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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#63376: Feb 10th 2020 at 12:13:53 AM

A lot of that is stuff that just gets skipped as normal part of storytelling, though if we're lucky we might get one or two. Definitely not all, though.

Yeah, but RWBY's about as normal as a cow in a grocery store. The way they did Cinder's flashback worked fine - a snippet here, some dialogue there, we find out tidbits of where Emerald and Mercury were before they joined up with Cinder.

If RWBY & Co manage to keep their hands on an airship, all it would take is having the relevant storytellers (Qrow & Ozcar) present, and just use a relatively stable trip as a framing device for why they're taking the time to talk about this now.

I'd want something like that, but definitely next Volume. I can't take another Volume of "here's some things Team RWBY does and here's some less relevant things that the villains do. Now that we're halfway through something big happens and now we're rushing to that epic fight in the finale!"

For me, whilst Ironwood is an Anti-Villain and Well-Intentioned Extremist, he's crossed way to many lines to be a straight up hero

If you believe in saving every life no matter the cost then Ironwood is a villain.

If you believe in protecting life no matter the costs then Ironwood is still a hero, but he's against what our heroes represent and is thus Hero Antagonist.

Ironwood still believes what he's doing is right. He's not doing it out of some villainous desire to claim power, status, or territory. He's doing it because he genuinely believes it's mankind's only chance at stopping a greater evil. He's doing what he thinks will save humanity overall. Team RWBY wants that too, but they're going about it a different way.

Edited by Soble on Feb 10th 2020 at 12:19:12 PM

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
TheLovecraftian Since: Jul, 2017
#63377: Feb 10th 2020 at 2:56:27 AM

I was writing an OC RWBY fic too. But events in volume 4 and onwards made me scrap the fic altogether.

Outdated by Canon is a bitch.

This is why I generally go for AU, easier to stretch them writing legs without having to worry about Canon yanking them from under you.

Both of mine are essentially AU: The first is a rewrite of everything from the end of Volume 4 onwards (because I actually find Volume 4 a good starting point post-Beacon; That story is basically taking everything I think the show could have developed better and trying to do so), and the other is a complete rewrite with a much larger focus on making the Grimm a credible threat, and on how civilization in Remnant works in a world where having negative feelings can endanger everyone. It's a bit more serious than the original show.

Edited by TheLovecraftian on Feb 10th 2020 at 9:03:36 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#63378: Feb 10th 2020 at 3:36:27 AM

"If you believe in saving every life no matter the cost then Ironwood is a villain.

If you believe in protecting life no matter the costs then Ironwood is still a hero, but he's against what our heroes represent and is thus Hero Antagonist.

Ironwood still believes what he's doing is right. He's not doing it out of some villainous desire to claim power, status, or territory. He's doing it because he genuinely believes it's mankind's only chance at stopping a greater evil. He's doing what he thinks will save humanity overall. Team RWBY wants that too, but they're going about it a different way."

Yes, Ironwood isn't doing this with some sort of villainous intent and does mean well. That's what the "Anti" part of Anti-Villain is for. Amon or Magneto both believe what they're doing is right But both are also Villains.

Ironwood shoots a 14 year old boy for saying he was as dangerous as Salem without a trace of Remorse.

And the show Dosent really present Ironwood as simply having a different perspective then the protagonists. It presents him as a being a Paranoid maniac who Oscar calls as dangerous as Salem, even if he had good good intentions.

Edited by Kylotrope on Feb 10th 2020 at 1:38:44 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#63379: Feb 10th 2020 at 3:40:11 AM

Ironwood shot a 14-year-old boy with zero hesitation

I would follow that man into hell

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#63380: Feb 10th 2020 at 5:11:42 AM

Well, this series is full of grown ups who tries to touch girls who just finished puberty. evil grin

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Psyga315 Since: Jan, 2001
#63381: Feb 10th 2020 at 7:14:25 AM

Qrow and Jaune abused Oscar before it was cool.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#63382: Feb 10th 2020 at 7:36:45 AM

That's what the "Anti" part of Anti-Villain is for. Amon or Magneto both believe what they're doing is right But both are also Villains.

