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Thebrawlbro Since: Aug, 2013
#56476: Nov 6th 2018 at 7:15:45 AM

My guess is for Ozpin, it was a matter of risk vs reward. He needed to get the relic to Atlas as soon as possible. The fastest way there is through public transportation. He probably beleived that using the train was worth the risk of it being attacked and some innocents being put in danger. Obviously, since the rest of the team probably wouldn’t agree to that, he decided it best to not tell them of the risk.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#56477: Nov 6th 2018 at 7:17:44 AM

I'd love it if they told us why they needed to get the relic to Atlas. But that'd require Ozpin to actually explains things and not be a secretive dick. I swear the dude gets off on this.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#56478: Nov 6th 2018 at 7:25:40 AM

  • Yang: Yeah, well, GREAT JOB THERE ASSHOLE. Now we're stranded in the asscrack of the woods and forced to trudge through snow.
  • Ozpin: Correction. We are stranded in the asscrack of the woods 60% of the way to Atlas and forced to trudge through only 40% of the snow between our originating point and final destination.

EDIT:

  • Yang: PEOPLE COULD HAVE DIED.
  • Ozpin: There were capable trained Huntsmen and Huntresses onboard that train.
  • Yang: Those guys were MORONS.
  • Ozpin: I was not talking about them.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 6th 2018 at 8:29:19 AM

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Darthwyn leader of Inherit from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
leader of Inherit
#56479: Nov 6th 2018 at 7:39:01 AM

I'm going to speculate that Oz probably got stabbed in the back a few times or picked the wrong people to trust and as a result probably has issues with giving information that he thinks is on a need to know basis.

"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - Dorthy
Rytex Your Friend on the Other Side from Here, There, Everywhere (Ancient one) Relationship Status: Married to the music
Your Friend on the Other Side
#56480: Nov 6th 2018 at 8:00:16 AM

Especially so now that Lionheart went over.

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gjjones Musician/Composer from South Wales, New York Since: Jul, 2016
Musician/Composer
#56481: Nov 6th 2018 at 8:18:45 AM

In "Haven's Fate", when Yang harshly calls out Raven for her despicable actions and her arrogance, would that count as a potential Break the Haughty trope?

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#56482: Nov 6th 2018 at 11:55:23 AM

I would say no. Yang doesn't break Raven. She just browbeats her into ragequitting an argument.

Break the Haughty requires a much higher degree of life-shattering psychological devastation. If Yang had murdered Raven's entire tribe, burned her home to the ground, and then murdered Yang in front of her, then we might be onto something.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 6th 2018 at 12:57:48 PM

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TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
#56483: Nov 6th 2018 at 12:03:27 PM

If Yang murdered Yang eh? I wonder how that'd go down tongue

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#56484: Nov 6th 2018 at 12:11:26 PM

Yeah, I briefly considered changing the first Yang to Cinder for that example but decided that keeping it as Yang was funnier.

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Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#56485: Nov 6th 2018 at 12:44:53 PM

I mean, if there is any maternal feelings left in Raven then seeing her daughter punch her own head off would probably have a negative impact on her psyche.

Ryno_v Since: Dec, 2017
#56486: Nov 6th 2018 at 3:12:27 PM

[up][up]Would that be murder, suicide or a murder-suicide?

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#56487: Nov 6th 2018 at 3:25:47 PM

Now, placing all that together with the possibility of Maria being one of the Maidens, my theory is: wild mass guessPenny is an attempt at transferring the Maiden powers to an artificial, immortal shell, and the piece of Maiden contained within Penny was Maria's, who's therefore partially responsible for bringing her to life.wild mass guess

Too outlandish? I know there's nothing to base the theory off of other than Maria's color scheme, but the idea seemed fun in my head.

While I don't think Maria is directly connected to Penny as per your theory, I do think there's a link between them in terms of technology. I'm still theorising that Maria can see or 'comprehend' Auras/Souls, and her goggles either allow or enhance it. As a result of the goggles being useful in this way, it encouraged the research into 'capturing' Aura and souls via technology which ultimately led to Penny.

I do think that she can 'see' that there's something odd with Ruby, Oscar and the Relic, hence her interest. And, if she is silver-eyed herself, then seeing Ruby's eyes alone might be the reason why she decided to gatecrash the party (never mind any theories about Auras, Souls and Relics).

If the Relic acts as a giant Grimm magnet, why weren't the Grimm constantly swarming Haven during the two weeks they were just chilling there? I can imagine that the Vaults use some sort of magic to block the signal but, as far as we know, it wasn't in the Vault for those two weeks.

Well, I've speculating for some time that the Relics would be Grimm-magnets, especially given the fact Salem wants the Relics and appears to command the Grimm, so I've had a while to speculate about what I think the range of the attraction would be if that did turn out to be the case. I do think that the Relic Chambers weren't just about protecting the Relics from the world, but also to protect the world from the Relics.

