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RebelFalcon ULTRANumb from ... (Private)
#64001: Mar 13th 2020 at 9:44:36 PM

[up]Personally, I feel like the Crown has the ability of influence. If has the power to make a persons choice for them.

We pretty much know that Oz was the Warrior King of Vale, and the most obvious things to note about him was that he still had The Long Memory and likely wielded the Sword of Destruction during the Vacuo Campaign, he was likely wearing the Crown of Choice while acting as king. The Academies and Vaults hadn't existed yet, so he had to keep the Relics somewhere, and what better place to keep the two most dangerous ones than directly on him.

There's also the fact that after the Vacuo campaign, the other Kingdom leaders began acting... odd for lack of a better term.

Qrow (Narrating): The king of Vale personally led his army into battle alongside the soldiers of Vacuo and decimated the enemy forces. Crown atop his head and armed only with a sword and his scepter, he laid waste to countless men. As the sand was soaked red with blood, the Grimm came in droves. It was the single deadliest battle of the war, and legends of the greatness and terror of the Warrior King were born that day. Historians will tell you that most of these stories are nothing but grandiose hyperbole. Unusually violent weather conditions, combined with Mantle's unfamiliarity with desert combat, are likely what led to such a high death count. But whatever the reasoning, everyone bowed to the king of Vale by the time it was over. The Great War had ended. The world was ready to live under the rule of Vale. But the king refused.
Now, the obvious reasoning behind this is that they were cowed by his feat of strength and likely afraid of him, since even Vacuo, his ally was also bowing. But if Ozma had the ability to just make them do what he wanted, why didn't he just order them to agree to his plan? Cause it would be too suspicious. Salem was watching obviously, and he couldn't make things too obvious to her. So he instead called for a conference on the island of Vytal.
Qrow (Narrating): The leaders of the four Kingdoms met on the island of Vytal, and it was there that they worked together to form a treaty and establish the future of Remnant. Territories were redistributed, slavery was abolished, governments were restructured, and the Warrior King, the last king Vale would ever have, founded the Huntsman Academies and placed his most trusted followers in command of each Kingdom's school.
This is where the choice aspect of the Crown comes into play. It was said that each Relic embodies the concept they are named after:
Qrow: See, the four gifts to mankind - knowledge, creation, destruction and choice - aren't just metaphorical. Each of them exists in a physical form, left behind by the gods before they abandoned Remnant, and each of them is extraordinarily powerful.
The God of Light: Creation, destruction, choice, and knowledge were the ideals upon which humanity was made. Now I leave them behind with the hope that you will learn to remake yourselves.
And so far each Relic that has had its ability explained has followed that idea, but also has a built in limit so that it can't be exploited:
  • The Lamp of Knowledge has the ability to answer any question pertaining to the past and the present, but not of the future, as it cannot know what hasn't occurred. It however can only answer three questions every century.
  • The Staff of Knowledge has the ability to create an endless source of energy to power whatever it is used on, allowing the kingdom of Atlas to stay afloat. It however can only be used as a Perpetual Motion Machine for one thing at a time.
So theoretically, the Crown of Choice embodies the idea to choose, but has a limit.

So what can it do?

