We're just going in circles here, but to reiterate: Clover was hyperfocusing Qrow the entire time. If we entertain this "three-way scenario" (which it was never meant to be, since Tyrian realized fast enough he can game the system) then Qrow either ends up dead when Tyrian inevitably stabs him (like he stabbed Clover) or, in an ideal world, Clover manages to beat both of them and arrests them. (which was never going to happen either; worst case scenario: Tyrian kills both of them and leaves, maybe killing Robyn as a bonus)
Qrow was (hopefully still is) on his way to recovery from his addiction, terrible self-loathing, and a loss of direction in life, and Clover helped him a lot on that front. To be betrayed by the same man, to see that their friendship was ultimately worth less than Ironwood's authority, was a real kick in the dick - and made Qrow easily manipulable.
No, it didn't. He was completely fine with going along peacefully back in the airship, and only got into the fight after Robyn did, for some unknown reason. The way he talks about it, it almost seems like he's bored when he decides to join in. And even then, the fight on the ground only happens because he wants to get Robyn to safety but now refuses to be taken to Ironwood, despite having no reason to have changed his tune of "We'll talk to James" that he had inside the airship.
And I maintain: no emotional breakdown short of a face-heel turn would make someone side with Tyrian, let alone someone who has as much history with him as Qrow does. And for all that Qrow didn't want to be in conflict with Clover, he jumped in with Tyrian without trying to talk to Clover, or doing anything else other than attacking Tyrian once. There's a limit to what a writer can peg on an emotional breakdown, and this is one thing I'm just not willing to look past. It's a contrived way to get Clover killed, just like making Clover hyper-focused on Qrow instead of Tyrian is.
And all of it could have been solved if instead of joining the fight, Tyrian just watched from the sidelines and took advantage of it at the end.
But yes, we're going in circles, and I hold to my position, so it might be better if we just closed the topic here.
Also, you just brought something up that hadn't occurred to me... why didn't Tyrian kill Robyn? She was unconscious and unguarded, and right by the ship. Did he just not see her somehow?
Edited by TheLovecraftian on Feb 7th 2020 at 10:09:56 AM
"And I maintain: no emotional breakdown short of a face-heel turn would make someone side with Tyrian, let alone someone who has as much history with him as Qrow does"
The logic your using would make most usages of the Enemy Mine trope would be stupid. As those also usually involve teaming up with someone really bad. But if teaming up with them is the only really logical option available.
But anyway. With the Robyn thing...well, Its possible Tyrian just saw that Clover and Qrow were fighting and decided to focus on that. Or just didn't notice Her.
Things are really about to get Fun around hereNot necessarily. Most depictions of Enemy Mine also include something or someone that both parties consider worse than each other in the first place, which is definitely not the case here, as Qrow hardly thinks Clover is worse than Tyrian. Another non-insignificant number of those depict people with such incredibly serious and personal vendettas against a third party that their issues with each other get overriden, which, again, isn't the case when it comes to Qrow siding with Tyrian against Clover (rather, you'd think it would be the reason Qrow and Clover would work together). Context matters when using a trope like that. Situation, reasons, narrative weight, all of that stuff changes from case to case.
This one, I find too inane to accept.
Edited by TheLovecraftian on Feb 7th 2020 at 12:45:16 PM
Copying from the FIRST thread.
Ok, I'll come clean about this. That part in the opening, "Maybe you'll wake up in a world of charm"? I've been hearing "Maybe you'll wake up in a world with Jaune" this entire time.
I know that's not what it says, of course, but I find it funnier
You know what, that Neo fight went about as well as I thought it would. Neo takes no hits, but JNR don't really manage much either. Some top notch animation on Neo, although I wish she would have done some more damage. The second part of it is... well, better in terms of choreography, worse in terms of how events progress, mostly because none of this would be happening if people just stopped putting the Relic on kids' belts, or at the very least moved it to Jaune's belt (or anybody more qualified than the injured and tired Oscar) instead. There's also Neo accidentally triggering Ren, which is a fine-ish idea, but I'm not too keen on stuff like that happening by accident. I prefer my character development to come from characters' intentional actions as opposed to the villain accidentally causing onto it unawares.
"You think hoarding power means you'll have it forever, when it just makes the rest of us hungrier!" Uh, Cinder? The kettle called. It said you're black as well. Also, Jessica, love, step up your acting. You've been better, but this episode is just embarassing for you.
Penny and Winter Vs Cinder is well choreographed, but poorly shot. I had to rewind several times to understand what was going on properly. Taking the fight to the outside with the fliers is a great idea, but they don't capitalize on it much, sadly, although with Winter's involvement as a conditional flier that makes sense. I ended up laughing at how she chastised Penny for saving her, though, since the way it's shown, it's not like it slowed Penny down at all. She's five seconds behind Cinder at worst, it'll be fine. Well, I say that. The show is probably going to act like there's some kind of significant distance between them, even though penny caught Winter when Cinder was still in frame.
And yet again, Cinder is undone by her pathological need to be a dramatic git. Actually, scratch that. Cinder is done in by the 80-year old lady. Fair points for that: they finally made a Maiden seem powerful, and it's beautiful to look at. Puts Cinder's pathetic little demonstrations into perspective. And, of course, Penny becomes the Winter Maiden (Called it!). I'm genuinely surprised that that wasn't the plan from the offset: creating an artificial girl always seemed to me like step one on a plan for making a theoretically immortal Maiden. But I guess that's not where Ironwood was going with this. Don't know if even the writers thought that one through. Should be interesting to see going forward, though. (Also, finally they cash in on that "Aura doesn't protect your arm" thing from Volume 5.)
Oscar's meeting with Ironwood is where all the good cinematography went. First of all, Oscar actually looks like Ozpin when he arrives. The pose helps, sure, but it's in his eyes and expression: put those wiry glasses on him and he might as well have never reincarnated in the first place. Then, we have Oscar saying that holding the cane helps calm him, only to put it away so he and Ironwood can be in the same place: scared of what's going on. But while Oscar keeps himself calm, Ironwood almost immediately loses it for no reason. Then, as Oscar steps out of the shadows in the Vault, Ironwood steps into them so he can shoot Oscar and finish the villain transformation.
The end of the confrontation is something I dislike a bit more, not because of Ironwood's choice (it was obvious they were commited to making him a full villain from the start), but because I don't see why the Vault has a long tube that connects to some other part of the city. Why do the Vaults have that kind of weakness? Mistral's had one as well.
Oscar surviving was obvious, so there's no tension there. Ozpin being back is nice, I guess, but I'd have to see where they take it. And of course, Ironwood doesn't get the Maiden and the Relic, because otherwise the show would have to commit to a plan that has no way of working, something every fan spent the last two weeks discussing. If only you'd given him a plan that had any feasibility, show. Then Winter possibly getting the Winter Maiden's powers but getting outshined by Penny might have been less obvious as well.
Alright, Winter can fuck off. She got jobbed real hard, being an Atlas Specialist who managed to give Qrow an interesting fight in Volume 3, but then basically got her ass handed to her here multiple times, and then accusing Weiss of doing something before even looking at the girl. Giving Weiss a head start while also calling for reinforcements is supposed to look like her being a decent-ish person underneath, but no. That's bull. She gives Weiss crap without ever listening to her, presuming her to be the guilty party, like, you know, an abuser would. And then she calls the dogs on her while acting as if she's letting her escape. Winter dropped several levels in likeability for me there.
Also made a complete fool of? Cinder. I don't see how anybody is supposed to take her seriously now. Thrice in a row has Cinder made a plan, executed it, and then failed at the critical moment. Thrice has she thought she was on top of things, only to be defeated by her own incompetence and need to be dramatic. One of those involving a forgetful elderly lady, who actually grabs Cinder's arm and pushes her away, no Maiden powers required! Three defeats in five years (all of them in odd-numbered Volumes, coincidentally), with no victories in-between. Why are we supposed to take Cinder seriously again? She's barely a threat anymore. Hell, her only victory in this Volume was the thing with the chess piece, and that was incidental!
...ok, I gotta give points to the show. Salem technically hasn't left her realm at all. Good game
A cliffhanger ending was kind of a given. Too much stuff to solve in one episode. I'm kind of lightly bothered that they showed Watts survived, since that would make for a nice future surprise, but it's not that important. As for the post-credits stuff... there isn't any. Either that or the person that uploaded the version I watched cut it.