My guess is that there might be a range on the attraction, and I have two theories about that range:

  1. It's not ridiculously large (it might miles, but it wouldn't be hundreds of miles).
  2. The range is impacted by the strength of the Aura of the one who is carrying it/attuned to it/communicating with it (yes, I still think the Relic can be communicated with even if I'm probably wrong about Maria being the manifestation of the Relic; I do expect some kind of manifestation and that the Relic will be a double-edged sword, imparting necessary knowledge but also imparting too much knowledge — knowledge that causes trouble (either for individuals or the entire group) either because it shouldn't be shared or because it's shared before people are ready/equipped to handle it).

So, as far as the train is concerned, it's not that the Relic would have attracted Grimm to the train, but once the Grimm are there, they're in proximity and therefore would be attracted enough for the Ren plan to fail.

That might explain why Ozpin appeared so cavalier about taking it on a packed train; as long as they keep moving, the Relic itself won't attract Grimm from across enormous distances — the problem starts when they're in the same vicinity as Grimm. That's still putting innocent humans at risk, but it's also not as drastic as it initially seems.

That's how I'm viewing it for now, at least until we get more information.

Yeah it seen he is wearing a hooded top which it would draw the edgelord more to him, and stalking to bring bad is mojo?....

Of course it depends on whether what she saw was real or an hallucination. If it was an hallucination, it then depends on whether it's solely unresolved issues or the proximity of the Relic bringing out inner selves/the inner heart of people. I say that because I still think touching the Relic of Knowledge is what made Yang burst into tears in the Relic chamber — the Relic brought to the surface how she was feeling about her mother.

I'd love it if they told us why they needed to get the relic to Atlas. But that'd require Ozpin to actually explains things and not be a secretive dick. I swear the dude gets off on this.

Eh, I get the impression that we've got a chicken-and-egg scenario going on with Ozpin. Remember, the Maidens used to be common knowledge. The Story of the Seasons indicated that (within the setting of the tale) the concept of wizards and living long lifespans may not have been unusual. We know that a decision was made in the past to make the Maidens secret and let them fade into legend, and we can guess that it was Ozpin who made that decision.

What I'm saying is that I won't be surprised if Ozpin has tried the whole 'share everything from the outset' route in the past and had it blow up in his face. For example, by people being unable to handle the burden of the truth and either getting themselves killed through rashness born of fear or impulsiveness (which seems to be how Ironwood handles his fear), walking away like Raven did (who has indicated she learned too much), running away like the previous Spring Maiden did (couldn't handle the responsibility), or giving in to their fear (akin to Leo, whose rationale is somewhat similar to Roman's — both of them took a 'can't beat 'em so better join 'em' position, albeit for different reasons).

As I've said before, my inspiration for this comes from stories I've read in the past where a past mentor figure revealed too much and it caused the heroes to fail, so the current mentor — having learned from that past disaster — goes too far the other way and becomes a secretive knowledge-hoarder, which ends up making them appear untrustworthy and manipulative (which they effectively are). The example I always use of this would be The Sword of Shannara Trilogy, where Bremen made the mistake and Allanon was the one who over-compensated in the other direction when it came his turn to try.

After all, in earlier volumes Ozpin was constantly concerned with causing widespread panic and bringing an army of Grimm down on them. I get the impression that his concern is based on personal experience. So, not only do I think Ozpin's been through the 'share everything' route and had it blow up in his face, but I'm also willing to bet he's been through the Ironwood route, too (gung-ho, proactive, dick-swinging aggressive solutions) — and that's also blown up in his face. We certainly have one example of impulsiveness in his past — gifting the four sisters. Even if he had the plan to give his magic to someone for a while, it does sound like he decided on those four specifically in only a very short period of time, so that choice may have been impulsive. (I personally think he hadn't planned such a thing for a long time, but was instead in a pit of despair, seeing no way forward, and these four sisters turn up and give him a 'brilliant' idea).

So, he's become increasingly cautious over time, increasingly protective of knowledge, and increasingly likely to only spoon-feed information in the hopes of keeping allies for as long as possible in an attempt to minimise outrage, betrayal and abandonment.

But, because he's going too far down this road, this very attempt is leading to outrage, betrayal and abandonment. Hence the chicken-and-egg thinking.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Nov 6th 2018 at 11:39:09 AM

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Tharkun140 The Arch-Douchebag Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
The Arch-Douchebag
#56488: Nov 7th 2018 at 11:10:52 AM

Can I add/modify examples based on the manga anthology? It seems to be sorta canon, but I don't think anybody has troped it as of yet.

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Slater130 Since: Jun, 2013
#56489: Nov 7th 2018 at 1:09:01 PM

The manga anthology has stuff thats explicitly non canon fan fun.

Unless Miles or Kerry explicitly comes out with something like they did with Scarlet saying "Thats canon" dont trope it.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#56490: Nov 7th 2018 at 1:10:06 PM

I would say no. Yang doesn't break Raven. She just browbeats her into ragequitting an argument.
I don't get your logic. Yang clearly broke Raven by pointing out the logical flaws in the latter's plan for protecting herself and her tribe from Salem as well as her rationale for other morally dubious/untenable actions (e.g. abandoning Ozpin and Team STRQ, or foisting her own baby daughter on her lover and never involving herself in said daughter's life in any way for 17 years), flaws that not only will deny her the achievement of her intended goal, but actually make things even worse for her, and ultimately forced Raven to confront the fact that all of her decisions that she claims she made out of the whole "the strong survive, the weak die" BS were actually made out of cowardice.

