RWBY General Discussion

Welp, time to break out the timeline shit again. I'll try and keep it simple as possible.

• When Volume 3 had ended, snowfall just began. Remnant uses a similar calendar system to ours and just before the transition to snow, there was autumn leaves falling both before and after the Fall of Beacon, meaning Volume 3 ended during the transition to Winter, and Beacon fell in the Fall.
• During Volume 5 when reading the Scroll Ilia dropped, Ghira said that Adam planned an launching the attack on Haven on "the last full moon before the beginning of the Fall semester, roughly two months from today", meaning when we see that point it's the middle of Summer. Considering Rooster Teeth is an American Company and they do use the same Calendar System, school semesters during the Fall tend to start at earliest at the end of August, at latest the middle of September.
• According to the novels, CFVY claims to have been attending Shade Academy for at least a year after the Fall and before SSSN had even shown up, but for that to be the case, by time SSSN shows up it should be Winter, yet Sun leaves with his team at the beginning of Volume 6, which is only two weeks after the Attack on Haven. Even if you wanted to argue it took a month for SSSN to get to Shade, that would mean it would be anywhere from early October to early November, which would be close to a full year, but not an actual year. And yet CFVY claims to have been attending Shade for well over a year.
• You also can't really use the snowy setting in Volume 6 to claim it is Winter because, as the map of Anima demonstrates, Argus is on the northernmost part of the continent, and that area happens to be a tundra which is more likely to see snow, especially prevalent when in Argus everyone is walking around without issues of being cold unlike on Solitas, where even with heating everyone is dressed in winter clothes, so using that as an argument would be like trying to say it's Winter despite evidence used being Alaska getting snow in May.

Edited by RebelFalcon on Sep 19th 2020 at 8:57:13 AM

Vegeta: I'm back bitches!

As you know, I complete sympathise with your feelings about the timeline mess of this show, but I believe Writers Can Not Do Math is the wrong trope.

The main reason why the timeline is such a mess is because the creators refuse to pin down the passage of time, but the writing of the main show relies heavily on multiple (sometimes miniature) examples of Time Skip and Time-Compression Montage being used within episodes, within volumes and between volumes. When you use time passage tropes in a work that insists on vague time it can create the opposite problem of having time being pinned down too much (which leads to the passage of time not making too much sense).

This situation is then combined with the pinning down of time in spin-off material (such as the novels) which almost brings us into the Depending on the Writer complication. You can't refuse to pin down time in the main work and then allow writers to pin down time in spin-off, but equally canon, material.

If I had to sum the problem up as an existing trope I'd say it's Depending on the Writer creating an inconsistent approach to handling Time Skip events. However, I feel like there might be a missing trope here for works where authors/creators don't want to establish a timeline to avoid the pitfalls of having too-defined timelines find themselves creating a set of pitfalls related to having not having one at all.

Even with a missing trope, however, I do think there's something akin to a Depending on the Writer issue towards the idea of having vague time or pinned-down time where the novels are concerned.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 19th 2020 at 3:52:56 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

So for now should Depending on the Writer be used as a placeholder until a more suitable trope is found or created?

Vegeta: I'm back bitches!

Yeah, I'd say that might be the best one... and possibly an example of how Time Skip can be used poorly?

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Okay, so apparently tropers created a new sub-page for RWBY: TheSociopath.RWBY. I'm not sure there should be a sub-page for just six examples, and I'm not sure why this fandom is so determined to make as many sub-pages for this work as possible, but... never mind. It is what it is.

I cleaned up the page and, because it's been done with the other sub-page troping (Shout-Out, Fairy Tale Motif, Ship Tease, etc.,), I removed The Sociopath examples from the character pages and pointed people to the sub-page. I merged where necessary, so no information has been lost. I also added the standard First Member warning and the spoilers off warning that's on the other trope sub-pages.

I therefore cleaned up the ShipTease.RWBY sub-page while I was at it since it's been used as a Moments page (to trope every single example people can think of anywhere in the work), which is flagrant misuse of the trope. So, I condensed all those moments down into a single paragraph entry for each ship. I actually went to ATT about this in May and added it to the general trope misuse clean-up thread back in May. I got a lot of feedback on the ATT thread but none on the general trope misuse thread. Anyway, I added the same First Member disclaimer and spoilers off warning to that page, too. But all the Ship Tease entries have been confined to that page for quite some time anyway, so I didn't do anything with that, aside from making the Sandbox.RWBY Team RWBY page consistent with the other character pages.

My question here is... where does this stop? I feel it's appropriate for the Shout-Out and Fairy Tale Motif to have all examples on the sub-page instead scattered through the character/work pages because there's just so many examples. But for a trope like The Sociopath or Ship Tease... it felt wrong when I was doing it. It feels like a standard troping situation that's not being dealt with quite right (normally, a standard trope would be placed on both the trope page and either the work or character page). So, what do people think? Should we limit the not-character page approach to just Shout-Out and Motif subpages, where there will be mountains of examples, or should we apply that to every trope sub-page the RWBY fandom creates?