Well, I think we already got our answer when Pyrrha met the Ozluminati and was chosen to be the Fall Maiden: The Illusion of Choice.
Jaune: So you forced it on Pyrrha.
Qrow: We didn't force anything. We explained the situation and gave her the choice, and she chose.
  • Regardless of what Qrow told the others, Pyrrha did not make the choice to become the Fall Maiden on her own. She was presented with the illusion of choice. They knew how she behaved, knew how she'd react to being told the circumstances, and specifically orchestrated the meeting so that they'd get her to act in the way they wanted her to. They told her she had a choice, when the very fact they picked her meant she likely never had a choice, otherwise they wouldn't have picked her and told her so much. Pyrrha wouldn't have refused knowing that they were counting on her and that doing this was very important to not just Vale, but all of Remnant, and they knew this. So she never truly had a choice.
  • Now note how the other kingdoms so readily agreed with the Warrior King's ideas while at Vytal. Ozma specifically came up with that plan as a means of hiding the Relics from Salem. Problem is, had any of the other Kingdom's leaders not agreed to the academies or let him put his followers there as the first Headmasters, his plan wouldn't work as much.
    Qrow: When Ozpin's predecessor founded the schools, he built them around the Relics to act as a fortress. Not only would they be easier to defend, but they would constantly be surrounded by trained warriors. The hope was that hiding them would keep mankind from using them against itself... and, of course, keeping them out of her reach.
So, here's what I think the Crown of Choice does: it's effectively a charisma modifier. It allows the wearer to present their ideas to others as if they had a choice, when really, they never did. It effectively acts as the little voice in the back of your mind telling you to agree to something, meaning they'll think they are making the choice, when its really the wearer of the crown manipulating them. As for a built in limitation? The influence isn't absolute. A person with enough willpower would be able to resist the power of the crown, possibly entirely, possibly partially. After all, the headmasters after the ones the Warrior King picked aren't ones he picked, they're ones elected by the council that have to be brought in to the Ozluminati and made aware of whats going on, such was the case with Ironwood.
Ironwood: I'm here because this is what was necessary.
Qrow: You're here because Ozpin wanted you here! He made you a part of this inner circle and opened your eyes to the real fight that's in front of us!
So what's clear is that the crown doesn't force people to abide by a declaration or strip them of their ability to choose, so its more than likely it "stacks the deck" so to speak. It imparts the Illusion of Choice onto others.

Edited by RebelFalcon on Mar 14th 2020 at 2:07:34 PM

Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.
Psyga315 Since: Jan, 2001
#64002: Mar 13th 2020 at 10:37:03 PM

Though we've already had our Pyrrha-ish Sacrificial Lion situation, what with Clover dying.

No. Not really.

Clover's a Sacrificial Lamb. Pyrrha had thrice the amount of screen time he got. A lion's share, if you were to put it.

He's more like Vernal or Lionheart. Introduced in the same season he's killed off.

Edited by Psyga315 on Mar 13th 2020 at 10:39:55 AM

harostar Since: Feb, 2010
#64003: Mar 13th 2020 at 11:44:22 PM

[up] What I mean is that Volume 3 and Pyrrha's death in particular, are the last time they lost someone in the fight against Salem.

Vernal was an enemy, basically there as a decoy for Raven. No one else had any connection to her.

Lionheart was a traitor that had sold them out to Salem and aided her in numerous ways.

We won't know for sure which category he ultimately falls into, but it seems like Clover's death will have an impact. How long-term it will be is hard to say, but at the least it will be a major issue for Atlas next volume. The Ace-Ops lose their leader, Qrow has to deal with the fall-out of the murder and his own grief, and Ironwood at the very least lost one of his most trusted subordinates — if not a close friend. At least two plot threads are being set up for next volume, in terms of leaderless Ace-Ops and Qrow vs Ironwood.

Compare Lionheart's death basically getting a single mention by Qrow in his letter to Ironwood.

Edited by harostar on Mar 13th 2020 at 2:46:02 PM

Psyga315 Since: Jan, 2001
#64004: Mar 14th 2020 at 12:01:13 AM

Also, I should mention this:

No. I don't want the group to abandon Mantle/Atlas, since that would be stupid.

I only said that they might go to Vacuo as a concern I have.

Ryno_v Since: Dec, 2017
#64005: Mar 14th 2020 at 8:12:49 AM

RWBY: World of Remnant, Episode 6: Huntsman

harostar Since: Feb, 2010
#64006: Mar 14th 2020 at 2:21:36 PM

Random thought occurred to me:

wild mass guessCould becoming a Maiden have been the whole point of the Penny project? wild mass guess

Ironwood focused on that project to create a "guardian" or "protector" with a soul. In Volume 3, Ozpin uses the same terminology when discussing the Fall Maiden — Pyrrha as their new "guardian" or "protector".

Could the whole purpose have been, in the long run, to have dealt with the Inheritance issue through creating an artificial being that could host the Maiden powers? One that is essentially immortal, that won't grow old and is very difficult to truly kill?

Obviously, Ironwood had been grooming Winter her whole career to be the next Maiden. It doesn't seem like he thought Penny was capable of becoming the Maiden. But could that have been the long-term goal, with Atlas experimenting with a Robot with a Soul and Aura transfer technology.

