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Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#69601: Jan 10th 2021 at 9:31:01 PM

I do have a question about that. Let's say Cinder dies. The Maiden powers are still in the Grimm, right? So there's no new Fall Maiden (alternatively, Salem gets the powers because Blah, Blah, Blah magic Grimm thingamabob.)

I dunno, taking away a power-up that impactful this late in the game seems kinda ...anticlimactic? Course, having the powers basically be in a storage jar isn't that exciting either, but you get my point.

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
RebelFalcon ULTRANumb from ... (Private)
#69602: Jan 10th 2021 at 9:49:36 PM

People have been theorizing that were Cinder to die or disobey her too many times, she'd put the Parasite inside the Hound and make it her Maiden hunter.

There's also the fact that there is still the Vault under Beacon Academy, and the only way to actually open it is with the Fall Maiden powers, and while Salem can't find it period, it's entirely possible Ozpin hid the Vault itself, as Cinder did comment that what she thought was the Vault under Beacon looked a lot less distinct than the Vault under Haven. And as the Vault in Atlas demonstrated, this wasn't unique to Haven, so it's entirely possible Cinder didn't find the actual Vault, but a false one.

Edited by RebelFalcon on Jan 10th 2021 at 12:51:55 PM

Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#69603: Jan 10th 2021 at 10:21:12 PM

TBH I'm not sure how much that theory really works, I think it's Cinder with the powers, but the Grimm arm connects to her as she gains it.

From what we've seen of the Maiden powers, it seems that it needs to latch onto a Soul, and Grimm, as we know, lack souls.

Bow to the Prototype
strange_idea Since: Jul, 2020
#69604: Jan 10th 2021 at 10:30:58 PM

I am also of the opinion the girls will likely not become maidens and find it better that way.

RebelFalcon ULTRANumb from ... (Private)
#69605: Jan 10th 2021 at 10:35:05 PM

We don't really know the mechanics of how the Parasite work, especially since it seems to have been made with magic since normal Grimm don't come out of gloves then dissolve into peoples bodies. Hell, for all we know Cinder's soul could be bound to the Parasite. The things we do know however is that Cinder took the powers via the Parasite, the Claw serving as her arm has the same ability to steal the powers, and that Salem has made clear she can take the powers from Cinder if need be.

Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#69606: Jan 10th 2021 at 10:43:30 PM

Has Salem made that clear?

The bit about it latching to her soul does sound like it could be the case however

Generally the way I read it is that Cinder is the one with the powers and the purpose of the Parasite is to Gain control over Cinder, thus giving control over the powers.

Bow to the Prototype
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#69607: Jan 10th 2021 at 10:52:51 PM

Ok will said with RWB Ytubers there is this sense that we are clasifying "good" from "bad" RWB Ytubers by pretty much on how much they like the series on how "respectfull" they are with their critics and at times it feel arbitrary, for all the critics that Unicorn kinda deserve, it feel weird it is now when some stuff was already there, I feel a sort of kneejerk reaction based on backlash.

As about RWBY being maiden...the fact penny was the one chose maiden for me cement the idea, aside of being cliche, acusasion of power escaling(as I said, the maiden can be beat, sure but is HARD and it would probably escale things to much, in fact I already think Penny will stay in mantle and atlas when all is said and down), RWBY dosent really need be maiden.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#69608: Jan 11th 2021 at 12:11:38 AM

A sort of Headcanon

I was thinking over how Prehistoric Grimm Exist...and was thinking if that meant Prehistoric Animals existed as well

My headcanon I'm leading too, is that in Ozma and Salems age, Dinosaurs were around as Animals

It's just a bit of an idea I had, imagine if say, Raptors were there Ages horses.

Bow to the Prototype
strange_idea Since: Jul, 2020
#69609: Jan 11th 2021 at 12:37:13 AM

unknowing, it's largely due to delivery and what they choose to criticize. Personal attacks, insulting or offensive statements and nitpicks or outright false information is bad faith criticism. I could try and find a video essay i saw a while back on the subject if you like.

[up]that makes a lot of sense... maybe they were the animals INSTEAD back when they were originally alive?