So, Volume. Frankly, I dunno. As individuals, the episodes have more quality than the last Volume's, but as a whole, I kind of hate this Volume almost as much as Volume 5. The first episode sets the scene and it's fine, but everything from episodes 2 to 9 is redundant and almost entirely irrelevant, since no real development is made by the characters that isn't explained from episode 9 onwards, and everything that happens in them is self-contained, solved in one stroke, and has no consequence going forward. That entire portion of the Volume feels like filler that's only there because putting the big climax at the start would feel weird. The rest of the Volume is ok, with one of the best episodes in the show being immediately followed by one of the worst. And the finale, while a good episode, doesn't carry as much weight due to the fact that it feels (and let's be honest, is) just setup for Volume 7's last third, I.E. Volume 8. On the whole, this Volume feels like a lot of time wasted for not a lot of story actually happening. I'll have to think on it a bit more before I make a proper decision on how I feel about it compared to the others, but I can definitely say I haven't liked it as much.
To be honest, at some point during this Volume, I had a 6-page long Word document with all the stuff I was going to complain about when the Volume ended. Some of it, like the Ironwood plot, I got to talk about earlier than I expected. Some of it I've been saying in small amounts, like my issue with the redundant political plot. The rest of it was either general observations (about the new writers, the gradual improvements in the fights), things I personally dislike (the direction the fights have taken, the fact that we waited the entire Volume before getting any of them, the way character interactions were handled) or some actual issues with the show, but frankly, I'm not feeling like it right now. Annoyance isn't a long-lasting emotion, and I have better things to do than hold onto complaints for an entire month. I am plenty bothered by this Volume, and the show in general, but right now, I'm just kinda fine with ending the Volume.
Right. Now then, with that said, I think I'm done.
No, not with the volume. With RWBY.
I'm done with RWBY.
I quit.
It's been a long time coming, and frankly, I'm surprised as anyone that it didn't happen immediately after Volume 5. But I've been coming to terms with the idea since chapter 7 this volume, and frankly, I should have done this before. I feel like explaining my position, though, so here's another folder.
The thing is, I'm tired of RWBY. I'm tired of constantly seeing a show come so close to being good, and then consciously take several steps backwards into being stupid. Tired of seeing so much potential be thrown away on a weekly basis, tired of waiting an entire Volume for one or two decent fight scenes, tired of being promised a well-thought out narrative and given a saturday morning cartoon. But more importantly, tired of being angry about it all the time.
I arrived at this show because of Monty's action, and when he died, I stayed because of how much promise the narrative had given us at the end of Volume 3. Four years later, and honestly, I feel shortchanged. The potential did not pay off. Time and time again, I've seen the show skirt good ideas, only to back away from them at the first opportunity and waste an incredible setting and cast. And on top of that, the fight animation, while admittedly improving with every fight, has moved away from the things that drew me to Monty's action in the first place. I've stopped enjoying the show. I kept on watching mostly for two reasons: one, because RWBY is a fascinating case study for how it's writers handle things that they clearly have no experience handling and how it's fans react to that, and second, most importantly, because of those occasional plot hooks that show up just to give us a glimpse, and then hide away again, to be mentioned in a future Volume. The small promises of a deeper, more carefully thought out plot.
Truth is that, as far as I'm concerned, most of that doesn't exist. There's no real story in RWBY. No mystery about how Summer died (or if she did), no plan behind Salem's actions, no real idea behind the Silver Eyes, no real answer as to where the Relic of Choice is. There's no plan made in advance, no narratives we'll all look back to one day and see the hints of it's conclusion strewn throughout. There's nothing like that here. There's just a large amount of carrots being dangled on strings, with occasional little pieces being thrown at us to remind everybody that if we keep watching, then someday, maybe, they'll answer all of these things and the great amount of investment and expectations we've built up will finally be rewarded.
And that day may very well never come. I know I've given up on waiting for it, and it doesn't feel like the writers have concerned themselves enough to actually write it. Brothers know that the lore dump last volume felt like it was cobbled together impromptu a few weeks before it was released, and I expect nothing more than that for any future reveals if they ever get made. I have no reason to expect more.
And therefore, no reason to keep watching.
TL;DR is, I liked RWBY once, but I don't like what it's become. I feel disappointed by just about every current aspect of the show, and think it's about time I cut my losses. I still enjoy the early volumes, and even occasional moments in the more recent ones, but at this point, I'm forcing myself to watch something I dislike for reasons that are in no way healthy. My opinions are clearly not agreed with by most of the fanbase or even in this very thread, and I'm tired of having lengthy, pointless discussions on a weekly basis with people who want to enjoy the show in their own way and don't really care for my grumpy opinion on it.
Maybe I'll try binging the next volume when it's done airing, see if it's better that way. Maybe I'll forget about it when it does come around. I dunno. I don't even know how long I'll be hanging around here once the discussion on this episode ends. Might show up once in a while if I find any art or fanfic stuff that's really good and deserves sharing, but I don't think I'll be discussing the show any longer once we close this Volume out. I'll just finish up the fanfics I was writing about it, post them somewhere and move on.
And it's about fucking time I did it, too.
I don't think any part of that one's been changed.
- Dust is very old
- It has unique properties
- Humans have harnessed it for technology (ah doy) and ammunition (Ruby used an electric bullet on Nora in Volume 4 and Ironwood and Watts had a few special rounds too)
- It can be used raw, refined, or infused into the body (granted, we haven't seen that in two Volumes)
- It can be weaved into clothing (Cinder hasn't done this in awhile)
- We still don't know where it came from (but then, what else is new)
- Something about watching Cinder get tag-teamed, both by the prospective Winter Maiden, and somebody who has powers equivalent to hers (flight, multiple swords, projectiles) and who later becomes the Winter Maiden is immensely satisfying.
- Seeing that giant grifon Winter rode on I got to wonder... if Weiss had killed that mammoth-sized Grimm two episodes ago, would a Schnee be able to summon one of those? What if she killed it with a cannon or something? That'd be freaking awesome to have as a battle pet.
- Wait. So touching something too cold can shred Winter's glove? I don't think that's how temperature works!
- I read ahead a bit and someone criticized the finale for making Penny the maiden... I agree somewhat. It feels more like "surprise for the sake of surprise." Didn't expect it, but after building up to it the whole volume it feels like we just robbed Team Ironwood of a valuable player instead of supplying a memorable plot twist.
- Makes me wonder how they'll proceed with Ironwood's character from here - he's lost any seat he had at the table. The Ace Ops are leaderless and defeated. He doesn't have the relic. Winter is on ice. The heroes have abandoned him, and the Big Bad is on his doorstep. He's got nothing to fight with now.
- Oscar becoming more like Ozpin by the day. Look at him with that Gandalf swagger.
- So if Penny is the Maiden and Winter isn't then Ironwood and Salem have no way to retrieve the Staff.
- So the color of Maiden eyes is just dependent on your Aura then - red, orange, blue, green. Interesting.
- No post-credits scene? Et tu, Rooster Teeth?
Edited by Soble on Feb 8th 2020 at 11:09:28 AM
I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!Volume 7 Episode 13 (also copied over from the FIRST thread)
- We open with the subtitles saying '(tense dramatic music)', which for once actually does feel suspenseful... interrupted by Jaune saying 'Give up', which completely breaks the mood that's starting to form. I hope that's not a sign of things to come for the rest of the episode.
- And Ren discovers the downside of having grappling hooks on his guns.
- Okay, Team JNR pointed out that Neo was outnumbered then proceed to fight her almost one-on-one? Their team-fu is not strong.
- Nice Relic catch. But, seriously, the Relic shouldn't be on his belt in the first place. They've known since the beginning of Volume 6 that it falls off everyone's belts too easily — especially Oscar's.
- On the subject of the Relic catch... I'd like to speculate that Oscar doing those shenanigans while in mid-air is a hint that he'll eventually develop some levitation ability (because, you know, Ozma has magic and we saw Ozpin flying/levitating a few times during his fight with Cinder) — but I don't know if it really is and is just supposed to be a Rule of Cool moment instead. I'm keeping an eye on it anyway — but then, I've been keeping my eye out for levitation since Oscar first joined the show.
- Oscar's expression shows us he knows he's out of his depth. Boy definitely needs some of that prodigy magic to catch-up to the rest of the cast.
- Nice use of Jaune's shield there.
- Now we finally see signs of them actually starting to use numbers against her.
- Uh... what? What the hell, Oscar?
- And Neo does Neo.
- And the guards spot them.
- Oscar's looking exhausted — which, in fairness, he should. He's effectively just fought Neo twice. It's been a pretty lousy day for him.
- Cinder's Grimm arm is effective against Penny's laser power. That's actually quite interesting.
- I do like Winter's Nevermore storm. It's nice to see that again.
- Takes one to know one, Cinder: you're a power-hoarder, too. At least you're not claiming that you have more right to the Maiden power than the candidate does. Again.