Edited by MarqFJA on Nov 7th 2018 at 12:14:32 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#56491: Nov 7th 2018 at 2:15:42 PM

I think that's partially the case. My interpretation is that the reason Raven broke down in the end isn't simply because of cowardice.

I do believe she genuinely does love her daughter. We still don't the reason why she left, but I don't think it's because she didn't love Taiyang and Yang.

So, what we had was Raven's cowardice exposed in a way Raven could no longer ignore, and Yang willing to step right in to a level of danger that could get her killed. And, even knowing that her daughter could die, Raven still couldn't find the courage to make a decision that would protect her daughter.

I think that's what really broke her; she suddenly realised that she was more willing to put her daughter's life on the line than her own — not because she doesn't love her daughter, but because she's simply that scared of dying.

I'm fairly confident that we will eventually see her love for her daughter trump her fear of dying, and that will be her redemption arc. Raven's the sort of character that gets redeemed — usually by dying in a way that either saves the heroes or furthers their cause. The fact that Raven has the Spring Maiden powers does basically put a death flag on her head, so I'm expecting her to die eventually. The truth is, however, she's the kind of character that has death flags anyway, even without the Spring Maiden's powers.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#56492: Nov 7th 2018 at 2:22:23 PM

I actually agree with all of that except Raven being obviously destined to die. Death flags don't always guarantee inevitable character death.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#56493: Nov 7th 2018 at 2:41:55 PM

I just don't think Raven giving up and acquiescing to Yang's request after a "Reason You Suck" Speech really constitutes the character breaking. I have no doubt that five seconds after she walked out of that room, she was right back to business as usual.

Yang beat Raven via Talking the Monster to Death, sure, but to say she broke Raven? I think that's going to need some clear evidence that her words had a devastating impact on Raven's life going forward to support.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 7th 2018 at 3:42:44 AM

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CryoJNik He who holds fandoms in contempt from At the edge of tomorrow Since: Nov, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding
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#56494: Nov 7th 2018 at 2:47:35 PM

I don't see how that scenario could be pulled off without it seeming like a massive ass pull /OOC moment. Not saying this as a knock on the writers but as the situation as a whole to go from a selfish, callous bitch abandoning her own child, leading a crew of bandits and end up willing to kill your own brother among other things so you can save your own hide to actually being a parent to your grown up spawn at age 40 plus.

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gjjones Musician/Composer from South Wales, New York Since: Jul, 2016
Musician/Composer
#56495: Nov 7th 2018 at 2:50:31 PM

I’m predicting that Raven will probably get a Redemption Equals Death if and when she does die a la Burai, Dinobot, Naoto Takizawa or even Darth Vader of all characters after she reconciles with Taiyang, Qrow and/or Yang in a future volume.

Edited by gjjones on Nov 7th 2018 at 6:02:21 AM

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
Darthwyn leader of Inherit from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
leader of Inherit
#56496: Nov 7th 2018 at 2:54:05 PM

The question comes down to was Qrow all that different before he completely sided with Ozpin?

Both of them come from the same tribe with the same objective, but out of the two only one of them went back to the tribe of thieves and killers while the other stayed.

Honestly we really do need to know what led to Raven deciding that Salem is unstoppable along with what she was like with STRQ. That might help dictate the actual chances of Raven siding with the heroes or going back to what she was doing before.

"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - Dorthy
gjjones Musician/Composer from South Wales, New York Since: Jul, 2016
Musician/Composer
#56497: Nov 7th 2018 at 3:02:53 PM

I’m sure RT might address that in this volume or Volume 7.

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#56498: Nov 7th 2018 at 3:08:40 PM

I'd be surprised if they address it before either the final or penultimate seasons.

"This is the final and absolute truth about the ultimate evil that you must face" feels like an endgame reveal to me.

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RedRob Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: One Is The Loneliest Number
#56499: Nov 8th 2018 at 6:40:17 AM

So apparently dumb rwby has had several updates since I last checked it.

This one is my favorite. http://dumbrwby.tumblr.com/post/179582867859/eunnieverse-dumbwhitleyjpg-careful-weiss

And this is my second favorite. http://dumbrwby.tumblr.com/post/178728192619/eunnieverse-dumbruby02png-this-comic-is

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet Unless I grew it. In that case, throw it in the trash.
Tharkun140 The Arch-Douchebag Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
The Arch-Douchebag
#56500: Nov 8th 2018 at 8:35:19 AM

So, for some reason Ruby decided to only pick two out of four?

And since we are posting comics, here is the one I found amusing, especially after hearing some "Raven had very limited options" arguments: https://www.deviantart.com/lightning-in-my-hand/art/RWBY-How-Vol-05-Chap-11-Should-Have-Ended-724771326

Edited by Tharkun140 on Nov 8th 2018 at 5:45:58 PM

Apathy is Death. Worse than Death, because at least a rotting corpse feeds beasts and insects.

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