Edited by strange_idea on Jan 12th 2021 at 6:41:55 AM

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#69610: Jan 11th 2021 at 12:52:53 AM

male pronouns for FOFD.

I mean I personally don't care about the pronoun game, but the thought is appreciated. My user name was literally me bashing my fingers on the keyboard and Tvtropes accepting it, long ago.

RWBY tubers - "good" vs "respectful"

Fair point, but I've heard a lot of negative slant about Eruption Fang here and from a friend of mine.

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#69611: Jan 11th 2021 at 2:28:18 AM

I think one issue is that the Bar for rwbytubers is so low people consider it a bit of an accomplishment to not be as bad as people like Adel Aka and such.

I think that's something others are taking advantage of, Hbomerguy said before he released his Video critizing how there are seriously bad critics of RWBY and saying he'd do his best to review it in good faith, and at the start of the Video he talks about things calmly, and saying how he wasn't going to call the show 'Garbage' as it wasn't that simple, and saying there was alot to like about the show.

Over the course of the Video he basically does the same things alot of the crappy critics do, taking immature attacks at the Writers(Accusing them of being perverts, saying Neo was great because she couldn't speak so the writers couldn't ruin her, ECT) misrepresenting loads of things in the show to make there points. Endorsing Shane Newvilles letter.

Basically I feel like expectations are so low, people tend to praise alot of the less terrible channels while turning a Blind Eye to the flaws in them because of said low expectations. Or in cases like Hbomer, there are some who make themselves out to be ' The Good Critic' and denounce the darker parts of the RWDE, before basically doing the exact same thing, in some ways arguably worse.

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TwinBird Dunkies addict from Eastern Mass Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Dunkies addict
#69612: Jan 11th 2021 at 2:35:33 AM

But whatever, I don't care. I bet if and when Raven ends up finally pulling her head out of her ass and pulls a Heel–Face Turn, her killing people will rarely if ever get mentioned due to how little it mattered. Cause ultimately, the narrative indicates whether or not something will happen, and if it really cared about Raven killing people, it would have mentioned it more, especially when this series is about as subtle as a brick to the face.

Unquestionably. But that's standard, especially for major villains, even sometimes villains who've killed main characters. It doesn't mean she's not a villain.

... I'd say watching a man die is a deliberate choice to do wrong.

In what sense? What separates the desire to watch a man die from the desire for his Lien that makes killing him immoral in the former case and amoral in the latter?

And it is an official definition, it's not a Distinction Without a Difference.

I'm... a little lost by this sentence. Distinction between what and what? Definition of what? One of the three definitions you posted on page 2782? Which? I mean, English words don't really have "official" definitions to begin with, except in narrow contexts...

Weiss being held hostage? Not important to the plot. It lasts all of one episode and is just an excuse to get Weiss to meet up with Yang in Mistral.

You just described the importance to the plot; moreover, it's certainly important to the plot of that episode. Sure, they could have been brought together in another way, but they weren't. That's just the thing - yes, most of Raven's beats could have been hit in a way not contingent on her being a murderous bandit, but they weren't. That's the story we got, not the similar story where Raven abandoned her family to save Anima's puppies.

Let me make this abundantly clear. I don't judge a character based on actions they did offscreen. Cause that is an Informed Attribute.

That's fine to a point. Certainly what characters do offscreen is meant to have less of an emotional impact than what they do onscreen. We're probably ultimately expected to forgive Raven, even as the bones of her victims dry in the sun, surrounded by those of everyone who might have remembered them. But at the same time, we can't ignore everything a character does that isn't shown, especially when their role in the story is defined by the consequences of those actions. Raven's relationship to her family is strained because she chose a life of crime. Could it have been for a more virtuous reason without changing the plot of her and her family's arc? No! You could have a scene-for-scene, virtually line-for-line remake, but the plot would have changed by that alone. Not everything relevant to the characters' roles is shown on screen in any show; if it were otherwise, there would be no villain in a typical murder mystery.

"Also, using morality and empathy falls on death ears for me. Morality is nothing but arbitrary concepts that we give meaning to, and have no objective value."