- Having said that, it's another sign of what I've been looking for with regards to Cinder's back story. Someone who wants to be strong, feared and powerful comes from a background where they were weak, terrified and powerless. Cinder talking about how power-hoarding makes other people feel very much is a 'takes one to know one' situation — Cinder's entire back story is probably from the 'hungry' side of the equation and she clearly has no tolerance for the people who have the power. In fact, it flips her off the edge of madness into full-blown crazy.
- Cinder's hunger references also reminds me of what she said to Salem in the V3 flashback when she first absorbed half of Amber's power: 'It burns, like hunger; I like it'.
- Now we're seeing a proper numbers fight: Winter and Penny working together is pretty good.
- I wonder what Winter's landing strategy is.
- Yeah, Cinder's definitely not very in control of her emotions here.
- Uh... okay, ignore me. Apparently, Winter doesn't need a landing strategy. That's awesome.
- Oh, nice. Cinder isn't so emotional that she's stopped strategising. I'm glad to see that.
- And there goes Winter's Aura. And Cinder bolts off leaving Penny with a choice: chase her to protect the Winter Maiden or save the falling Winter. Penny, of course, chooses to save Winter. Ironwood is going to roast her core to molten metal for not sacrificing Winter to protect the current Maiden. Given the mood he's in, I can see him being very pissed off with Penny. And, yes, I know this would leave him with the problem of who gets the Maiden power if Fria is saved and Winter is sacrificed, but this Ironwood's current mood we're talking about here.
- And, apparently, Winter feels the same way.
- Oscar's really far behind Team JNR — that's not a good sign for Oscar.
- Okay, I've had a suspicion for years that the Academies have secret corridors, which is why I loved the reveal of the secret room in Haven Academy so much. Secret corridor reveal time, perhaps?
- Hello, I spy an Atlas Information Board. And here's where I stop the episode completely to try and read it. I do things like this.
- Nope, same information from Episode 2. We're clearly not supposed to be reading this information board. Note to CRWBY: I am not going to be the only fan who stops an episode to read absolutely everything that flashes up on a screen before I continue watching the episode. We're the part of the fandom that annoys you by spotting things like this.
- That's a man shouting 'they went this way', isn't it? The subtitles say it's a woman.
- Is that Nora's hand or Neo disguised as Nora?
- It's Neo. That doesn't look like one of Nora's expressions, she has no visible weapon, and the Relic is already gone from Oscar's belt.
- And, yes, It's Neo. Nice reflexes, Oscar.
- And Team JNR has separated. Seriously, this team needs to learn how to work together.
- Just as I was wondering how Ren might feel having to attack someone who looks like the woman he loves, Neo decides to play on exactly that. Nice move, Neo.
- So.. where is Nora?
- Oh, there she is. I assume it's really Nora because she's got her weapon again.
- Ren's crying. I swear there's seriously something going on with Ren's Semblance messing with his emotions this volume.
- Heh, the creators really are having fun with the fandom's 'Everyone is Neo!' meme, aren't they? I think we officially have a case of Ascended Meme now — and I don't say that very often.
- What's going on with Cinder's shoulder? It looks like muscle showing through the black, which I assume is part of the Grimm arm. I was wondering this previously — because if it's the Grimm arm, then it's slowly taking over Cinder's body. Originally the Grimm arm only went three quarters of the way up. This is what I've been assuming for some time, ever since we saw the parasite Grimm absorb into her body. And then she got the Grimm arm, where Salem warned her she had to control it or it would control her (actually the point was about fear). I've said before: at some point, I'm expecting Cinder's left eye to open... to reveal a Grimm eye.
- Fria does seem to have some degree of dementia, after all. She's not entirely gone, however. At least, there's enough of the Winter Maiden left to recognise a threat.
- I was hoping we'd see a glimpse of what a really old, experienced Maiden is capable of.
- And there goes Penny... which means the theory that Penny becomes the next Winter Maiden is now all but confirmed. I've got to say that this was the theory that I liked least (well, Winter getting the Maiden power was the theory I liked least, but Winter was never going to happen anyway).
- And Ren's exploding again. He's not exactly wrong, however: they did become Huntsmen too early. But I think this is more about getting to the bottom of what's going on with Ren, and I still think his Semblance is making him empathic.
- Um. Oscar... what?
- Protect the power of the Maiden until ready... oh. So Fria was actually in on the plan to transfer the Maiden power to Winter all along. Her dementia has made her memory and sense of time ropey but it does seem that she had given her permission for this plan.
- Yep, it's definitely going to be Penny.
- Oh. Oscar went to find Ironwood. Interesting how Oscar knew exactly where to find him.
- Oscar's entry into the scene is very Ozpin: the way he stands on the lift, the way he walks with the cane. It's easy to see why Ironwood asks him to identify who he's talking to.
- Yeah, Ironwood. Smart. That's why. Still, points for self-awareness. He's turning into something nasty, but at least he's aware of it. Actually... screw the points. That's worse.
- Ah, the appeal to unity. The line between Oscar and Ozpin is so blurred right now. I guess that's the point.
- The subtitle says 'I guess it's because of us, but holding it helps calm me down when I'm afraid'. Is that supposed to be 'Oz' not 'us'?
- Subtitles aside, that's not the first time we've been told the cane brings a comfort beyond Oscar's ken.
- Oh, Ironwood. This is the problem. Be human. Embrace your fear.
- And there goes Oscar attempting to quote the episode tagline. But, again, wisdom beyond his youth and experience. That Oscar/Ozpin line is getting blurrier by the second.
- Seriously, dude. Embrace your fear.
- No, that's not how Salem got her opening.
- Oscar pointing out that Ironwood's sacrificing the future to save the present — and only part of the present at that.
- Um... Ironwood, what exactly is your version of the big picture? Because, right now, Oscar is referring to your 'big picture' from earlier in the volume... we're into 'conquer Remnant to save it territory now', aren't we? If so, Ironwood's now walking Salem's path.
- Oh, hell. That's the most Ozpin thing I've ever heard Oscar say. From the entire sentiment to using 'James'.
- Ironwood's response is a callback to his introduction in V2: Ozpin greeted him as 'General' and Ironwood told him to drop formalities between friends. He's rescinding that here.
- And Oscar's over the cliff with his Aura gone. Well, this is either going to lead to magic, Ozpin coming back, or one of the cane's tricks being revealed. Or we could go crazy and see all three happen, which would be great for that crack theory I've had but not really expecting to see.
- And Winter gets the Grimm arm. It'll grow back... yep. It grows back. In an episode full of call-backs, here's another one: to Raven's comments in V5, warning Cinder that Aura can't protect her Grimm arm.
- And Cinder is officially crazy. Don't you just regret cutting off Cinder's Grimm arm now, Winter? On a serious note, however, is Cinder originally from Mantle? Or Atlas, perhaps? She claimed she was from Mistral during her V3 broadcast, but that doesn't have to be true. Either way, she's got serious issues with authority. She's even been defying Salem — the more Salem put her foot down, the more frustrated, desperate and angry Cinder became. It's like it's all exploded in this episode and Winter's being made the scapegoat.
- That connection between Fria and Penny looks more like Aura or Semblance than magic. We've never seen a 'natural' transfer of Maiden power before, so I wouldn't expect it to be done the way it did for Cinder at Beacon. But it does set up Penny actually having a full Aura now (Fria's), and not having to rely on Pietro's, because this is probably a case of Fria transmitting her entire Aura to Penny.
- And Ozpin's back.
- Penny as Maiden confirmed. I'm not sure I like the eye fire, although I get the clear point: Fria's eye-fire was blue and she used ice. Penny is a robot, her dominant colour theme is green, and the eye-fire is going to conform to her nature and personality — which might be a little bit different for a robot.
- And it looks like we're going to have a cane reveal. Hm. this is gold light. Like Oscar's eyes when the Ozpin transfer occurs. A colour associated with the God of Light.
- Oh, look. Ruby and Weiss arrive just in time to get in the action. I think I actually hate their timing.
- Oscar's entire body is glowing gold now, not just the cane's centre-piece.
- Well, Ruby's silver eyes still work. And suddenly they're working on demand, too. That, of course, makes Cinder a completely pointless villain on two fronts at this stage in the story (keeps failing to gain more Maiden power and keeps getting auto-silvered by Ruby). This needs to be addressed otherwise there's no further point in keeping Cinder in the story.
- Silver eyes activated in the presence of the new Winter Maiden. Just in case there's anyone out there who still thinks Cinder's vulnerability to Ruby is because she's a Maiden rather than because the Maiden power is bound to her by a Grimm, Penny isn't going to be affected by Ruby's power.
