

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Someone caused an Edit War on the Recap.RWBYV 8 E 14 The Final Word page over whether the ending is Downer Ending or "Ray of Hope" Ending.

I've put it on the Discussion Page for discussion.

If anyone feels like commenting on which trope it should be, feel free to post there.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Apr 7th 2021 at 4:38:12 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

If they go to the Afterlife I keep imagining they meet Adam but he's like...Chill?

Like this

https://youtu.be/QXa3RHpV4GM

The First man

Even if he was very chill, I don't think Blake and Yang would be happy to see him. If anything, considering how Yang is, her attitude may just make him relapse since it would remind him of people treating him like a monster as a child just for being a Faunus. I.E., Reformed, but Rejected possibly culminating in Then Let Me Be Evil.

And no, I'm not saying this because I dislike Yang. Blake and Yang experienced legitimate trauma at Adam's hands. Him suddenly 180ing and being uber chill I doubt either would easily accept. And considering Adam is pretty much Spite incarnate and mentally unstable, I doubt he'd be able to remain chill if running into these two again.

Edited by RebelFalcon on Apr 7th 2021 at 12:33:11 PM

Vegeta: I'm back bitches!

That is of course, asuming it is the afterlive were they are going.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

I don't think it's the afterlife at all. It's just one of the many parallel realities the fairy tale book mentioned the original God wandered about. It can clearly sustain life considering the tree, but I think the entire purpose of them ending up on that reality is basically a massive bottle episode, a chance for the characters to get introspective, let loose raw emotions they've been repressing, and reimagine themselves and each other.

If the tree is based on Yggdrasil though, it could also be used for the sake of worldbuilding, with this reality being the "nexus" for all realities, and allowing them to possibly learn more about the Gods themselves and or see things in their world from multiple perspectives, possibly even see the past and learn things they otherwise wouldn't be able to, such as Cinder and Neo's backstory, or what Raven did after going to Patch, or what actually happened to Summer.

Vegeta: I'm back bitches!

mumble mumble that's not how Yggdrasil works and you'd have to ask the Norns about seeing the past or whatever mumble mumble

Now I'm hoping it's not Yggdrasil :p

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr

Speaking of the Gods, I'm curious where the story is going to go with them. Because they both seem like huge assholes and it seems like we're supposed to think that but also them coming back is supposed to be a good thing?

I'm curious how the story will play their inevitable return.

They could go anywhere with the gods really. From no better or worse then humans, overall good with Blue-and-Orange Morality. To the true ultimate villains of everything.

The First man

Them coming back is absolutely not a good thing. GOL made it pretty clear that Ozma's task of uniting people required there be no conflict period, no disagreements, no nothing. He was basically demanding a utopia. But as Oz seemed to realize himself over the eons and even commented on to Oscar while they were escorting the refugees, it's becoming harder and harder for people to unite due to all the things dividing them, most important of all, opinions.

So long as humanity has the capacity for free will, we will form opinions. So long as we can form opinions, we will have disagreements. Things eventually escalate, and conflict is born. It's why the ideas of Utopia are ultimately just a fantasy. Oz himself has come to realize just how impossible his task is, hence why for the last few centuries he's largely been playing keep away with Salem, cause that's frankly his best option. She's completely immortal, his task is impossible to achieve without stripping people of their free will, so the best he can do is fight her off, rebuild, and keep her back.

There are hints that the power dynamic between the two is lopsided in favor of GOL, and that GOD is the more sympathetic of the two, but even then, the dickbag was willing to Thanos Snap all of humanity after Salem lead her army, despite it being clear that it was not all of humanity rebelling against the gods.

Really, both of the gods are meant to be seen as dickwads, since even the Fairy Tale book Oz compiled suggests that they aren't true gods. They're only fractions of a single god who split himself in two like he was the Nameless Namekian, and they were King Piccolo and Kami. They are each only half of a full ego, and as a result it just leads to them clashing and causing bullshit, namely because GOL is self-righteous and thinks he's infallible, while GOD is immature and cares not for GOL's rules so long as he can get respect from humanity.

If comparing them to mythology, they're not gods like YWHW, they're more akin to the Greek Gods. And even the Greek Gods weren't always the top authority, as the Titans can attest.

Edited by RebelFalcon on Apr 7th 2021 at 1:50:16 PM

Vegeta: I'm back bitches!

Lights mission is vague as hell, it's not clear if that's what he means or if he just means generally at peace

And I know what the fairy tale said, but I'm absolutely certain were not meant to take it all at face value. And the book potrays light as a purely benevolent and nice guy god and his brother as being a Sadistic Manchild. When its indicated to not be as Black and White in the show, the book version Even portraying the judgment as a Bargain light was making to give humanity a chance as Darkness wanted to destroy reality.