That's fine. More than fine, I might as well have written it. But to say "X is not a villain" is to say that the term "villain" is meaningful enough to be falsifiable, and since part of the definition of "villain" is "evil," that requires some sort of moral code to be accepted at least temporarily, that of the narrative. Villains then come in three very broad categories, with endless shades:

  1. Just to get it out of the way, a category mostly seen in broad farces, where the villain recognizes the righteousness of the narrative's code, and rebukes it for its very rightousness.
  2. The villain won't deny what they're doing is wrong, or at least won't claim it's right, but that's less important to them than some other motive, money, revenge, compulsion, what have you.
  3. The villain has a moral code, and for the most part lives it, but this code is irreconcilable with that of the narrative. Usually the omnipotent pen will craft an object lesson on why its own is better.

1. Immoral, 2. amoral, and 3... something else. (Some supertrope to Well-Intentioned Extremist, Blue-and-Orange Morality, and probably a couple others.) Here I'm piggybacking off your usage, to my limited understanding of it, of the word "immoral"; in my own usage, I would argue that amorality describes motive, whereas immorality describes action, and thus a character can be either one alone or both at once. But the fact of the matter is that if a villain must be evil, then "evil" must encompass all three, or at least the first two, or there's virtually no such thing as a villain, not even Salem or Tyrian.

My posts make considerably more sense read in the voice of John Ratzenberger.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#69613: Jan 11th 2021 at 4:47:48 AM

snoke: it depend if they consider dinasour to be good for grimm, we have mammoths but I dont know other, in general grimm feel better as fantasy critters than anything else.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#69614: Jan 11th 2021 at 7:56:17 AM

I think you misread the post

"I do think that Cinder does care about Emerald on some level but does not know how to care about other people or do to what happen with Rhodes she falls in the the Never Be Hurt Again mindset."

My interpretation is closer to the Latter

I think that Cinder has a Double insecurity of not wanting to be alone, while simultaneously wanting to avoid getting Emotionally connected to them as a result of her Never Be Hurt Again mindset born from Rhodes.

The Result is that she collects her 'Assets' to Be around while simultaneously she avoids getting sentimental or close, instead going for a more Controlling approach.

Im actually starting to Theorize about that bit with Cinder being am Ungrateful Bitch to Neo last Volume, it will backfire on her, but not in the way that Neo backstabs or kills her, rather she just...Leaves Cinder alone. With Cinders continuing to act cold towards Emerald having a Similar result. And at the end of the Volume Cinder is just left alone Except for Salem.

Edited by Snoketrope on Jan 11th 2021 at 1:26:55 AM

Bow to the Prototype
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#69615: Jan 11th 2021 at 2:14:44 PM

Also, if we take cinderella as parallel them I will said wyld is wrong: Cinderella ALREADY have her "clock strike at twelve" moment and that was ruby flash her with silver eyes.

Why I said this? is her behavor, something that people like cinder or adam does without knowing is mimic opressor values and behavor in a way to understand power(since that is how understand everything), You can said adam is mimic is own version of being atlesean: controling, agresive, acting as he have a sort of uberly moral duty come to him to have faunus kind and that only an being overly agresive will acomplish that(even his post V3 suit look like ace ops with posite colors: red and black to white and blue).

In cinder case, she kinda act more or less how a atlesean elite expect to act: haughty, arrogance, always confident that everything willll transpire as she wants, were everyone is and accesory, I mean you can see that shift from female fatale to rabid woman as the saying the spell break off: she have her moment, the dress and carriage become normal stuff, now she have to endure her time with evil stepmother and sister(salem and hazel,tyrian and watts), I will said in this case merucry and emerald like mouse and other animals: silent parner for her to rage but never engage.

Which bring us to the important part: the crystal slipper, in the same altas is a cristal unicorn, is probably cinder is chasing a hollow dream of power, the question would be: what it fit for her? redemption or ultimate power as villian?:

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#69616: Jan 11th 2021 at 3:16:28 PM

To give a bit of a defense, it is possible for them to simply pull the same sort of symbolism twice, they already had a Ball allusion complete with a Midnight reference back in volume 2 for example, and i heard there was one story where there were 3 balls. So them pulling it one more time would make some sense.