Edited by harostar on Mar 14th 2020 at 5:24:01 AM

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#64007: Mar 14th 2020 at 2:40:35 PM

People have been theorizing that for a long time. Or, if not the point of the project (my guess is Pietro just wanted a daughter), then at least it's the reason Ironwood brought her to Vale.

As for Winter, since there are multiple Maidens, having multiple potentials would be a good idea. I'm not sure how long Ironwood was really grooming her—or indeed how long he even had Frea in his custody—but I could see him doing both at the same time. The semi-immortal superpowered robot gets the riskier procedure that will only get her half the Maiden's power (since Cinder still had the rest at that point), while the extremely loyal human gets the more normal transfer and the full power.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#64008: Mar 14th 2020 at 5:10:59 PM

So, bringing up an old topic that never really got resolved from a few weeks back. How exactly should we categorized Penny and Pietro on the character pages? Cause Penny seems to have been bumped up to Major Character status now that she's with the group, and Pietro is at least Supporting Character status.

  • Should we wait till they leave Atlas to see if they stick around, and then decide at that time?
  • Should they be moved to the RWBY: Friends and Allies page and only be moved back should something happen?
  • Should they be listed on the page, but only as redirects to their current location until their positions are solidified? If this option, I recommend the same be done for Sun due to him, for all intents and purposes, being a Main Character himself but just Put on a Bus, as he's had a lasting presence in the first five volumes, and was essentially the deuteragonist of Blake's storyline in the Haven Saga.

At the moment, Penny and Pietro have been Atlas-specific characters and the story has so far given us no sign that they're going to be anything other than Atlas-specific characters. Penny was waltzing around with the main characters in Volume 1, too. That didn't change the fact that she's remained a location-specific character. So far, there's absolutely no reason to treat her any differently to Glynda. So, in short:

  • Yes. Wait for the end of the Atlas Arc to see what the story intends for them.
  • Moving them in anticipation of what the future holds is no different to Speculative Troping.
  • No redirects are necessary because Penny and Pietro have no reason to be on the page. Yet.

Regarding Sun:

He was originally on that page but, when the character pages were revamped, the consensus was to move him back to his team on the Anima page. A redirect was put on the Vacuo page to accommodate the novel based on the consensus that Team SSSN and Team CFVY should not be moved from the Vale and Anima pages until the main show tells us they're in Vacuo.

When he was originally on the page, the page was split into two sections (those who know the truth and those who don't). He was in the 'don't' section. When he was removed from the page, the page was revamped into a 'know the truth only' page, which means Sun no longer fits on the page.

What the page has always been is a page for location-independent characters who are travelling with the plot. 'Salem's Faction' conveniently covers a single page. 'Ozpin's Faction' is more problematic because it's made up of location-specific characters who fade in and out of the plot depending on what location the plot is visiting, while also being made up of location-independent characters (the main cast) who are travelling with the plot. There are so many main cast that they cover three pages instead of one (Team RWBY, Team JNPR, Ozpin, Oscar and Qrow).

For the record, I expect the plot to drop Maria by the end of the Atlas Arc, too (if she even survives that long). However, I wouldn't recommend removing her from the Friends and Allies page because that would also be speculative troping. (Besides, there may even be an argument for leaving her on that page even if she survives and remains in Atlas when the plot moves on — it would depend entirely on the circumstances of her being written out of the plot).

Edited by Wyldchyld on Mar 14th 2020 at 12:23:53 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
RebelFalcon ULTRANumb from ... (Private)
#64009: Mar 14th 2020 at 5:36:17 PM

[up]

  • 1. Doesn't that spread the main characters across four pages then? Cause he pretty much is a main character, just Put on a Bus.
  • 2. Don't know why you suspect she'll be staying in Atlas. She's the only way they have to leave Solitas. Doesn't seem like anyone else can fly a Manta, and they will have to eventually leave Solitas, so unless Raven suddenly pops up and gives them a portal to Patch where Tai is, they're gonna need someone to fly them out of there.

Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#64010: Mar 14th 2020 at 6:17:49 PM

@Captain: Weiss' plotline is nowhere near complete. Her entire plotline is trying to save her family's name, not just displace Jacques. Whitley is now the next aspect, as its made clear during her talk with Willow that Weiss also has to save him from what Jacques has done to him.