- And of course we're not allowed to see for certain what the cane just did but I've seen enough to have a theory. It looks like that big Aura shield effect Ozpin did against Cinder in V3. Both then, and now, we see Oscar/Ozpin go into a zen state. Combine that with several comments about how the cane makes Oscar feel, and there's clearly some kind of mental link between Ozma/Oscar and the cane, and some kind of mental factor in how the cane truly functions.
- Hello, Ozpin lecture in-coming. God, I've missed Ozpin.
- Ooh, did Oscar blast his way out of the bottom of Atlas? Oh, God. I was joking earlier when I mentioned my crack theory, but it's actually on the verge of being confirmed here — it was one of my crack theories, so I didn't really expect it to ever actually happen in the show. I'm going to laugh so much if that really is what's happening.
- I don't really care if that use of silver eyes collapsed Ruby in exhaustion. She's still rendered Cinder pointless and ineffective as a villain. Something has to drastically change for Cinder now because there's otherwise no point keeping her in the show.
- And Cinder's disappeared. Again.
- Winter looks so unravelled. Her hair is much shorter than I thought it would be.
- And Ruby's instantly okay, so even her momentary collapse of exhaustion is over and done with. Seriously, CRWBY, fix Cinder's role in this story or get rid of her.
- Well, doesn't Winter look pissed off that Penny got the power. Winter, dear, the one certain thing in this show was that you were never, ever going to get the Maiden's power.
- I like the fact that Weiss notices Winter's mood.
- Yeah, Qrow's going to be pegged with Clover's death. He's still kneeling over Clover's body as the soldiers approach, and his blade is right there, covered with Clover's blood and matching the wound in Clover's chest.
- Why is Robyn coming around so easily? Wasn't she supposed to be in need of medical attention?
- I'm rather done with Cinder's screaming. I'd rather just have an effective villain that feels like a threat. Still, at least they didn't keep us waiting to find out what happened to Cinder.
- Ren is not a happy bunny. I guess we'll learn more about what's going on with him in V8. I'm still thinking he's becoming empathic. That, or he can also do the reverse of masking emotions (inciting emotions) and, because he keeps bottling, he's inciting emotions in himself all the time.
- Well, at least they can tell Yang what happened to the Relic. Oscar, on the other hand... well, they don't know this, but he's currently gone full Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds right now.
- Of course, Qrow had to be arrested anyway, so we'll probably find out more about the Clover situation in V8. But he's got hold of Clover's lucky clover/horseshoe badge and I maintain my belief that Qrow will eventually learn his Semblance can do more than just 'bad luck'. I've been predicting that since V4, I know, but if this turns into growth from his relationship with Clover, I won't mind at all. The badge was Clover's activation 'tic' — he'd strike the edge of the badge and we'd know he was activating his Semblance. So, the symbolism here is that, among all of Qrow's bad luck symbolism that he wears and carries, this is his very first 'good luck' symbolism. That said, right now, he's probably feeling like this was his bad luck at work.
- And Robyn doesn't look like she needs any medical assistance at all. It does look like we will be seeing Qrow and Robyn bonding next volume — starting with a shared loss over Clover and their shared situation.
- Hello... there's me admiring the long-shot of Atlas's underbelly and that looks like some very nasty storm weather coming in. Red lightning. So... Salem, that you, babe?
- Yes, Oscar. You're still tripping the light fantastic there.
- And Winter's doing the only thing she can do in the situation. She has to obey Ironwood's orders, but she can at least give her sister a chance in the process. Given Ironwood's current mood, just doing that could get Winter into serious trouble. Although judging by Weiss's horrified expression... does she even understand that?
- Yeah, I think she does.
- And Maria's ship just happens to land in the exact location the Winter Maiden was being held? True there's all that ice that exploded out of the building to clue them and they've probably got scroll geo-locators. Oh, sod it. It's a minor thing and it can be hand-waved.
- And the gang's all back together again. Well, except for Oscar and Qrow. And... well, are we ready to call Robyn part of the gang yet? Let's call her an honorary member for now.
- The Penny, Ruby, Weiss snuggle just creates a giant alarm that Penny won't keep the Maiden powers long-term and that Weiss probably will end up with them. Because the Weiss snuggle is more 'unexpected' than the Ruby snuggle. It's setting up a Penny/Weiss bond. And my scenario for Penny giving up the Maiden powers will be more related to her nature than to any death flag. That said, it defies the Pinocchio theme for her to lose the Maiden powers by any means other than death.
- Cute Neo is cute.
- Yeah, Neo's definitely not working with Cinder because she wants to.
- And Ironwood's day gets worse.
- No surprise Watts is still alive, but it's good we don't have to wait until V8 to confirm it. Either his facial injury is healing fast, or there's an animation inconsistency.
- Watts looks so content in his prison. With this scene coming right after Ironwood's scream, it effectively emphasises what Watts and Salem both said to Ironwood: Watts wasn't there to 'win' in the way Ironwood thought — which is why Watts, despite being captured, has indeed 'won'. He's done exactly what Salem wanted him to do: the heroes are divided, Ozpin and Ironwood are divided (remember the villains comments in V6 — they did not want Ozpin and Ironwood teaming up), and the stage is set for Salem.
- Dark shadow is ominous. I guess that red lightning really was Salem's arrival.
- And now Oscar's performing bubble manoeuvres without the cane. It's only a fraction of the bubble we saw Ozpin form in V3 against Cinder, but it's there. And it moves like Aura even though his Aura has shattered... so magic or Aura? Can he regenerate his Aura super-fast or is the line between his magic and Aura blurred? Or... did his cane regenerate his Aura?
- Haha. And my crack theory came true. It actually came true. I'm going to laugh so hard about that. Anyway, hell of a landing strategy, Oscar. I now feel more confident in interpreting his earlier oddity against Neo as a levitation foreshadow because his landing definitely just involved some form of very brief flight control.
- Well, Ozpin's narration on fear is pretty much about Ozpin himself, and Ironwood, and everyone the scenes rotated through as he talked. However, Oscar's comment about 'these memories' suggests to me that Oscar's remembering this speech, that it's something that was said in Ozpin's past. So, the real question is: is this connected to the Ozpin/Salem narration we've had since the pilot episode? Or is it from a conversation he once had with someone from Team STRQ — Raven or Summer, perhaps?
- Nice callback to the V6 finale. Ozpin did save them at the end of V6, Oscar returns the favour here. Of course, Oz would just reincarnate, so it's still mostly Oscar's life being saved here.
- Heh. Do you think Oz will ever be allowed to finish those sentences he begins with a hesitant 'I—'? Right from Salem whacking his first reincarnation into oblivion to Qrow punching Oscar's face to right now, where Oscar interrupts him.... let the man finish his sentence for once! Seriously, we've practically got a Running Gag going at this point.
- Anyway, obvious apology is obvious. Good on Oscar for focussing on what's important.
- And call back to the beginning of V7 and the end of V6. The manta flying away from Atlas instead of towards it.
- Yeah... Salem's army has arrived.
- Wait... what?
- Am... Am I looking at a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers? Wasn't I watching RWBY? When did I pick up Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy?
- In the grand tradition of female villains everywhere, Salem's gone into battle wearing a dress that exposes her heart as much as possible. Because everyone knows that the size of a villainess's threat level is dictated by the size of her battle ensemble's Cleavage Window.
- But, seriously. Giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers.
- Wait... where's the stinger?! Are they now a thing of the past? Did CRWBY not know how to follow up the reveal of a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers?
- On a serious note. It feels like the end of the volume is Oscar asking Ozpin how they save Atlas. The bit from the manta flying away from Atlas and the radio chatter about hostiles to the reveal of Salem riding on her giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers would be the bit that would haven been the Stinger in previous volumes.
- And, yes. I am going to spend the entire hiatus until V8 trying to work 'giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers' into everything I can possibly can.
- Last point: Earlier I mentioned I had a crack theory about Oscar that looked like it was coming true in this episode. I don't know if I've ever mentioned it on the forum before, but I've had it ever since the end of V6, when it was confirmed that Atlas was a floating city: We would see a moment come where Oscar would be thrown from Atlas's height and hurtle towards the ground far below. It would be a moment where his Aura was broken and in a situation where the characters would be left thinking he was dead. The fall would be a trigger for his levitation to kick in, just enough to float him safely down to Mantle's ground. He would then be left with the problem of having to reunite with his companions back on Atlas. For a theory I had in my 'joke' box and my 'not sure how serious a theory to label it' box, it turned out to be unexpectedly close to the mark.
- As to theorising about a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers, on the other hand... nope, didn't have one of those lying around — not even in my 'joke' box.