The reason I don't believe in the idea of Salem taking the powers away is for other reasons though. One of which being I don't think that's how the Maiden powers work at all.

And thematically speaking, It's been made clear that The power doesn't really help Cinder with anything, she's still insecure, weak, and in Essence a Slave under an Abusive mother figure. The Midnight moment is when she loses it all and things go back to how they were before, Cinder never left 'How they were before', Salem just Gaslit her into not realizing that.

One thing I noticed, was Cinder first takes the powers, the Glove with Salem's symbol on it proceeds to expand and both connect to the bit of Cloth on her arm and forms a mark on her back, symbolically while Cinder thinks the power is giving her Freedom, the truth is that it furthers Salems control over her.

And Salem knows what makes Cinder tick, she goes after what Cinder really wants and not just what Salem has her thinking she wants, in something that just clicked for me. Salems punishment for her in Volume 6 was leaving her to be in Exile til she proved herself, in Volume 8 she takes Mercury from her.

If Salem were to put some horrific punishment on Cinder, it wouldn't be taking her powers, it would be doing something to make Cinder feel Alone.

Edited by Snoketrope on Jan 11th 2021 at 9:22:34 AM

Bow to the Prototype
RebelFalcon ULTRANumb from ... (Private)
#69617: Jan 11th 2021 at 3:20:53 PM

I don't think what she did with Mercury had anything to do with Cinder, more just seeing she had a use for him and could use him more effectively than Cinder ever could.

Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#69618: Jan 11th 2021 at 3:35:59 PM

Its my Interpretation is that Mercuries whole 'Promotion' isn't real, He hadn't really...done anything that would make Salem think he'd be more useful then what he was already doing. And given the Brief bit with Tyrian, it's pretty clear Tyrian is still gonna be the one calling the shots and that Mercury hasn't so much been promoted as much as transferred.

And the Timing of this is after Cinder has disobeyed her, and the First episode of the Volume had Salem comment on Cinder collecting 'Assets'.

And we know because of Mercs 'New Orders' he's also being sent Extremely far away.

I feel like narratvuely, the evidence seems to point towards Mercs 'Promotion' being an excuse to get him away from Cinder.

Bow to the Prototype
RebelFalcon ULTRANumb from ... (Private)
#69619: Jan 11th 2021 at 3:42:24 PM

Feels like making mountains out molehills really. Mercury made no secret he feels like he belongs with Salem, Salem makes use of people until they're no longer useful, and the way it's framed Mercury is shown as an equal amidst the Inner Circle now, since he's kneeling directly in front of Salem with them rather than off to the side like Emerald and Neo. Plus, it doesn't look like Tyrian's calling the shots, more just that he's an insane whack job who considers Mercury a little boy trying to act big and tough, so it's just more accurately condescension. It especially doesn't make sense to keep him promoted even after Salem made clear she's gonna give Cinder the carrot now rather than the stick, and that said promotion was revealed the exact same day Cinder was told this.

Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#69620: Jan 11th 2021 at 4:15:57 PM

My issue there is how Salem so far hasn't shown any real interest in Merc. And Merc hasn't done anything special to show he would be more useful in a different position then the one he already had.

His skills and abilities all make him good at being a Goon, not an Orchestrator for her plans like the Rest of her Inner Circle(And before you bring up Hazel, we see in Volume 5 he was supposed to be a diplomat to the WF, so he was also helping Initiate Salems plans beyond Punching stuff). And even then, he lacks a semblance, wich would make him less useful in Combat then Em and Neo.

The one thing that stands out about Merc, is his motivations make him the Easiest to take Away from Cinder.

And she only does this After Cinder disobeyed her, when Mercury had been on Monstra the whole trip to Atlas.

And Salem gives her the Stick too, she tortured Cinder with the Grimm arm in a way directly compared to what the Madame would do to her.

Basically, it's not that Salem decided not to Punish her, it's that Salem punished her before giving the illusion of a Reward to keep her from getting resentful.