I'm expecting Whitley to be part of the Volume 8 storyline. Volume 7 felt like the Mantle Sub-Arc. Volume 8 will probably be the Atlas Sub-Arc. Volume 9 will probably be mop-up and preparation for the next journey.

So, Whitley fed into V7 as a set up for later only as a peripheral to the Mantle plot. Once the Atlas plot kicks in, he'll be more affected. For the city to be in a dire threat, Weiss should be concerned for the safety of her family. I also expect to see Klein crop up — I'm expecting him to hide the heroes from Ironwood as per the Seven Dwarfs hiding Snow White from the evil Queen.

I wonder if a siege is in the cards. Salem is not the type to engage in direct action, but she was already assed to arrive to Atlas personally on top of Monstro. Giving Ironwood any time to mount defenses would just be arrogant. We've confirmed that she is, since this is the first time she actually left her island to deal with something herself, but if she's just going to be hanging out on her Monstromobile in the background, then why even bother coming? Ironwood unraveled himself perfectly even without her presence there.

That's one of the reasons why I'm expecting it to be revealed that the staff isn't in the chamber, the city needs to be grounded and a shield extended around the city. That allows for a siege situation to unfold without it being a waste of time for Salem to have shown up on her giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers... and then do nothing when she could crush the kingdom within the first ten minutes of her arrival.

That said, I am also expecting to see Atlas have its own powerful defences, which will probably be explored first. It already has a Hard Light shield surrounding the city of Atlas — we've seen the pylons on the outer rim of the city. I also speculated at the start of the volume, when we first saw Atlas, that the academy's design looked like its pillars may potentially have the ability to double as huge energy guns — if everything is also a gun, then why not the school itself?

With Atlas shielding in full effect, the main (and secret) way back into the city will be through the hole at the bottom of the floating rock that Oscar created when he fell from the Vault's ledge.

As for Salem hesitating, ignoring potential defences for a moment, the only reason I can see for her hesitating is because she'd be trying to locate Ozpin. Her promise to him was effectively to make him watch as she destroyed everything he'd ever valued, and Atlas is supposed to symbolise an aspiration the whole of Remnant looks up to. So, she wouldn't arbitrarily destroy Atlas just because she can — she'd make sure Ozpin was in a position to watch her do it and then she'd savour it for maximum effect. So, she has to find him first, which may be one of the reasons Oscar is starting V8 separated from everyone else. After all, her decision to come in person was triggered by the news that Ozpin had already reincarnated and was already leading the group to Atlas with the Relic of Knowledge. So, Ozpin is a large part of the reason why she decided to travel to Atlas in person.

She has already set up the fact that she feels she doesn't have to rush things by reminding the audience (via her threat to Ironwood) that she has all the time in the world to do whatever she wants at whatever speed she wants because she's immortal. So, she doesn't have to crush the kingdom in the first two minutes just because she can. She functions on a completely different timescale to everyone else bar Ozma.

The other thing to bear in mind is that we don't know for certain that the Relic of Creation really can do only one thing at a time. Ironwood knows that because that's what Ozma told him. But Oz also stated all three wishes of the Relic of Knowledge had been used up. So, what if he was lying (or hiding something) about the Staff's capabilities, too?

1. Doesn't that spread the main characters across four pages then? Cause he pretty much is a main character, just Put on a Bus.

He?

2. Don't know why you suspect she'll be staying in Atlas. She's the only way they have to leave Solitas. Doesn't seem like anyone else can fly a Manta, and they will have to eventually leave Solitas, so unless Raven suddenly pops up and gives them a portal to Patch where Tai is, they're gonna need someone to fly them out of there.

We know Ozpin can fly one. He guided Oscar through a crash landing. We also don't know if Qrow can fly one. He always took the second pilot seat to Maria, but never did any piloting. That turns Qrow into a question mark.