From the trope page of Hero Antagonist I think Ironwood still fits some of the definition:

They oppose the main character and may not even have Sympathetic P.O.V., but their objectives are things like Saving the World, foiling evil plans, helping the helpless, and otherwise working For Great Justice. A tweaking of the narrative could easily make them a sympathetic protagonist, and thus, a proper example of The Hero.

Usually, this character's main concern is that The Protagonist, either intentionally or not, may bring up a scenario that would spell doom for the world or, depending on the scale of the narrative, a single person. How they come to this conclusion varies. They may be misinformed as to the nature of their enemy. They could be completely correct in their assertions because the main character is a Villain Protagonist. In any of these events, the Hero Antagonist is able to keep their good alignment while still being the narrative's opposition.

But then, I suppose Anti-Villain is more fitting:

An Anti-Villain is the opposite of an Anti-Hero — a character with heroic goals, personality traits, and/or virtues who is ultimately the villain. Their desired ends are mostly good, but their means of getting there range from evil to undesirable. Alternatively, their goals may be selfish or have long-term consequences they don't care about, but they're good people who might even team up with the hero if their goals don't conflict.

They often reach a kind of critical mass that makes them more good than normal villains but not quite heroes, blurring the line between hero and villain the same way an Anti-Hero does, but coming from the opposite direction.

Edited by Soble on Feb 10th 2020 at 7:39:53 AM

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Ryno_v Since: Dec, 2017
#63383: Feb 11th 2020 at 12:12:06 PM

Three new RWBY shows coming this year for FIRST members. [1] [2]

Their are a A Behind the Scenes talk show hosted by Kerry, A D&D show inspired by RWBY, and A 2D animated series of shorts about fairy tales from Remnant.

Psyga315 Since: Jan, 2001
#63384: Feb 11th 2020 at 12:21:10 PM

Could a case be made for Oz's idea of lifting Atlas be considered a What An Idiot or a Nice Job Breaking It, Hero! moment?

Since all it did was not only cause segregation & tensions between Atlas and Mantle, but it causes the staff to not be able to be used for other, more important stuff.

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#63385: Feb 11th 2020 at 12:27:33 PM

I would disagree. Following that chain of logic the inventors of cars are idiots because people end up killed by them, the inventors of planes are idiots because later users created bombers, etc.

The idea that Oz had was for Altas to be a symbol and by 'll accounts this led to a burst of technological progress. The class divide between Atlas and Mantle isn't due to the idea, it's down to those who executed it.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#63386: Feb 11th 2020 at 12:41:26 PM

I'm curious what else the Staff could do. They only talk about it being able to replicate the effects of Gravity Dust, but that seems rather specific. Could it replicate the effects of any type of Dust (just one at a time)? Could they use it to power factories? Are they siphoning off a bit of the power through those giant cables to put it to other uses?

If it can replicate any type of Dust, this might have been chosen because it's the least dangerous option. Imagine if it could power a Wave-Motion Gun that Atlas could use to conquer everyone else.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
RebelFalcon ULTRANumb from ... (Private)
#63387: Feb 11th 2020 at 2:10:35 PM

Theoretically, it is pretty much a perpetual motion machine, an endless battery. So if it was used as an energy source, it would never run out. It creates endless possibilities.

Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#63388: Feb 11th 2020 at 3:00:18 PM

So having finally seen all of Volume 7, I think I only have two main points going through my head:

1. I love how Watts spontaneously started operating on another plane of existence and became AWESOME in this Volume. Being in his element definitely seemed to give him a lot more confidence and swagger. He's always been confident, but here he isn't babysitting Cinder or being slightly submissive to Salem. He's completely in control and gets to hack up a storm like nobody's business. I wouldn't say he was ordering Tyrian around, but Tyrian definitely let Watts shoulder the bulk of the scheming this season, and mostly followed his lead.

2. Based on certain lines, Oscar's definitely starting to merge with Ozma more and more. Ironwood said he's starting to "sound" like Ozpin, and Oscar unthinkingly talked about the purpose of Atlas like he was there for its construction.

God I don't like this. I really hope the writers know what they're doing here. Myself I can't think of a way to pull off Oscar getting Ozma's memories without it feeling it feeling really fucked up.