- The design of Winter's Nevermores are so much better than they used to be. Even the wings look much better — and the wings have traditionally been a very weak point in the animation of birds and winged Grimm for this show. Even as recently as the Cordovin battle, Qrow's bird form looked absolutely terrible at times.
- Cinder dragging Winter and Penny outside the building they're in: there a giant M3 on the side of the building. I wonder what that means. Is it a sector designation? A company name? Something else? There's another block in the background that looks like it might be M2. When Cinder fireballs Penny, there's a 4 in the background.
- I really like the fact that part of the Cinder fight is happening in the infrastructure underbelly of Atlas. Even though Atlas is the more 'sci-fi' element to Mantle's 'gothic steampunk' setting, we're still being given some steampunk elements to Atlas, too.
- The special effects during the Cinder/Penny/Winter fight, and the lighting from those effects, are really good — sometimes, they're downright beautiful. It's getting back to the quality of the Cinder/Ozpin fight at the end of V3. Why couldn't the Cinder/Raven fight have been this good? (I did like the Raven/Cinder fight, but the special effects never felt as good as the Cinder/Ozpin fight, and the reliance on sword-spam felt a bit like we were being cheated out of a proper 'magical' duel — that said, Raven is sword-focussed, so it made sense for her; I guess I was just hoping for a 'storm-crow' theme for her Maiden fight — hard to go for the 'fury of the storm' theme underground, though.)
- Okay, we've got E41 and E42 floating around as well. I'm thinking they're some kind of sector designations.
- The Atlas corridors do manage to look very different with the red emergency lighting compared to how they looked earlier in the volume (such as when Penny took them on a tour of the academy). I think that's a really good touch.
- No separate folder for the Atlas Academy News Board because I realised as I read it that it's exactly the same information that we were given on the boards in Chapter 2. Which means it's been the longest week ever, given that Penny is still supposed to be rewarded 'next Monday', the administrative ladies toilet still hasn't been fixed, and... the election results still haven't happened yet. Oops. But... we still have unanswered questions!
- What is the story behind the decimated toilet?!
- I can finally see what the competition name is: Fit 4 Atlas. Yes, this has bugged me ever since Chapter 2. (No, seriously, not really. I forgot about it until just now. I'm not quite that bad.)
- As Oscar falls, we can see that what he's falling through is a man-made structure. It's a shaft rather than an abyss. It's another sense of the infrastructure that lies behind the shiny surface of Atlas.
- I really like how we continually see the damaged Aura transfer pod's light flickering behind Fria's ice. It's consistently there throughout all the scenes in her room.
- The scenery lighting on Qrow and the snow is, as ever, beautiful. And it's a nice, silent way of confirming that Oscar is definitely falling through the sky from Atlas towards the ground because the sky colours and lighting in both scenes are the same.
- That scene shift from Robyn regaining consciousness to the sight of Atlas in the early morning light is quite possibly my favourite image of Atlas to date. It's stunning. Just to gush a bit about some of the things that jump out at me:
- The default blues becoming accents to the pinks work really well together. And the background detail really does make it look like a well-populated, well-built city.
- We can see little rail circuits around individual Academy towers.
- There's a rail circuit in the city that is at ground level before rising up to the altitude circuits like a roller coaster. And signs elsewhere in the picture that other circuits travel to the ground as well.
- There are blue versions of the high-tower heaters that we saw in Mantle (cleaner and bluer, in this case, of course).
- There's one tower near the Academy that has the Schnee logo on it and that has to be the SDC HQ.
- There's no doubt in my mind that the environment animators and 2D environment artists have done a fantastic job this volume.
- Another nice environment shot of the morning sky. This time, the underside of Atlas. And somewhere at the bottom of that — I suspect right at the very central bottom bit where all the tethers go — will be a hole that Oscar blasted to fall through.
- I like the fact that Oscar is already running towards Neo as she's facing the other way to deal with Ren. At least someone is trying to use numbers against her.
- Oscar grabs both sides of the cane so the Relic can't slide off. That's good, but does leave him vulnerable (his expression shows he knows that, which is nice).
- I'm putting it here but I don't know if I like or dislike it: Oscar grabbing Neo around the feet is a bit narmtastic. At the same time, it makes a certain sense — he's already battered, he has shown clear nerves and uncertainty in fighting her. Him behaving like what he is, a fourteen-year-old boy tossing away fighting to essentially rugby-tackle his opponent, does make a certain amount of sense. And it has an amusement value. So, I lean towards 'like' rather than 'dislike'.
- Oscar's shoulders slumping with half-lidded eyes when they realise there are soldiers after them is a nice touch. It conveys very quickly that he's hitting his exhaustion limit and sets up his struggle to keep up with his team-mates. After all, he's a kid who has to keep up with borderline adults at the best of times — and he's really not at his best right now. So, nice touch.
- I'm fine with Jaune immediately treating the guard as a threat they need to escape. He's been described to us as the thinker since the beginning, and he should know enough to realise that their situation with Ironwood might now be precarious, given what they heard from Ruby and the fact the message got cut off. It seems very sensible for Jaune to assume Ironwood's soldiers are a threat until they're told otherwise.
- The smoke trails from Cinder's Grimm arm from where Winter cuts her stick around for a short while. It's a nice touch.
- Winter riding into battle on the back of a summoned Manticore is the sight I never knew I needed to see until now.
- It actually took me a moment to realise it. I initially thought that there was an animation error because 'Nora' grabbed Oscar around the face with her left hand, and when we see the full view of them, she seems to have her right hand clamped over his face. It took me a moment to see the sheen and realise we were looking at their mirrored reflection. Her right hand is low, exactly where we'd expect it to be for having grabbed the Relic, and then we never see that hand as she walks away. It's kept to her right-hand side, which isn't visible in the mirror. It's nicely done.
- I don't mind the fact that Oscar doesn't immediately regain his feet when he falls to the ground and can't do much about Neo at that point. He's been portrayed as heavily exhausted and frankly did well to dodge the strike at all. A massive improvement from Jaune failing to regain his feet after nicking Cinder's face-mask in the battle of Haven.
- The special effects when Fria goes full Maiden on Cinder. This is a Maiden in her dying moments, her swansong. Imagine what she was like at full health with all those decades of experience behind her? Then remember this is only one fifth of the power Ozma used to wield — and which Salem still wields (as far as we know).
- I like the fact that Oscar felt he had to make one last attempt with Ironwood. He's the one who's bonded most with Ironwood throughout the volume and he doesn't know what transpired in the office with Team RWBY and Salem — he only knows that something awful happened that led to Ruby's aborted message.
- The conversation between Penny and Fria is brief, but it's enough to tell us that Fria actually knew about the plan to transfer the powers to Winter and that she had agreed to it — but dementia had made that knowledge fuzzy in her mind and Cinder attacking her made her lucid enough to remember she had this one last task to do. That's a lot to pack in, and I think it was done well.
- This is going to be a weird one to put in the like section because I don't like the idea of Penny being a Maiden. And yet I'm putting it in the Like folder. That's because it makes thematic sense for her Pinocchio associations (the Blue Fairy just made her a real girl) and because it raises interesting questions about the eligibility of Maidens based on self-identity and also the question of how genderless Aura is. I'm going to dump the rest of my thoughts in the predictions folder.
- The detail they put into Oscar's body language as he enters the Vault and walks towards Ironwood in terms of how they've made him stand on the lift and walk with the cane. It is so Ozpin. It's perfect. Even that calm, solemn expression on his face as the lift lands is Ozpin's. All he's missing are the glasses.
- The way the line between Oscar and Ozpin is so blurred. It's not just the body language. It's what he says and how he emotes. If there's one thing they've handled well this volume and, especially in this scene, it's Oscar's steady transformation into something more than just Oscar... but without removing Oscar himself. I really do like this scene, and it's their handling of Oscar that sells it for me.
- The acknowledgement that holding the cane soothes him when he's afraid is a really good nugget to drop because it doesn't just tell us a lot about Oscar, and set up behaviour for Oscar's future — it tells us a lot about Ozpin, too. Oscar's been very serene and solemn in an Ozpin-like way, but the fact he's holding the staff means that he's scared — much more scared than he's showing. And he's admitting that to Ironwood and trying to bond with him over it (hence, putting away the cane). Unfortunately, fear is exactly what Ironwood is trying to suppress and deny — so, while Oscar knows this, he still can't get through to Ironwood they way all of them need someone to. It's just a really good scene all round.