Either way, if they're stuck for a pilot, I'm fairly confident that Oscar can step into the role with help from Ozpin. He's pretty much been set up for that already.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Mar 14th 2020 at 1:19:54 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
RebelFalcon ULTRANumb from ... (Private)
#64011: Mar 14th 2020 at 7:51:37 PM

[up]

  • 1. He is referring to Sun. He's had an active presence in the story up until he was Put on a Bus, was effectively Blake's deuteragonist during her subplot, and was presented as being an important character throughout his tenure on the show.
  • 2.
    • Even if Ozpin could talk Oscar through it, there's a big difference between flying something and causing a controlled crash. And I don't see how that one moment is setup for Oscar to be their pilot going forward.
    • Plus, Maria has barely taught Ruby anything about the SEW yet, so it doesn't seem like the Mentor Occupational Hazard should apply yet. And of course, she was largely Out of Focus in Volume 7, so unless they suddenly give her a massive amount of focus in Volume 8, I can't really see her dying yet.
    • I doubt Qrow could fly one. The entire plan at Argus required getting Maria onto the Manta in Weiss' suitcase so she can pilot it while Weiss takes out the Nubbucks. If Qrow could have flew it, then why didn't they just have him shift into bird form and hide in the bag instead, since it wouldn't be as suspiciously heavy, and he'd be more believable a pilot in the event they needed to speak on the radio. One of the reasons their attempt to pretend to be the pilots failed was because, as one of the soldiers put it: "Jargon was fine, but our pilots aren't elderly women."

Edited by RebelFalcon on Mar 14th 2020 at 10:53:08 AM

Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.
Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#64012: Mar 14th 2020 at 8:23:00 PM

I imagine an argument against Qrow flying would be that until Volume 7 he was always drunk.

Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#64013: Mar 14th 2020 at 8:24:05 PM

[up] "Jargon was fine, but our pilots aren't usually this drunk." tongue

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?
RebelFalcon ULTRANumb from ... (Private)
#64014: Mar 14th 2020 at 11:03:51 PM

A random thought just occurred to me, and I'm not sure if its brought up here before. We know for a fact that during the Great War, Vale was initially fighting Mantle and Mistral on their own, as Vacuo was neutral at that time. Until at least Mantle tried pressuring them into joining them, which is when Vacuo effectively threw their lot in with Vale. We also know that it was the Vacuo Campaign that effectively ended the war, and we have a pretty good idea that Ozma as the Warrior King was wielding the Sword of Destruction during it. Well, something stood out to me while rereading my idea for the Crown of Choice.

Qrow (narrating): The king of Vale personally led his army into battle alongside the soldiers of Vacuo and decimated the enemy forces. Crown atop his head and armed only with a sword and his scepter, he laid waste to countless men. As the sand was soaked red with blood, the Grimm came in droves. It was the single deadliest battle of the war, and legends of the greatness and terror of the Warrior King were born that day. Historians will tell you that most of these stories are nothing but grandiose hyperbole. Unusually violent weather conditions, combined with Mantle's unfamiliarity with desert combat, are likely what led to such a high death count. But whatever the reasoning, everyone bowed to the king of Vale by the time it was over.
And, well, who do we know has the ability to control the elements? And note that the leading general for Vacuo was represented by a female faunus. I think its entirely possible that the leader of Vacuo at the time was one of the Maidens. It would certainly explain why Ozma would rush to defend Vacuo and end the conflict there, he probably didn't want to put one of the Maidens in too much danger or draw the attention of Salem. The general mayhem and blood stained desert in Vacuo came not just from the Sword of Destruction, but from a Maiden going full throttle. It would also explain how Ozma was able to attune each Vault to one of the Maidens as a lock, he had either been searching for them already or already found some of them during the War, and the Vytal Treaty was because he finally knew he needed to enact his plan know that he knew the location of all four.

Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#64015: Mar 15th 2020 at 6:17:41 AM

Even if Ozpin could talk Oscar through it, there's a big difference between flying something and causing a controlled crash. And I don't see how that one moment is setup for Oscar to be their pilot going forward.

Don't forget that Ozpin can assume direct control of Oscar.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Mar 15th 2020 at 10:01:15 AM

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#64016: Mar 15th 2020 at 8:25:06 AM

1. He is referring to Sun. He's had an active presence in the story up until he was Put on a Bus, was effectively Blake's deuteragonist during her subplot, and was presented as being an important character throughout his tenure on the show.