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 19th 2020 at 4:05:45 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

How's this sound for RWBY: After the Fall?

• Depending on the Writer: Team CFVY make reference to their time attending Shade Academy after the Fall of Beacon, and specifically state they've been attending for over a year. However, while the main series does have a timeskip following the end of Volume 3 and going into Volume 4, it is very vague on exactly how much time has actually passed, not helped by the Four Lines, All Waiting in Volume 4 having the plotlines desychronized in terms of time. Numerous details however suggest that In-Universe, a full year hasn't passed yet, one of the most notable being Volume 5 having the attack on Haven start before the fall semester, but the Fall of Beacon happening during the fall before changing to winter.

Also, wouldn't another possible trope be Series Continuity Error?

Edited by RebelFalcon on Sep 19th 2020 at 11:15:21 AM

Vegeta: I'm back bitches!

Eh, at least they didn't put heroes on that page.

All right, guys. I've created a Sandbox.RWBY Cleanup page. If there's any other pages that might need to be on the to-do list for cleanup, it can be added there.

Also, given that Willow asked Weiss to rescue Whitley, will Weiss have to pull a Get A Hold Of Yourself Man on Whitley once she rescues him, and verbally Jacques that she wants nothing more to do with the latter if and when they meet again?

Edited by gjjones on Sep 19th 2020 at 5:00:58 AM

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.

Actually, that might be the better trope. Given that Miles and Kerry had some level of input into the novels, SCE might be more appropriate.

I've got no problem with the example write-up you've done.

The Characters.RWBY Team RWBY currently has a sandbox that is open for editing. You've linked to that, I just wanted to make that clear because I'm not sure the sandbox does. The reason the sandbox exists is because it was the mods on the Edit Locked Pages thread who created the sandbox when another troper asked. The mods said in that thread that, when the edits were done, to let them know and the page would be swapped over and the sandbox done. I've been working my way through slowly through the tropes that were on the page, but I haven't even finished Ruby's section yet. I'm not adding tropes from Volume 7. I'm just cleaning the tropes that already exist.

The NightmareFuel.RWBY went through a full clean-up on the Nightmare Fuel clean-up. I have to admit that some of the entries are still (I personally think) fairy awful, but the entries left on the page were deemed okay by the thread. If there's anything on the page you want to take to the thread, just bear that in mind.

What hasn't happened with the page is that possible examples for V7 have not been troped. The reason for that is because a number of different tropers have wanted to add examples, but they were misuse as written. Not a single troper who wanted to add an entry ever bothered to rewrite the trope when the clean-up thread asked them to do so, so nothing's been added to the page. Some of those entries would have been acceptable had they been written properly.

The fact that the fandom tropers don't seem to want to write NF examples properly isn't a good sign for the lock ever being removed from the page. So, if people do want V7 entries added to the page, please, please, please make sure you write the examples properly.

Edited to add: I corrected the link on the sandbox for the Nightmare Fuel requestions to the NF clean-up and maintenance thread. The mods decided a while back that new RWBY entries must be vetted by the NF thread first before they can be submitted to the ELP thread.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 19th 2020 at 9:50:35 AM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Okay, now how about this for RWBY: Before the Dawn:

• Series Continuity Error: Much like the prior novel, the Fall of Beacon is made reference to by several characters as taking place over a year prior to the events of the novel. According to Sun, his team had been at Shade Academy for a month since the end of the prior novel, and he makes the same claim. However, In-Universe the details on how long the timeskip between the end of Volume 3 and the start of Volume 4 actually was is vague, with details In-Universe suggesting a year hasn't passed. One of the most notable being Volume 5 having the attack on Haven start before the fall semester, but the Fall of Beacon happening during the fall before changing to winter. Even in Volume 6 when Sun admits to Blake he's taking his team to Shade, its said only two weeks had passed between then and the end of Volume 5, meaning winter still hadn't come yet and a full year hasn't passed.

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EDIT: I still need to stay off tumblr, but here's something interesting I found after someone analyzed the Amity Arena bio of Fiona and compared it with May's. Part 1, Part 2, Part 3. I normally avoid tumblr RWBY analyzers, but they do some good analysis for the Happy Huntresses and Marrow, including analyzing how the specific breed of dog Marrow likely is factors into his character, and how his color palette seems out of place with the Ace Ops uniform.

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EDIT 2: Glynda is getting sick of your shit Oz

Edited by RebelFalcon on Sep 20th 2020 at 4:09:15 AM

Vegeta: I'm back bitches!

Those are some interesting analysis. I admit I never read that much into the amnity bio but it's quite interesting. Tumblr can be hit or miss, but when it hits, they always find something that I was never able to realize.

The Final Name

Entry looks fine.

I have to say that I do like that analysis of Fiona and May's card's. It's actually a really good example of how people can be racist without using any of the racist 'buzzwords'. It's like people who insult and bully, but in really a really pleasant, reasonable tone and language. How can it possibly be an '-ism' if they're so calm, so polite, and not spewing any hateful, nasty, obvious words?