I should also clarify you don't have to agree with me

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RebelFalcon ULTRANumb from ... (Private)
#69621: Jan 11th 2021 at 5:02:20 PM

If she was truly trying to do that though, why just Mercury? Cinder showed more of a proclivity for using Emerald, and Salem can intimidate Emerald in spite of her loyalty for Cinder, so why not pick Emerald insted? If Salem really wanted to make Cinder feel alone, why not take both of them. Why stop at just Mercury? And that's also operating on the assumption Mercury only received the promotion after Cinder ran off, when it's entirely possible she gave it to him after making the Winged Beringhals. And of course, this is operating on an interpretation that she actually is doing this and isn't just making another enforcer. Mercury is still a skilled fighter despite his lack of a Semblance, has a background as an assassin-in-training which would make for an excellent weapon in behind the scenes killings, and has shown no loyalty towards Cinder.

Occam's Razor suggests she just promoted Mercury because she saw use in him and wanted another enforcer.

Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.
Teamkirin5 Soft Boi from You don't need to know. Since: Jun, 2019 Relationship Status: Abstaining
Soft Boi
#69622: Jan 11th 2021 at 5:25:39 PM

[up] Honestly, I think that Salem knew she could only intimidate Emerald in V6 because Cinder wasn't there to keep her (Emerald) in line or protect her. Now that Cinder is back, Salem thinks Emerald will choose Cinder over her. Mercury shows no such attachment to Cinder, and is thus, easier to pull away from her. That's why she only promoted Mercury. Emerald is too loyal to Cinder right now to leave her side.

We all have to answer to the call of fate when it beckons us, even if it is not at a moment of our choosing.
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#69623: Jan 11th 2021 at 6:24:56 PM

There's a few reasons for her to Only take Mercury. It's not Uncommon when dealing out 'Take Away' punishments, taking away only one of the things first. And while Scaring Emerald into leaving could be done, it would be way harder and it's likely she would not be as Cooperative as Merc is shown to be with it.

And while it's possible, the Narrative clearly indicates merc got Promoted after Cinder left, Mercury went there to tell them how Salem called a Meeting and while there he tells Cinder how Salem said he wasn't taking orders from her anymore, and this promotion hadn't come up beforehand. The way it's shown to us leans towards Salems promotion having been something that happened sometime after Cinder left.

And yes, Mercury is a Skilled Fighter.....but that's it, that's all he really has to offer her, Her Inner circle is made of people who could have a number of talents or ways to help, Being a skilled fighter makes it so Merc can be a Competent Stooge, wich is what his Job was, Mercury has nothing that's really Inner Circle material, especially as Merc is going on a mission with Tyrian who's already largely got brute strength Covered.

And to Quote the Page for Ocams Razor itself.

"Unfortunately this can lead to misunderstandings, at least so far as what is meant by "simplest." The actual principle is, "Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity." The best explanation is the one which makes the fewest assumptions and explains all the data. This means a highly complex answer may actually be the correct one if the alternative, deceptively simpler answer fails on one or both counts"

There's a number of things, narratively, to suggest this is a case of Salem taking away one of Cinders 'Assets', meanwhile the idea she just thought Merc would be a great addition for the Inner circle has a number of things that seem weird or don't really add up.

Edited by Snoketrope on Jan 11th 2021 at 6:33:58 AM

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unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#69624: Jan 11th 2021 at 8:09:52 PM

I think salem take away merc because she is seen cinder as damage good a this point, always a problem, she nearly break salem plan by destroying amity tower and a this point she could die and with that her maiden power would slip away, losing the advantage Salem got, meanwhile merc pretty much decide to jump ship and salem put him far away.

Also let be honest here: is clearly obvious tyrian is also there to supervise merc, any hint of disloyalty and merc would be at the point end of tyrian sting, also vacou reverse strenght so is probably she need more tough guys than subtle manipulators right now.

the question of why merc and not emerald...I think salem still know where emerald loyalty lies and is wating the right moment.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#69625: Jan 11th 2021 at 8:32:15 PM

Wyldchild somewhile ago I was lurking and you wrote a lengthy post about the Volume 7 finale that intrigued me, and I'd meant for the longest time to ask if you kept any of those bookmarked.

I try to keep my posts bookmarked, but sometimes I'm not very good at it. That always bites me in the arse later.

Do you remember if it was part of my review for the final episode, or a different post? I definitely have my reviews bookmarked.