I thought you meant Sun, but I wasn't sure. But, no, he's not a main character and never has been. He's been supporting character, who has focus for as long as the plot needs him to have focus, and then (like all the other supporting characters) is tucked back into the drawer when the plot needs to move on.

Even if Ozpin could talk Oscar through it, there's a big difference between flying something and causing a controlled crash. And I don't see how that one moment is setup for Oscar to be their pilot going forward.

Ozpin didn't talk Oscar through the crash landing. He 'guided' Oscar. So, Ozpin neither took control of him nor talked him through it. He's shown that he can guide Oscar's actions without assuming full control — and that ability to 'guide' is the set-up I'm talking about (for a lot of things, not simply that one scenario).

That said, I don't believe Oscar's going to be their go-to pilot in the future. All I said was that he's been set up to be capable of it if push comes to shove.

I'm expecting Qrow to be their go-to pilot in the future.

I really don't see any role for Maria as a permanent travelling companion. She had her role in giving Ruby the information she was missing about how to consciously trigger her powers. She's all but stated that's as much as she can do because the rest is about Ruby just practising activating the power — but that the only way to 'practice' is to be in actual battle. So, she's all but stated that she has no significant further use to Ruby's development of the silver eyes power.

The fact she hasn't had a prominent role in Volume 7 should be a good sign that she's on her way out of the plot. Whether she lives or dies, I do not believe she will continue with the main characters when the plot starts travelling to a new location.

But, yes, I won't be surprised if she dies. If she does, I expect it to be part of a build-up towards the 'breaking moment' the fandom's spent years expecting Ruby's storyline to be leading to. Given her connection to Pietro, and the fact that we now have a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers, there are a number of ways in which that could happen.

Regarding the Cordovin plotline, Qrow was mostly resistent to helping the kids initially, and he still in the middle of his alcoholic breakdown. He didn't fully come on board with the plan until after the Weiss/Maria incident, when he was loitering at the cliff edge complaining about his misfortune affecting everyone, requiring one of Ruby's bad speeches to fix. Besides, his shapechanging ability was more useful to the group than any piloting skills, and piloting was pretty much the only way to make Maria useful to the situation (beyond her acting as one of the primary triggers for Cordovin's temper, that is). Give Qrow the pilot's role and there's no point in Maria being involved at all.

And, well, who do we know has the ability to control the elements? And note that the leading general for Vacuo was represented by a female faunus. I think its entirely possible that the leader of Vacuo at the time was one of the Maidens.

I'm of the opinion that he did have most, or even all, of the Maidens on his side in the war, which would explain why the chambers (which were probably created along with the schools, and so after the war ended) used the Maidens as keys. It makes sense for the four Maidens to have been on his side when he made that choice.

I've been aware of that comment for a long time, but I've been in two minds as to whether it was a Maiden who created the unusual weather or whether it was Ozma himself. I tend to lean towards it being one of those rare occasions when Ozma unleashed his magic, but that's because I think Ozma hates using his magic due to the devastation it's capable of achieving — and therefore the Great War's end ranks right up there with the deaths of his daughters for reasons why he should always withhold his powers. It's more interesting to me than 'Maiden did it'.

But, yes, I do expect all four Maidens to have been on his side at that moment and I do think it's possible Vacuo's leader could have been a Maiden.

One thing to bear in mind, however, is that Vacuo was also the location of the largest Dust deposits ever found on the planet, which another reason for everyone converging there, and one of the reasons for why the original paradise had been destroyed by human activity even before the war.

It's also one of the reasons why I think it's a good candidate for being the location of the Domain of Light (albeit, looking very ruined and very unlike its original appearance).

Edited by Wyldchyld on Mar 15th 2020 at 4:51:03 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Dacool1here Since: Oct, 2017
#64017: Mar 15th 2020 at 9:26:46 AM

I come back to this thread just to look at Wyldchyld's signature.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers, it's just not worth reading.

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#64018: Mar 15th 2020 at 9:46:55 AM

This is entirely true! If my posts don't include a single reference to a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers, there's absolutely no point reading my post at all!