As the posts indicate, this is how propaganda works.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 20th 2020 at 12:22:37 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Between a guy who bring bad luck and another who is so hyperfocus that is is damn semblance, Ozpin really have weirdest pick for alies.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

At this point Oz probably takes who ever he can get.

‘My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’

Just wait till it turns out that Theo's Semblance is basically a glorified aggro for Grimm and Leo's Semblance was why he was a little bitch.

Vegeta: I'm back bitches!

Yeah the tumblr analisis was good(living aside the whole "how DARE YOU" tone tumblr always have), you can see a sort of "you could be so good with us"

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

First and foremost, that comic absolutely killed me. It's perfect.

Ah, that tumblr conversation which I'm pretty sure I got involved with somewhere. I know at last one of those posts ended up across my feed and I responded. Basically, just how interesting the subtle in-universe stuff is concerning the biases of those folks writing the entries — Harriet is a (cough)bitch(cough), Elm clearly has a fan that is salty she isn't #1 operative, Clover is Mr. Subtle as a Brick Idol Cop, Marrow + Fiona + Neon all get fairly racist-but-not-racist entries, and Ironwood is THE HERO OF OUR TIME OUR UNAPPRECIATED LEADER.

I've legit been wondering about other folks' Semblances, and I think Theodore having some kind of hyping ability would suit him I think. His entire thing is that he's the popular Headmaster that holds the kingdom together.

I've gone ahead and added entries to the Anima page for the Grimm Campaign. If anyone else has been following it, feel free to expand/amend what I've started.

Between Fairy Tales and Grimm Campaign, I think I've done more trope adding in the past two weeks than in the past two years. I tend to be a cleaner rather than a troper.

I'm worn out now!

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 20th 2020 at 3:16:22 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Great job, Wyld! You are doing the lord's work!

So I realized the thing we desperately need, once things move from Atlas to Vacuo.

Atlas was very Cyberpunk with the contrast of corporate/military wealth, sleek technology contrasting with the industrial slums of Mantle.

Vacuo had better have at least some Mad Max shout-outs, or it's an enormous missed opportunity. I think it's such an instantly recognizable franchise in terms of a post-apoc desert punk kind of world. Give us ugly sand-battered old trucks, crazy Desert People fashion, and everyone living day to day armed to the teeth and ready to fight whatever desert monstrosity comes acalling.

The novels seem to have gone beyond Desert Punk. On the surface it looks like Desert Punk with Solar Punk elements, but my theory is that it's actually the other way around: a Solar Punk setting masquerading as Desert Punk... which is potentially more interesting (and fits in with my theory about the Vault of the Summer Maiden possibly being a lesson/warning about the consequences of the destructive power humanity is capable of wielding).

However, it would indeed be a missed opportunity if there were no Mad Max references at all.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 20th 2020 at 3:36:20 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Yeah.

I think I mostly just want to see crazy survivalist desert people in crazy outfits riding through the desert.

I mean I guess we could in theory say there already was one, with there being a Fight Club? Not quite Thunderdome, but it's a start.

I've got another proposal: should we create a short-term cleanup forum project to remove any potential negativity and complaints in the RWBY pages if it is possible?

Edited by gjjones on Sep 21st 2020 at 5:24:29 AM

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.

Oh, I absolutely want to see that. If the novels have done one thing well, it's bringing the Vacuo setting alive. I really want to see it in action. I'm concerned that we won't see the heroes struggling on screen with the environment the way the characters do in the books, and I'll feel a bit cheated if we don't. We only had one brief reference to the dangers of the cold environment in Volume 7, and only to set-up the heating grid being switched off in Mantle. It didn't feel like Solitas was a permanently freezing polar environment. It just felt like Mantle was going through winter.

There's an existing clean-up thread in Long-Term Projects for doing that. I'd suggest using that initially, the way we used the Nightmare Fuel clean-up thread to clean-up the NF page. I generally find the more people who can input into a clean-up project, the better off everyone is. If the clean-up thread is too unresponsive or we start overwhelming them with too much RWBY, then perhaps we can try a separate clean-up. I'm a bit leery of duplicating an already-existing clean-up thread without a good reason to do so.

• Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki
• Removing Gushing from the Wiki

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 21st 2020 at 11:27:47 AM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Can you said the novel, the fairy tell book and the roleplay is finally bringing more of the setting? because it have being a complain of the game and the manga.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

Yeah, I would definitely say so.

They are definitely fantastic additions that are providing larger world-building and glimpses outside of the main story. I've said a few times that I really hope to see more novels in the future, hopefully providing a deeper glimpse of the other kingdoms and schools. I'd love a novel set in Atlas prior to Volume 7, perhaps following Team FNKI to give us an insider's view of things in the kingdom. Maybe also one set at Haven before the main series, especially since I think it's likely that Cinder's team had to have spent some time there as students to establish their cover.