The First man

Was he all that clear? All he said was "if your kind has learned to live in harmony with one another and set aside their differences... if you demand our blessings while still fighting amongst yourselves." It's not at all clear how thorough a peace he demands. I've said ad nauseum, the extremely peaceful present state of Remnant may well qualify already.

My posts make considerably more sense read in the voice of John Ratzenberger.

So, now that Volume 8 is over, I have a few proposals regarding the trope pages.

About the character sheets, should we move the Death Tropes to the main page if there are no objections?

And since the individual episode recap pages have multiple tropes that can be merged into an arc as a whole (like the Beacon arc), should we create an arc recap page if necessary (i.e. Recap.RWBY Beacon Arc)?

Edited by gjjones on Apr 8th 2021 at 6:30:52 AM

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.

I don't like the idea of arc Recap pages, personally. We're entirely dependent on how the creators see arcs. We only know for certain that Volumes 1-3 are a single arc called the Beacon Arc because the creators have talked about that being the effective 'prequel' and Volume 4 being where the proper story begins.

Beyond that, it's the fandom that's been chopping the volumes into arcs — we don't even agree on the names of those arcs. Look at the back-and-forth that's happened on the Recap page and the character page images about what to call the arcs.

I'm also dubious about the value of them — they'll either be stubs that don't thrive (like the trailer recap pages) or they'll be overwhelmed by the fandom trying to put every single trope that occurred in the episode recap pages, resulting in overloaded pages that are hard to navigate.

We also have a hard enough time sticking to the concept of episode-specific tropes and that not every trope is a suitable Recap trope (character tropes, for example). The problem will magnify when dealing with arc pages.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Apr 8th 2021 at 12:52:54 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Now that you mention it, do you think the RWBY Production Posse would be the ones to reveal the arc names?

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.

I have no idea. When the fandom talks about the creators revealing something, that covers the creators (Miles, Kerry, Monty) and the writers (+Kiersi, +Eddy) and CRWBY (the full crew including voice actors).

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I have a concern about moving Death Tropes. At the moment, Death Tropes can be (mostly) comfortably troped on character pages because of the spoilers off rule for prior completed volumes. If they're removed from the character pages and placed onto the work page, how those entries are written and spoiler tagged becomes extremely important.

In the Administrivia, the guidelines for writing entries make it clear that an entry should not be 100% spoiler tagged. I'm not talking about spoiler tagging the trope name (a big no-no). I'm talking about the full entry itself being spoiler-tagged. The reason why an entry should never be fully spoiler-tagged is because it's regarded as defeating the point of spoiler-tagging in the first place. The non-spoiler-tagged portion of the entry is supposed to be a complete entry in its own right that is not ZCE, which acts as a guide to anyone reading the page over whether to risk reading the spoiler. When an entire entry is spoiler-tagged, or the portion free of tagging is ZCE or a useless half-sentence, the reader has absolutely no way of knowing anything and pretty much has to read the spoiler just to figure out if they should read the spoiler.

That's the reasoning the mods have given multiple times when asked why entries shouldn't be fully spoiler-tagged.

As soon as we insist on putting Death Tropes solely on the work page, spoiler-tagging becomes very problematic. The half-way house is to engage in spoiler-tag swiss-cheesing (where tags are inserted randomly throughout the entry wherever a name or specific event gets referenced). The problem is that swiss-cheesing is also discouraged.

So, two things:

• Where is the decision that Death Tropes should be on the work pages instead of the character pages?
  • Note: I'm not talking about the tropes that are obviously setting/story tropes (such as how the afterlife functions or whether ghosts exist in the setting, for example). They wouldn't be on the character pages in the first place because they're individually not going to be character tropes. I'm talking about character-specific tropes, for example, Heroic Sacrifice, which do appear on character pages because they are regarded as being specific to that character rather than the story in general. And the ambiguous tropes that are treated like character tropes but might be story tropes (Alas, Poor Villain, for example) on the basis of the individual trope and not because they're Death Tropes.
• If we do have to move them, I really don't think they can be just lifted and dumped. They'll need to be rewritten to try and meet spoiler-tagging guidelines. And that's going to be extremely difficult in a number of cases.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Apr 8th 2021 at 1:09:07 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

How is his mission vague as hell? It sounds more than clear cut. Either humanity is peaceful with no conflict, or he wipes the board for good. Conflict however is an inherent part of humanity. That was only one fairy tale, and namely coincides with the fact humanity tended to demonize Darkness and whitewash Light. Remnant pretty much uses Darkness as an analogue to the devil, since instead of a Deal with the Devil, we have: Ozpin however specifically compiled fairy tales in the book that showed similar themes but different perspectives, as a means of challenging the reader into taking their preconceptions and discarding them, and to not think of things as black and white. It's why one tale said Darkness kept the Grimm around when they made humanity not to punish the humans, but to be an obstacle the humans needed to overcome so they'd be stronger, so they could grow, only to be upset when the humans chose to regard him with fear rather than thank him for this. The "extremely peaceful state" however was nothing but propaganda. Criminal organizations running unchecked like the Spiders, wanted fugitives on the loose like Roman Torchwick, racism running rampant against the Faunus, terrorist organizations attacking humans and faunus alike like the White Fang, Salem's forces working in the shadows to ruin it all. As others have pointed out, by "time of peace", they likely only meant in comparison to the rest of their existence, namely that this was the period after the Great War, their equivalent of World War I, that had ended with an absolute bloodbath in the Vacuo campaign.