- Oscar's argument about the importance of not abandoning Mantle is far better than Team RWBY's was. Theirs was an idealistic and deeply naive 'Huntsmen have to protect the people! We don't have a plan for saving anyone, but you need to do it our way anyway!' argument. It's not a 'big picture' argument any more than Ironwood's was. Oscar, however, is actually making a 'big picture' argument. He's pointing out to Ironwood what the consequences for Ironwood's own plan will be if he abandons Mantle: how can Atlas ever unite Remnant if Remnant has proof that Atlas just abandons cities to die to protect itself? That's how Ironwood's decision will be perceived by people all over the world. It doesn't provide a solution to the problem of how to protect both cities with an exhausted army, but it does point out how Ironwood is destroying his own plan for Remnant by making this decision. Of course, the flaw is that he wasn't in Ironwood's office, so he doesn't know what happened and therefore how drastically Ironwood's mentality and planning has shifted since they last spoke, but it's a fundamentally better position to try and argue than Team RWBY ever attempted — even if it did fail abysmally.
- Oscar's line 'Then you're as dangerous as she is, James' is so wonderfully Ozpin that it's just awesome. And Ironwood's response is so perfectly full-circle from his introduction into the show: in V2, he enters Ozpin's territory and Ozpin greets him with the term 'General'. Ironwood tells him to drop the formality between friends and call him 'James'. Now they're in Ironwood's territory, and he's rescinding the informality and the friendship.
- And nothing says 'resolve' like not even hesitating to kill a fourteen-year-old boy who's said a few things you don't want to hear. Ironwood knows he's not killing Ozpin, that Ozpin will just reincarnate somewhere else. He's just killing the kid who keeps disagreeing with him. What I like here is the consistency of his characterisation: he's made his decision to sacrifice anyone and anything to achieve his plan, and he's made his decision on what his plan is going to be. So, now, he's putting his money where his mouth is. He's right. He's not turning into Leo. He's turning into something worse.
- I prefer Cinder when she's creative, dangerous and on the edge, which she spends a lot of this episode being: in control, but we can see how close to madness she is. After seeing Penny with Fria, however, she descends into full-blown crazy. While I'm not a huge fan, I appreciate the obvious allusions to Tyrian's own breakdown when he reported his failure to Salem: Cinder watched in utter horror as he hacked a Grimm to pieces. Here, Cinder is hacking away at Winter in the same way, effectively becoming what so terrified her in V4.
- The look on Oscar's face as he's falling. He's just given up completely. If there's one thing Ozpin does for him here, it's jolt him into action. Beyond that... It's Oscar himself who does the rest.
- If nothing else, the way the scenes flip between Penny and Oscar coming into their powers with that music playing is very atmospheric and I do like the feel of it.
- Ironwood is absolutely shaking when he gets Winter's text message, which is some really good animation — we can even see the scroll trembling because he's shaking so hard. I also like the fact that there's a message at the top of Ironwood's scroll stating that all communication between Ironwood and Winter is classified.
- I know it's a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers, but the way the red lightning gives us momentary flashes of its silhouette, the way it emerges from the clouds, is really nicely done. I wonder if they watched footage of whales emerging from deeper, darker waters into paler, lighter surface waters for their inspiration because the way it manifests does remind me of that. As well as how whales crest the surface of the water.
- We started the volume with a statue of a sperm whale in Pietro's Mantle office (a Pinocchio reference). And we end it with a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers (a WTF has CRWBY been smoking reference). I know it's a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers, but we were warned. Right there. In Pietro's office at the start of the volume.
- I still hate the fact that Neo's return has been coupled with her eye colour changes having entirely disappeared, along with her default eye colour setting being to match her hair. In V2, her eye colours opposed her hair colour (brown eye with pink hair and pink eye with brown hair), and constantly changed during her fight with Yang. We've never see her eyes switch around since she's returned except for when she's used her black hair and green-eyed form. I'd like to know the reason for this because it takes something away from her — and her default form definitely looks better when her eyes are in opposition to her hair. Anyway, I grumbled about this in V6, too, and hoped it would grow on me. It hasn't.
- The team working in Team JNR isn't good at all. I really want the show to address this. It seems to be a deliberate choice because the show us some really good team-work with other fights, but it's starting to make Team JNR look really behind the curve and doesn't make sense when its leader is supposed to have an aptitude for strategy.
- I could do without all of Cinder's screaming.
- I'm not a fan of Penny's eye fire. Even though it's obviously her colour scheme, it's a bit too 'radioactive green' for my liking. Perhaps it will grow on me.
- Even though we know Ruby and Weiss are heading towards the Winter Maiden, their appearance really annoyed me. It's the timing. I was just getting into the flow of Oscar and Penny being interlaced with that music building... the timing feels wrong to me.
- Ruby auto-silvers Cinder, and Cinder has to flee. This is making Cinder an ineffective, pointless adversary. She's failing to obtain any other Maiden powers, she has to flee Ruby every time Ruby's eyes start flashing, and we keep getting no back story on her... at this stage, what's the point? Unless Cinder learns to be cunning and take Ruby down in a more underhand way, there's no point to this enmity. And, if Cinder can't obtain any further Maiden powers, there's no further point to her from that perspective. And if we don't have any back story to put her current behaviour into context, what's the point there as well? So, unless they're going to give Cinder a big victory and some back story in V8, I don't see any further point in having her around as a villain.
- I was very tired of the automatic response of characters to concern about others to be to stretch out their (normally right) hands by the end of V3. I'm beyond tired of it now.
- We get teased with what the cane is capable of and that it seems to have a mental link with Ozma/Oscar... but not much solid information. Hopefully, this is the start of something for V8 but, otherwise, a little frustrating.
- Giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers. That is all.
- Watts is sat next to a nice, giant window, just perfect for the ship that rescued Tyrian to rescue him — it'll be Hazel, Emerald, Mercury (and Tyrian) on board.
- And there's the obvious situation to come of how the heroes will handle Ozpin being back — whenever Oscar reunites with them, that is. We'll have to see if the separation of Oscar from the others at the end of this volume has an intended purpose for the early stages of V8, or whether he'll join back up with them very quickly.
- Winter summoned that Manticore while falling, which suggests that she's much faster at summoning than Weiss is, even though Weiss is clearly faster at it now than she used to be in Volume 5. But this will probably be an indication of how fast Weiss will eventually be able to get.
- Also, Weiss has a promise to her mother to keep. I assume there's going to be the Whitley issue in V8.
- Penny becoming the Winter Maiden raises some interesting points, that may be partially prediction and partially speculation:
- Firstly, this is obviously a way to address the fact that the Blue Fairy made Pinocchio a real boy. We're not going to get that in this show, but we get the next best thing: the blue-themed mage (the Winter Maiden) giving her power, her Aura, the magic, to Penny. Penny is now, to all intents and purposes a 'real' girl. She almost certainly has a full Aura now that is entirely her own. Pietro no longer has to sacrifice his own Aura to maintain and rebuild her. What we will need to see is whether her technology can handle prolonged use of the Maiden magic or whether the power will cause compatibility issues over time. If it does, I would expect Weiss to be the next candidate on the basis of the snuggle-fest that occurred at the end of this episode, which does seem to be setting up some Penny/Weiss bonding. That said, for Penny to pass on the Maiden power undoes the Pinocchio parallel unless Penny really is doomed to die forever.
- Secondly, my primary issue with the theory that Penny would become a Maiden was because her Aura came from a man. Now, revisiting this, the obvious implication here is that Aura is genderless: it is a factor of being a living thing and therefore the existence of gender is irrelevant. However, Penny technically doesn't have a biological sex because she's not biological. She's obviously female and identifies as female. But that is about identity. And that brings us to gender identity. If the Maiden power can be separated from biological sex (and we already know it has been because it once belonged to a man who gave it to four sisters and it has remained with females ever since, while still behaving in accordance with that man's reincarnation process), then the key may be that the Maiden self-identifies as female. That allows for transgender Maidens and widens the scope of who is eligible to be a Maiden beyond 'born biologically female and being below a certain age'. That's much more interesting.
- I may have talked myself into liking Penny as the Winter Maiden. Colour me on board.