It's so weird that the giant whale dragon has visible brains. Or what looks like visible brains.

I don't think that's supposed to be brain. Grimm are predominantly black, white and red, but many will have yellow tints somewhere on them (usually related to the eyes).

Sperm whales have that distinctive rectangular head shape because of their melon; more accurately, because of the size and shape of both their melon and spermaceti organ.

Every species of toothed whale has a melon, which varies in size depending on the species, but which often contributes to the head shape of the whale concerned.

In the sperm whale, the organ isn't called a melon, it's called 'junk'. This is a whaling term — it cannot provide sperm oil and so it was useless to the whalers. By comparison with most whales, the sperm whale's organ is massive. However, it does have the honour of possessing the largest nose in the animal kingdom, primarily due to the sheer size of the junk and spermaceti organ.

The true purpose of the melon isn't fully understood, but it's believed to be about communication and navigation. It modulates vocalisation and focusses echolocation sounds. The spermaceti organ contains spermaceti, which is basically liquid wax. Again, its purpose isn't fully understood, but it's believed to play a role in focussing echolcation or buoyancy. It was the primary source of sperm oil, however (which was more valuable than standard whale oil). And, because we're talking about the nose, I may as well add that the nasal cavities run between and around these organs and, of course, the blowhole is there, too.

This is where that yellow glowing mass is in the giant flying sperm whaleship with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers: it's predominantly the junk, but covers a lot of the spermaceti organ, as well as the nasal cavities. When we see Salem creating a 'view screen' as if dense clouds and mists are parting, I think it's this yellow mass that she's manipulating. When we see her directing the creation of the Grimm, she's effectively standing on top of the upper jaw, which is definitely where the junk would be.

So, that yellow mass tells us where Salem's 'throne room' or 'command bridge' is located. This makes a weird sort of sense because, in sperm whales, the junk contains a lot of chambers. When the we first saw the inside of the whale, I speculated that at least some of these entrances into the bridge would be related to the equivalent of the nasal cavities (as well as the oesophagus), which are wacky and wonderful in the sperm whale.

More importantly, yellow in the Grimm (where it appears) always seems linked to sensory organs (usually eyes), so it makes sense for this to be the yellow accent to this whale, given the melon and spermaceti's speculated roles in echolocation. We don't know if the Grimm whale has any form of echolocation it can use, but I won't be surprised if it does have some kind sonic attack ability or the ability to 'see' via ultrasound. Besides, sperm oil was typically yellow.

That yellow mass is therefore a giant red (yellow?) flag as to Salem's usual location inside the whale. It's also a flag to the location of the throne, which I've speculated before is the key to the fate of the whale — and its controllability. I'm commented before that the creepy 'whale song' noises in the scene inside the whale often sound like at base of that sound is Salem, humming a weird, creepy, soothing lullaby to keep the Grimm calm and controlled.

No-one's going to be killing that whale, even from inside, until that throne has been destroyed to break the connection between the whale and Salem... and, when that happens, expect the whale to go berserk.

And, on the subject of sperm oil, it does make sense for the whale to take the shape of a sperm whale when you consider the idea that regurgitating all that Grimm liquid is its equivalent of sperm whales being the source of sperm oil.

I don't really have even the beginnings of a plausible theory for how they'd become Maidens, it just seems like an obvious way to end the series. Four Maidens, four protagonists? Two of which have their moms named after the seasons? No, no connection at all!

I don't think Ruby is an eligible female. I think her silver-eyes powers mean she can't take the Maiden power. Since there are five girls in the main cast, that would mean four Maidens + one Silver-Eyed Warrior.