Edited by GNinja on Feb 11th 2020 at 11:08:55 AM

Kaze ni Nare!
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#63389: Feb 11th 2020 at 3:05:40 PM

Ironwood shoots a 14 year old boy for saying he was as dangerous as Salem without a trace of Remorse.

I wouldn't say there's no trace of remorse. In fact, I think there's clear remorse in the scene: but he's willing to sacrifice his feelings, just like he's sacrificing his arm and everything else.

Look at the animation of his eyes after Oscar calls him James. Up until his response, his eyes have been like everyone else's: animated with what I like to call 'life-lights' — that shiny gloss and spot of light that make them living eyes.

When he's finished saying 'My friends call me James', just as he's about to say 'You can call me General', the light vanishes from his eyes. In one very abrupt moment, his eyes turn completely dead. I didn't notice it the first time I watched the episode, but I did notice it on my second viewing: it's actually quite dramatic, but in a very subtle way.

I see that as the moment we see the decision: the pain and the decision to sacrifice that friendship on the same altar he's sacrificing everything else right now.

So, I don't think he was remorseless — but I do think he shut himself down so that he doesn't have to face how he's feeling. That's what he's been trying to do all volume: shut himself down so that he doesn't have to feel. It started with trying to avoid feeling fear; by the end of the volume, it's extended to trying to avoid feeling love and companionship, too. In fact, everything, really.

I'm curious what else the Staff could do. They only talk about it being able to replicate the effects of Gravity Dust, but that seems rather specific. Could it replicate the effects of any type of Dust (just one at a time)? Could they use it to power factories? Are they siphoning off a bit of the power through those giant cables to put it to other uses?

If it can replicate any type of Dust, this might have been chosen because it's the least dangerous option. Imagine if it could power a Wave Motion Gun that Atlas could use to conquer everyone else.

Well, I think Ozpin's advice to Oscar's question of how to save Atlas is going to be to ground Atlas: put Atlas back in the hole in the ground so it's sitting side-by-side with Mantle — the Relic of Creation can then be used to to create a massive forcefield that covers both cities, thereby protecting everyone. That still leaves Salem's army to deal with, the giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon's wings for flippers, Salem herself, and the villains who are already inside the cities, but it also creates a siege situation that's feasible given the ammunition that Salem's brought with her.

I'm therefore expecting the hero versus 'hero' conflict to be the struggle to either raise Atlas or ground it.

Remember, it's my theory that the staff is not inside the Chamber. I believe it's elsewhere — this is based on the fact that the chambers do not appear to be any location on Remnant, so I don't think it could power the city from in there, and because Ironwood said that both 'the staff and the lamp need to be locked away' — the staff won't need locking away if it's already locked away.

I don't expect Ace-Ops or Penny to know this, but I do expect Ironwood, Winter and Ozpin to know this.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Feb 11th 2020 at 11:17:25 AM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#63390: Feb 11th 2020 at 3:26:27 PM

I think one thing that might have helped make the Ace Ops' loss to Team RWBY go down smoother would've been if the team (barring Clover) had been positioned as the most promising PROSPECTS to come out of Atlas Academy, rather than explicitly the BEST Hunters in Atlas.

Have them be only a year into their careers (with Marrow being even more recent), and have Clover be the only trully unassailable elite among them (in the show he's the only one who seems to have the power to fight both Qrow AND Tyrian), who handpicked them as his partners because he wants to invest heavily into the next generation.

Edited by GNinja on Feb 11th 2020 at 11:31:32 AM

Kaze ni Nare!
Psyga315 Since: Jan, 2001
#63391: Feb 11th 2020 at 3:32:45 PM

If we're playing Paint the Hero Black...

Where did Robyn put those resources she stole? Because from how it looks with the gate, they only needed, like, a brick wall to plug in that gap. Also, with how Fiona quickly recovered, she would have been able to tell Robyn who actually hurt her, but instead, they seemed to use the accusation as an excuse to rob from the army.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#63392: Feb 11th 2020 at 9:55:02 PM

One of the most energizing scenes of Volume 7 by far.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
reppuzan Since: Dec, 2014
#63393: Feb 11th 2020 at 10:14:24 PM

"Omega is right too. According to RWBY: After the Fall, the mission that CFVY, a 2nd year team meaning they were only 18 at the time, were on that kept them from planning the dance was to a small village overrun by Grimm. There were no survivors from that village, and Coco was nearly killed due to her claustrophobia acting up and a Deaststalker attacking. And what's worse? They Failed. They all barely made it out of there, and this was a mission normal for their age, and they're considered some of the best Beacon has to offer."