- Oscar's clearly in for a level-up in V8 and, at the moment, benefits from the fact that Ironwood thinks he's dead. I'm guessing that we're going to have to wait until V8 for Oscar to discover his Semblance. But it does now look promising that we'll learn at least a little bit more about his Oz-power and his cane by the end of the Atlas Arc, on top of his Semblance. At the moment, the cane might be storing memories, Semblances and Aura from every previous host. The cane engulfed Oscar's entire body in golden light, and he used the bubble shield after his Aura was broken — yet it looked like Aura; and, while he seemed to need the cane's help for the first bubble shield, the second one was entirely him. So, the cane may be able to swap in Aura and Semblance. He's run out of his, so he's borrowing a previous host's. If so, then Velvet's weapon is actually a form of foreshadowing for what the cane can do. The difference being that Velvet's is a one-shot, but she can take pictures of any weapon she comes across. The cane can be used as necessary, but can only store the abilities of Ozma's hosts. And, while Velvet's must be rebuilt through conscious action, the key to the cane is that it's always with Ozma. There appears to be a mental link to it, and we've heard Oscar comment a few times on how the cane makes him feel. So, like weapons in Anime and Manga, and like some weapon magical weapons in High Fantasy settings, the cane 'soaks up' the Aura and Semblance of the host it's with over time via proximity and attuning, becoming more powerful the longer it remains with each host, and becoming more powerful through time as it's passed from host to host. I also don't think it's the only thing it can do because we still don't know how it's linked to Ozma's staff yet either. But I reiterate a point I've made a lot of times before: Ozpin was holding back against Cinder and the more Oscar learns about his inheritance and his abilities, the more we'll see just how much Ozpin was holding back.
- Oscar has effectively created a secret entrance to the Vault of the Winter Maiden right at the bottom of Atlas's underbelly. They don't need to fly up to Atlas itself now. They can get into the Vault from the very bottom by flying up the shaft that Oscar fell through. And, ignoring the fact that Maidens can fly, who can fly even without Maiden powers?
- Innate Flight: Penny. I remain ever-suspicious about Oscar. And I'll put Qrow here, even though he's already in Atlas.
- Via Semblances: Weiss, Ruby.
- Via weapons: Nora. Potentially Jaune using Gravity Dust. Potentially Yang, but her weapons might be far too noisy.
- Because Ninjas: Blake, Ren.
- Left over: Technically Oscar, Jaune, Yang, Blake and Ren, but I've managed to insert them into places because... why not? And Weiss can use her Semblance to carry others anyway, and Penny can carry at least one, possibly two, people.
- Pietro and Penny could be in a bit of trouble. In the original story, a giant dogfish lays waste to the area for several days before Geppetto is swallowed. Pinocchio is trying to escape his own misfortunes and ignores the advice of the Fairy with Turquoise Hair, which gets him swallowed by the dogfish. He's reunited with Geppetto (who's been in there for years by that point) and they escape because the dogfish is asthmatic and sleeps with its mouth open. In the Disney version, Geppetto's swallowed by a giant whale (Monstro) while trying to rescue Pinocchio. Pinocchio gets swallowed and rescues Geppetto from the whale's throat. Guess who just came into town with a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers right when Penny becomes the Winter Maiden? V8 does not bode well for Pietro.
- Ren and Nora's story clearly hasn't finished. I do still think Ren's Semblance is turning him empathic and no-one's really understanding that yet because they are under a lot of pressure, Ren is very uncommunicative about his feelings anyway, and in stories where characters become empathic, it often starts manifesting like they're building up to some kind of nervous breakdown from the pressure of everyone's emotions around them and their own inside them.
- Qrow and Robyn look like they'll be bonding in V8, initially over Clover but more widely over how to protect the people. I'm expecting Qrow to initially be blamed for Clover's death. And they've obviously got the problem of trying to protect Mantle. I'm also expecting his power to possibly begin developing a 'good luck' aspect — possibly towards the end of V8. Mostly, I want to see if he falls back to alcohol if they get out of prison, or whether he manages to stay teetotal. Emotional stress is his biggest drinking trigger.
- Ace-Ops is going to be smarting from their defeat and upset over Clover. Marrow's conflicting loyalties will probably be a thing in V8, and will probably end up resolved in favour of the heroes — but not initially, especially given the Clover issue (he seemed to look up to Clover). I think Marrow will be a late convert to the heroes, as a result. Either way, Clover asked early in V7 what they'd do without him. V8 is probably going to show us that they do very badly without him — as their fight Team RWBY has already indicated.
- Given that Cinder has the Relic of Knowledge, she could deliver it to Salem. She could ask a question of it herself, if she has any idea how to use it. Using up the last question would really endear her to Salem, I'm sure. I'm more expecting her to deliver it to Salem.
- Neo's issues with Cinder will continue to build. I do still believe she's only with Cinder until she can figure out how to defeat Cinder, given their power differences.
- Ruby has now seen that Cinder has a Grimm arm. The subject of Cinder's arm and eyepatch really needs to crop up because Ruby is still clueless that Cinder's appearance is connected to what she did to Cinder at Beacon. This is important because it's the key to Cinder having Maiden power at all. While Ruby can reasonably assume the Wyvern is why her power activated at Beacon, it wouldn't explain why Cinder was injured. But Ruby doesn't even know she injured Cinder — because, every time Cinder and Ruby come face to face, something gets in the way of them exchanging any information (including Ruby's own power). At this stage, Ruby doesn't even know Cinder has a significant grudge against her. This really does need to start being dealt with in V8, otherwise there's no point to Cinder staying in the story at all.
- On the subject of Cinder, and the thought I had earlier about her hunger reference in the V3 flashback. I wonder if the reason Cinder's destabilising over the issue of absorbing Maiden powers is connected to the possibility the Grimm is taking her over. Perhaps the reason Cinder's becoming so crazy and obsessive and desperate is a sign that she's losing her rational mind to the darker urges of the Grimm she absorbed to help her take Amber's power, and the Grimm arm she has that allows her to absorb further power.
- Ironwood, of course, has the problem that he has no Maiden power so can't raise Atlas. That said, I do not believe the staff is actually inside the Vault chamber.
- Even though that's what Ironwood claimed to Oscar in Episode 7, he said that, then immediately followed it with the comment that he was hoping to jog some memories. My theory is that he was testing Oscar and Ozpin — he wanted Ozpin to catch him in a lie that Oscar won't know is a lie, but it didn't work. That would be the in-universe reason for Ironwood saying something that results in both the heroes and audience being mislead (believing the staff is inside the chamber when it's really not) and setting up a twist reveal later on down the road.
- After Salem dissipated from Ironwood's office, Ironwood told Weiss that he's already sent Winter to collect the Maiden power. He states (to quote exactly) 'the staff and the lamp have to be locked away'. We knew the lamp was out in the open and needed to be locked away, but the staff? Ironwood's comment basically tells us that his comment to Oscar a couple of episodes previously was a lie.
- To be honest, I would not expect the staff to be in the chamber if it's powering the city. The chamber seems to be a lock-down. I would not expect the staff to be powering Atlas from inside the chamber, especially since the chambers don't even seem to be located anywhere on Remnant — they seem to located in the Between Realms void that Ozma and the God of Light were in. There's no way the staff will be powering Atlas from there.
- Wherever the location is, it will be secret, known to only a very few people: my guess is that only Ironwood and Winter know, that not even Ace-Ops and Penny know where the staff really is. Therefore, on the heroes side, only one person will know where the staff is really located: Ozpin. I believe this is the significance of Oscar's final scene of this volume, where he asks Ozpin how do they save Atlas.
- The potential twist is if Ironwood's paranoia covered more than just security upgrades — whether it included moving the location of the staff as well. If so, then Ozpin would be directing the heroes to the room his predecessor set up only to find it empty and the staff gone because Ironwood's moved it elsewhere. However, I suspect the staff isn't so easy to move without de-powering it (landing Atlas) first, so it should be in whatever location Ozpin expects it to be. The question is, how well is it guarded and how easy is it to reach.
- Which brings us to location. During Episode 7, Ironwood tells Oscar about his helplessness in Beacon, and he's staring at the terminal while do that. The terminal lists only four stops, and the numbers aren't in sequence, so I speculated at the time that these four locations were probably plot important. The terminal shows the following: Terminal 1 (near the ground floor of Atlas Academy, but still below; labelled B1, B probably stands for Basement); Terminal 4 (half-way down the shaft, called B4); Terminal 7 (just above the top of the circular base to the diagram, called B7); Terminal 8 (the last terminal, B8, in the centre of the circular base, and clearly identified as the location they're currently in — so the circular base is the Vault, and Terminal 7 is just above the Vault ceiling). In between B1 and B4 is an unlabelled line. There's another one between B4 and B7. The staff is likely to be on either B1, B4 or B7, or one of the two unlabelled lines (if they represent floors the lift officially doesn't go to).
- Salem honestly looks like she's bringing the Domain of Darkness with her — obviously, she hasn't, but it's almost like she's produced a fraction of it in terms of what the giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers looks like overall. I'm wondering if we're going to see the landscape gradually becoming more 'Domain of Darkness' as V8 progresses, until the sky remains dark all the time and the entire place starts taking on the Domain's character. It's certainly a good way of devastating the moral of the kingdom's inhabitants. But it also crosses my mind that, if she was 'bound' to the Domain of Darkness, then dragging a chunk of it along with her may be a loophole to that 'curse'.