Although I'm suspicious that the Maiden powers will leave the world along with Ozma when he's finally freed from his task, I have speculated about the possibility of the girls becoming Maidens, but in a slightly different way. This is what I ended up with:

  • Yang as the Spring Maiden, from her mother, because Yang's character journey is about reining in impulsiveness, recklessness and thoughtlessness and becoming smarter, more discerning and more informed. That means the Maiden of Knowledge is the best fit for her — from a character development perspective.
  • Nora as the Winter Maiden was about her thematic associations with the god of thunder and lightning but, more recently, because she's struggling with her identity and clearly is looking for a more creative role in life than the pigeon-holed 'be strong and hit stuff' interpretation of herself that she currently has: the Maiden of Creativity may be relevant here.
  • Blake as the Summer Maiden because her character journey has been one long lesson in the abuse of power for personal gain, done in the name of a good cause. Some of her main angst in V7 was over the idea of standing in the way of someone who's doing the right thing in unconventional ways rather by upholding the law in as inflexible (abusive) way possible. In other words, the opposite of the problem she had with Adam. The Maiden of Destruction seems best suited to a woman who understands all too well what the abuse of destructive power can lead to.
  • Weiss: the Fall Maiden because her character journey has been about fighting for the right to make her own choices in life. If anyone has had a character journey about learning the price of having no choice and the importance of making the right choice, it's her. So, the Maiden of Choice seems like her wisdom to gain and represent.

I don't have a good way for Blake and Weiss to become Maidens right now, given that the Summer Maiden hasn't been in the show so far (that we know of) and the Fall Maiden is currently a villain, but Yang and Nora both have story links now to the current Spring and Winter Maidens that could allow for a possible transfer. Yang via her mother, and Nora because Penny's formed a guilt-bond towards her and a reboot to stop a hack could fool the Maiden power into thinking she's dead, thereby transferring to the next Maiden.

There's also the fact that there is still the Vault under Beacon Academy, and the only way to actually open it is with the Fall Maiden powers, and while Salem can't find it period, it's entirely possible Ozpin hid the Vault itself, as Cinder did comment that what she thought was the Vault under Beacon looked a lot less distinct than the Vault under Haven. And as the Vault in Atlas demonstrated, this wasn't unique to Haven, so it's entirely possible Cinder didn't find the actual Vault, but a false one.

However, the Beacon vault isn't as plain as it appears. It's a shadow castle — if you look closely, it has windows, banners, and that huge wall clock (along with a suspicious circle in the crossroads between different corridors, where Ozpin created his bubbleshield.

But there's something else the Beacon vault has that the other vaults haven't shown... extra corridors.

I still think the Beacon statue in the courtyard is the key to the Vault's entrance. Hidden in plain sight — just like Haven's entrance to its Vault. But, there's no doubt that there is something going on with the vault we did see because it is a shadow castle.... one that didn't light up when in the presence of the new Fall Maiden (unlike Haven's, which lit up as soon as the Spring Maiden arrived), hence my theories about Cinder's theft of choice in how she became the Fall Maiden has made it far more difficult to be the key (which is why Ozpin was so fussy about Pyrrha giving consent to become the new Fall Maiden).

TBH I'm not sure how much that theory really works, I think it's Cinder with the powers, but the Grimm arm connects to her as she gains it.

From what we've seen of the Maiden powers, it seems that it needs to latch onto a Soul, and Grimm, as we know, lack souls.

My theory is that the Grimm absorbed itself into Cinder's soul (hence the appearance of the tattoo on her back). The Grimm is therefore the 'glue' binding the magic to Cinder's soul. It's the Grimm that gives Cinder the ability to absorb the Maiden power at all — she still has to use the Grimm (her arm) to do it even now. Salem referred to her as a vessel: if the Grimm is the one absorbing it and permitting her to use it by virtue of latching onto her soul, then Cinder is very literally a vessel: she's just a jug of water to Salem.

The novels made it clear that the Grimm act as a sort of vacuum cleaner — hoovering up the power that it's absorbing. Gill had to sever her connection to her test Grimm before it could drain her Aura dry.

I am absolutely certain that's a clue about what's going on with that parasite Grimm.

Also, if we take cinderella as parallel them I will said wyld is wrong: Cinderella ALREADY have her "clock strike at twelve" moment and that was ruby flash her with silver eyes.

She hasn't lost her power, however.

Cinderella had three midnights (three nights of the ball where she had to leave at midnight or lose the magic). It's the third night when things go horribly wrong and she almost doesn't get away with it.

Cinder's had two strokes of midnight where she got away with it (the flashback and Volume 2). There has to be a third one coming.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Jan 13th 2021 at 7:01:08 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

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