This feels... odd, considering that CFVY utterly destroyed an entire army of Grimm coming up through Mountain Glenn in Volume 2. Deathstalkers were nothing to Coco and she easily beat Alpha Beowulves to death with just blunt blows.

RebelFalcon ULTRANumb from ... (Private)
#63394: Feb 11th 2020 at 10:21:03 PM

The Breach shouldn't be used as a proper measuring stick in regards to the narrative. Monty went and decided to make the scene adhere more to Rule of Cool instead of the plot. Because of this, whereas the plot required the Breach look like this massive disaster that the students were just barely able to handle, it instead made the Grimm look like chumps and was depicted as CFVY arriving single-handedly ending most of the threat. Because, like with many things, Monty was a kickass animator, not a writer, and as he'd demonstrated several times before, he had no issue just doing whatever he wants if he thinks it looks cool even at the expense of the story. It's also why we have Penny's robot reveal early, Yang & Raven's dream, and almost had Blake cutting the SDC train in half in the Black Trailer, and Raven randomly fighting JNPR.

Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#63395: Feb 11th 2020 at 11:17:03 PM

[up] The Breach fight doesn't even look cool though. Because the Grimm are so pathetic that beating them doesn't mean anything.

To contrast: The Ace Ops in Volume 7 probably lost too easily, but the fight at least established what each member could do and how they were a threat, so you could appreciate the clever ways RWBY managed to circumvent their strengths.

Kaze ni Nare!
RebelFalcon ULTRANumb from ... (Private)
#63396: Feb 11th 2020 at 11:32:13 PM

That's the point I was trying to make. In only trying to make it look cool, Monty just made it seem dumb.

Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#63397: Feb 12th 2020 at 11:16:11 AM

I mean, Raven's entire character was apparently Monty going "I'm gonna throw a bunch of random cool stuff together." She came out well, but pretty much only after the other writers had a chance to get a hold of her and find an interesting way to integrate her into the story and the world. Monty's idea was just "mysterious woman shows up, Neo freaks out, apparently she's Yang's mom."

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Cross (Don’t ask)
#63398: Feb 12th 2020 at 11:36:56 AM

Was that really all for her under Monty?

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#63399: Feb 12th 2020 at 1:32:25 PM

[up]No, the entire train fights are Monty because "he wanted boss fights"....that it, he said itself.

" and almost had Blake cutting the SDC train in half in the Black Trailer"

Adam, not Blake, you can see a holdover on that with Adam saying Blake give him time to Charge, something he dosent do anywhere else he used moonslice.

Also monty kinda sorta did something thing of frige logic: Ren palm death a king kaiju while phyrra explain jaune semblence while Adam use this weird shadow-weird efect on Yang to some extent he actually confuse her, stuff that make you....wait, what?.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#63400: Feb 12th 2020 at 4:41:07 PM

RE "Is Ironwood a Hero Antagonist or an Anti-Villain?": Hero Antagonist's opposite is not Anti-Villain; it's Villain Protagonist. The opposite of Anti-Villain in turn is Anti-Hero. Theoretically, a Hero Antagonist can be an Anti-Villain if part of the reason they're an antagonist is because they commit too many villain-like acts in the name of doing good (which makes them a Well-Intentioned Extremist).

Hell, Hero Antagonist's description says that it can overlap with a "Type IV" Anti-Villain (i.e. someone who is only nominally a villain, which I say does apply to Ironwood).

Where did Robyn put those resources she stole? Because from how it looks with the gate, they only needed, like, a brick wall to plug in that gap. Also, with how Fiona quickly recovered, she would have been able to tell Robyn who actually hurt her, but instead, they seemed to use the accusation as an excuse to rob from the army.
You're assuming that's the only hole in the perimeter. Or that the Grimm were attacking the hole(s) so frequently that it drastically slowed repairs as they keep having to rebuild the same portions time and time again.

~The Lovecraftian:

Care to explain what you're talking about now that Episod 13 is publicly out and I've watched it?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

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