- Lastly, Salem's here. With a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers. It looks big enough to eat Atlas in a couple of bites. There is an enormous army of winged Grimm with her. Ironwood's already told us his army's exhausted from evacuating Mantle (which still hasn't finished). I'm therefore not entirely sure what Salem's plan is here. Sit there and let the people turn on her? Sit there while her Grimm army swarms Atlas? At the moment, the size of her army (both numerically and otherwise) seems a bit overwhelming for what Ironwood's been claiming is the current state of Atlas. Atlas does appear to have pillars that I've been calling hard light generators, and I'm assuming there's a shield over the city that will become visible when the attacks begin. So, does that mean her army is so numerically huge because she's anticipating most of it will be lost ramming the barrier until it finally goes down? It's rather hard to see how long this confrontation will last in terms of volume length, but the thing that makes the most sense to me is that Atlas's technological defences (which we haven't seen, but which has been hinted at in places) are going to be so phenomenal that Salem's expecting to take very heavy losses in terms of Grimm fatalities, hence the numerical size of her army. If so, then V8 becomes a siege volume, which is why we were told about Atlas having a self-contained environment and the ability to sustain itself for at least a while. If so, that hole Oscar made at the bottom of the city is going to become rather important — potentially for the villains as well as the heroes.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Feb 8th 2020 at 7:04:39 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.Cinder killed the strongest Huntress in the Vale region, permanently destroyed one of the four Academies, and crippled world wide communication that the heroes still have no way to fix months later.
Yes, she lost her eye and arm, but by all accounts, she, and by extension Salem, very much won at Beacon.
It's either Aura colour or eye colour. I lean towards Aura as well.
- Amber had an 'amber' Aura and darker amber eye colour. Her eye-fire looked like natural fire, which is closer to her Aura in colour than her eyes.
- Cinder has a golden Aura and golden eyes (the Aura is a bit red-tinted). Her eye-fire changed between V3 and V5, but is now a red-tinted gold that's slightly more in line with her Aura than her eyes (there's not a huge difference between her eyes and Aura).
- Raven has red eyes and a red Aura. Her eye-fire is red.
- Fria has deep blue eyes and an ice-blue Aura. Her eye-fire is the same colour as her Aura, but not her eyes. In fact, the eye-fire was paling down her eyes to her Aura colour.
- Penny has green eyes and green eye-fire. We've never seen her manifest an Aura to know what colour she'd have, but Pietro's was green and Fria's ice-blue.
I suspect that, in V3, the eye-fire was originally conceived as natural-looking fire. Cinder's is the same as Amber's in that volume, and Amber's eye-fire doesn't fit massively well with her eye colour and Aura colour (which look 'browner' than the eye-fire). We also don't see the eye-fire consistently appear during Cinder's use of the power in either V3 or V4.
From V5, Cinder's eye-fire is a much redder-tinged form of natural fire than it was in V3 and it's also since V5 that they've been consistent in how they use the eye-fire. I suspect that the rules for Maiden eye-fire were bedded down for V5 because the Raven twist needed it. Amber and Cinder's themes let them get away with it (in terms of colour) prior to V5, so the glaring issue is the inconsistency with which the eye-fire manifests when the Maiden power is being used — which really only affects the very end of V3 and the very end of V4. I suspect Amber's eye-fire would look a bit different in post-V5 Maya, too.
It's therefore Fria that's the primary key to whether the eye-fire is based on eye colour or Aura colour because she's the only Maiden we've seen so far with eye colour and Aura colour that are drastically different to each other (but not the only character, however, since most of the heroes have that discrepancy).
We'll have to see what colour Aura Penny will generate. Given her colour scheme, it should be green. However, it could be ice-blue if she's inherited Fria's. That said, if the point is for her to be a 'real girl' who can now generate her own Aura instead of using someone else's, then I will expect Penny's Aura to be the same green as her eye-fire instead of either Pietro's colour or Fria's.
Actually, I genuinely wasn't sure this post was worth reading! But, hey. Since you asked, have a freebie giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers regardless. Enjoy!
Edited by Wyldchyld on Feb 8th 2020 at 10:56:47 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.Literally who?
Oi, Wyldchyld! I'm expecting to see "giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers" in your posts here too, not just the FIRST thread. Although its in your signature now so I guess that can cover it as needed.
Edited by TheAirman on Feb 8th 2020 at 4:20:00 AM
PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/TheyOkey-dokey, both threads it is then.
Prepare yourselves. For you will never be allowed to forget about the existence of giant flying sperm whales with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers.
Is this the point where I 'mwa-ha-ha' everyone?
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.I presume they're talking about Amber, which is... questionable, considering we only saw her once, and have no real reason to believe she's the most powerful Huntress in Vale. And Cinder had help with that.
And every other victory she's had also came accompanied by some kind of major setback or humiliation, so yeah. Still see no reason to see her as any kind of threat.
I assumed Pyrrha, although I would argue that she wouldn't count as she's still a student. Glynda would probably have been the most powerful Huntress in the area.
EDIT: ![]()
Setback as it was to her, Cinder still killed Ozpin (temporarily) and Pyrrha (less temporarily). Her getting crippled afterwards would be no comfort to the latter.
Edited by Shaoken on Feb 8th 2020 at 10:08:48 PM
One thing that bothers me is how certain people claim that ozpin had every reason to trust the group they seem to be forgetting that while we know they wont side with salem etc because they are the protagonists ozpin doesn’t know he isn’t the audience watching above ( plus they proved him right considering how they reacted to Salem’s immortality not to mention qrow ) He was just betrayed by lion heart who was one of his friends the people he trusted the most not to mention he had experiences to know telling people his secrets are dangerous like Salem’s immortality could cause a loss of morale , hope , panic , etc ) and jinns questions lie what if they decided to try and use it and waste a question or let the information leak. It makes complete sense for oz. not to fully trust rwby jnpr considering he hardly spent time with them the idea that. Fighting with him should have earned his trust is ridiculous.
Especially when people try to pretend that its different from the groups keeping Salem’s immortality from ironwood who was a member of ozpin inner circle for years if you say qrow deserved to know then you have to extend that to ironwood and don’t give me but mantle ( ironwoods increase in security of mantle was completely justified he had good reasons a lot of the times when they imply ironwood is doing a questionable thing we are given a reason that justifies it like the increase in security in mantle we saw in the first ep Like the fact that he needs materials. . or gives a good reason like ironwood taking resources from mantle he needs that for amity arena. Which rwby jnpr support if they had such a problem with taking resources from mantle they should have told him Salem’s immortal that the thing that he wants amity arena for wont work Because she cant die . So if you try to use that a strike against ironwood I would say rwby and jnpr are more to blame .
( ironwood shooting Oscar is ooc of him (I mean Oscar wasn’t even trying to fight Oscar ) ) ( don’t give me the if you were one of my men I would have you shot comment to qrow last time I checked qrow also said that if he had to Work with him he would shoot himself and we know that wasn’t a serious comment and remember how when ironwood immediately thought qrow was going to attack him he went for a block with his gun turning his gun around ( because he didnt want to hurt qrow . ) (Plus ironwood cares about people ( people try t goo but he was willing to abandon mantle ( when to ironwood its either stay with mantle and everyone dies or leave and be able to save who he cans A morally grey choice)
Ironwood had shown them trust from the start letting them in on confidential info ( amity arena etc ) but they. Have not given him a reason to trust them ( and actually leaked confidential info and they were lucky that it turned out well ( telling Robyn
https://itsclydebitches.tumblr.com/post/190723652205/i-hate-the-copy-and-pasted-argument-salems-theme

It's also good to keep in mind that Tyrian is, on some level, sadistic. He'd likely only use his Semblance if its the more pragmatic option like when attacking Fiona and Clover, but if he has the option, he will indulge in his sadism. Just look at how easily he dances around RNJR, he was toying with them. And when he slashed Qrow, he was relishing in doing so, its just doing that is what allowed Ruby to lop off his stinger. Even his killing Clover with Harbinger is laced with sadism, such as saying "I don't think your friend is going to make it." after having just run him through. That's one of the advantages he has over Cinder in regards to sadism. Cinder will indulge her sadistic tendencies regardless of the circumstances, even if doing so impedes her goal, causing her to grasp the Villain Ball. Tyrian meanwhile is willing to forego his sadism for the sake of the mission. Definitely helps that the one time he did act like Cinder and overindulged, it cost him his stinger.
Edited by RebelFalcon on Feb 7th 2020 at 6:56:58 AM
Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.