And again, it's not hard to misinterpret the phrasing of "while still fighting amongst yourselves." Since even Ozpin has come to acknowledge that even in times of crisis, it's just part of human nature to fight amongst one another. Cause that's just part of what makes people "human" (and "faunus" too... there really needs to be a word that is the equivalent of "humanity" when referring to them together). Humans Are Special, because Humans Are Flawed. But that's not what Light wanted. Remember, he punished Salem for being a grieving widow and telling a lie by omission with immortality, and didn't expect her to launch a rebellion. And even before she launched a rebellion, he had the gall to call her arrogant. He punished her for not immediately accepting that her Living Emotional Crutch was dead, cursed her with immortality and told her the escape clause was "learning the value of life and death" when not even the damn brothers could agree on it, and made clear that to him, humanity was nothing more than an experiment... one that failed. I've said it before, but the gods, in particular Light, come across more as arrogant assholes who just don't like having their authority challenged, and the moment it looks like there's a problem, they'll invoke Never My Fault and place the blame on their creations rather than consider "Maybe I'm the asshole."

Edited by RebelFalcon on Apr 8th 2021 at 9:45:48 AM

Vegeta: I'm back bitches!

Because he's demanding the impossible: World Peace, no one infighting, no racism, literally a utopia.

Think of it this way: Why didn't Ozpin summon the Gods as soon as the Great War was done?

That’s not what vague means

Because that wasn't World Peace then. The generals of the armies all bowed before the Warrior King, but not the people. Remember, there are people like Cordovin out there still bitter about the Great War's outcome. And the generals didn't bow to the Warrior King not because they suddenly put aside their differences, they did so out of fear of what the Warrior King had done during the Vacuo Campain.

And even then, Salem was still working from the shadows with her own forces. It's why it's a theory that it was Salem who fired the first shot that started the Great War.

And yes, the God of Light is asking for the impossible. That's my point. That his task is something that can't be achieved, and is just evidence of his too high standards for humanity. He wants perfection, a utopia, and will accept nothing less, despite that going against human nature.

Since it's as you asked: if just general peace like the present day prior to the Fall of Beacon was good enough, why did Ozpin keep the Relics locked behind the Vaults still rather than bring them together? Because he knew it wasn't good enough for the Gods. "Peace" in and of itself is an inherently fragile concept. What Light wants however can't be fragile though. It has to be perfect for him to not nuke Remnant.

Edited by RebelFalcon on Apr 8th 2021 at 9:54:42 AM

Vegeta: I'm back bitches!

Ambrosius and Jinn have made divine intervention a little questionable.

• Jinn will answer questions elaborately but she also told Ozpin "you can't destroy her" with no further explanation
• Ambrosius will ask for keen explanation of something you want him to make, but Literal Genie

I suspect the Gods' coming back may not be absolutely a bad thing.

At the same time I can't see RWBY accomplishing fantasy realm world peace by Volume 18 or 19. So I'm quite curious how the gods will return.

Personally I think they'll be long dead and mankind will be left to fend for themselves.

Akira Toriyama (April 5 1955 - March 1, 2024).

Fantasy realm peace... that'll only last for about ten years before RT decided sequels are profitable.

It won't be that bad, it has to be solvable by speechifying so any systemic problems probably won't be that relevant

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr

https://strqyr.tumblr.com/post/643104807463288832/god-but-carmine-escaldos-from-the-books-would-be-a

Id actually like this even if Cinder just stayed an evil bitch as she is now, maybe Carmine joins Salem resulting in another Teeth-Clenched Teamwork situation like with Watts.

Hell even the symbolism with both are simmular, from what I've read they say how Carmine ironically became a solider to a different dictators army, just like Cinder only traded one Abuser for another.

The First man

One thing I'm hoping to see next Volume is Salem actually using a Relic. She had the Lamp for the whole of Volume 8 and couldn't use it because she didn't know the password, so we weren't shown what she would have asked. That's why in Volume 9 I hope they have her use the Staff, showing her creativity, and not just have it be taken from her before that happens.

Presumably she would have asked the location of the Beacon Relic/how to undo whatever Oz did to keep the vault hidden. They already have the power to open the Vault in Cinder, they just don't know where it is.

Although, Salem not knowing the password is interesting, since it seems like she's otherwise pretty informed about the Relics and what they can do.