Mind you, it's entirely possible that my posts aren't worth reading anyway. [lol]

Edited by Wyldchyld on Mar 15th 2020 at 4:52:35 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Dacool1here Since: Oct, 2017
#64019: Mar 15th 2020 at 10:52:34 AM

[up] No, your posts are worth reading, even if they don't have a single reference to a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers.

That being said... I think since I'm the one who talked about a single reference to a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers, I should be the one to steer the thread back on track.

So... RWBY stuff. Or somethin'.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#64020: Mar 15th 2020 at 11:04:23 AM

One think here: what tale or story will be other relic based? the lamb is a dijnn lamp just it grant knowledge instead of wishes and is wyld is right, the sword is based in excalibur and caliburn(which probably will also have an spirit: the lady of the lake, which in my theory would mean the king of vale was king arthur, making Salem morgouse and probably).

So the question would be, in what is based the crown, the specter and the staff?.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
STRX Since: Jul, 2013
#64021: Mar 15th 2020 at 11:40:26 AM

I miss Sun but on the bright side, he'll be training his team, and after their performance at the Vytal Festival plus his experiences with Blake, they'll probably be a bit more effective next time we see them.

RebelFalcon ULTRANumb from ... (Private)
#64022: Mar 15th 2020 at 11:59:59 AM

But, no, he's not a main character and never has been. He's been supporting character, who has focus for as long as the plot needs him to have focus, and then (like all the other supporting characters) is tucked back into the drawer when the plot needs to move on.
Except he'd been in the limelight for five volumes, the longest of any character short of the Main Characters. So unless you're saying he can still be only supporting despite sharing the limelight Blake ever since he was introduced, I don't see how he isn't a main character. Plus of course the fact he is one of the main characters of Before the Dawn, the sequel to RWBY: After the Fall that turned CFVY into Ascended Extra characters.
Ozpin didn't talk Oscar through the crash landing. He 'guided' Oscar. So, Ozpin neither took control of him nor talked him through it. He's shown that he can guide Oscar's actions without assuming full control — and that ability to 'guide' is the set-up I'm talking about
Typically to phrase something as "guiding" in regards to something like piloting means to instruct them or talk them through it. So, the way Oscar phrased it, as Ozpin "guiding" him then immediately going back to his self-imposed exile, could just mean "Ozpin came out, told me how to crash land the ship, then left again".
I really don't see any role for Maria as a permanent travelling companion. She had her role in giving Ruby the information she was missing about how to consciously trigger her powers. She's all but stated that's as much as she can do because the rest is about Ruby just practising activating the power — but that the only way to 'practice' is to be in actual battle. So, she's all but stated that she has no significant further use to Ruby's development of the silver eyes power.
  • 1. As proven by the fight with the Leviathan, the Siege of Mantle, Salem talking to her, and meeting Cinder again, Ruby still has little to no control over her abilities. Maria can still give her more advice on ways to clear her mind more easily similar to the state of "Emptiness" in Japanese media.
    • She panicked and couldn't freeze the Leviathan, requiring her invocation of Jinn to freeze time and give her the chance to use them, and even that only encased the Leviathan in a thin shell it began to free itself from, and would have done so if not for Cordovin using the Colossus to kill it.
    • She couldn't get herself to focus due to all the panic going on in Mantle, requiring her to forgo their use and find another way to kill the Megaliath.
    • Salem just telling her about Summer gave her a mini-breakdown and nearly set her eyes off in the process.
    • Just seeing Cinder was enough to get her eyes to trigger, forcing Cinder to flee. This being highly reminiscent to when she saw Jaune recklessly charging her at the Battle of Haven, which set her eyes off then too thinking it would be a repeat of Pyrrha's death.
  • 2. She can offer training outside of the Silver Eyes to the group. She was the Grimm Reaper after all, and could easily be the traditional The Mentor to them by teaching them how to further improve and telling them about the different enemies she fought like Tock. Besides, for the Mentor Occupational Hazard to work, Maria has to be a traditional mentor. Qrow has been a mentor to Ruby long enough for it to apply. Maria hasn't. They had one session together, and all that amounted to was setting up the basis of what to do.
The fact she hasn't had a prominent role in Volume 7 should be a good sign that she's on her way out of the plot. Whether she lives or dies, I do not believe she will continue with the main characters when the plot starts travelling to a new location.
If a character being Out of Focus was enough to justify writing them out of the show, then Yang, Nora, and Ren should have all been left behind after the Fall of Beacon, considering none of them had focus at all during the Vale Saga.

Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.
Psyga315 Since: Jan, 2001
#64023: Mar 15th 2020 at 12:24:32 PM

Why don't we just seperate the characters by Cast Herd instead of trying to single out who's more important.

sdsaa Since: Jan, 2019
#64024: Mar 15th 2020 at 12:40:30 PM

"Oscar's statement that Ironwood is just as dangerous as Salem is more telling than you realize if you watched "The Lost Fable", Salem posed as a goddess to win followers, and began a policy of killing those who did not agree. Even in the present era, she maintains a definite "My way or the highway", casting out Cinder who botched the Haven attack by her obsession with Ruby, and makes it quite clear to her remaining followers that any deviations from her designs will not be tolerated. Ironwood, who often insists on grand displays of military might, acts friendly and inviting, but will turn on people when they don't do what he wants; in Volume 2, he has the council dispose Ozpin in order to gain full control of the Vytal Festival's security because Oz disagreed with the presence of his fleet. When the heroes refuse to follow his orders in Volume 7, he orders their arrests" he ordered their arrests because they would have tried to stop him which they made clear ruby calling the team for help made it so he had to ask for their arrests because they would have helped them (ironwood only went to the council after the breach happened he felt that it was ozpins mistake to not do what he thought he thought his idea of protecting the people was better

"The Ace Ops treat their friends either like work tools or obstacles and care more about what their boss says than protecting their own people." we were never shown that the ace ops werent friends with each other and the claim that they care more about ironwoods orders is wrong the claim that they are blindly following orders is wrong

Yang: 'they're just foLloWiNg oRdErS nOW' YANG WHAT DO YOU THINK YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH RUBY IS - oh wait, that's right, you're not following her orders bc your team is actually just a hivemind that agrees unquestioningly.

"why is it inspiring for Yang to follow Ruby’s judgement, but it’s a major issue for Elm to follow Ironwood’s? Both teams have trust in their leaders and both prioritize that trust over their own feelings. See: Yang obeying Ruby not to tell Ironwood the the Salem secrets even though she was iffy about that, same with Oscar keeping it quiet / Marrow fighting Team RWBY even though he was iffy about that, same with Clover arresting Qrow. They’re all literally coming from the same place of, “I’ve known this person long enough and been through enough with them to make hard decisions on their say-so alone” which completely undermines the “Team RWBY are heroes and the Ace Ops are mindless soldiers” theme. So how does the writing try to fix that? By insisting that Team RWBY are friends and the Ace Ops aren’t. Friendship is an acceptable place to obey orders from, not responsibility. Caving to a friend’s perspective if inherently good—such loyalty!—whereas caving to your boss’s is inherently bad. That’s boot licking, mindless obedience, being a drone, etc. etc. all the terms we’ve heard in the fandom this volume.

"

seriously they went through the facts of the situation and agreed with ironwood ( they actually went through the facts before ironwood came to his conclusion and it wasnt disregarding their duty to protect the people it was protecting who they could by raising atlas into the upper atmosphere so they could protect the people on the flying island for there wasnt enough time to evacuate everyone if salem arrives everyone dies I mean we know that probably wont happen and miles and kerry will pull something out to try and pull a victory over the impossible odds but ironwood doesnt. ironwood shooting oscar was ooc of him oscar was no threat to him he wasnt trying to attack him or stop him I mean he just spared watts who he had more reason to kill ( it would have made more sense for ironwood to try to arrest oscar so he wont interfere)

you know ironwood is similar to erwin smith

sdsaa Since: Jan, 2019
#64025: Mar 15th 2020 at 12:45:33 PM

REBELFAL Con I disagree pyrrha was given a choice pretending it isnt because she wasnt told certain info when if they gave her that info it would have dragged her into the whole salem situation not telling her bits of info gave her the chance to cut free from the situation entirely if she said no. ozpin gave her time to think about it and when she said yes interrupting him he stopped her and went let me explain what this could do to you and pretending it isnt a choice by going well they knew how she acted so she would say yes so it doesnt count as a choice even though they gave her time to think about it etc


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