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JAF1970 Jonah Falcon from New York Since: Jan, 2001
Jonah Falcon
#1: Mar 3rd 2013 at 5:11:15 PM

I don't see any general discussion of Superman.

Which was the best Superman "death"? The Death Of Superman, What Ever Happened To The Man Of Tomorrow, or All Star Superman?

Jonah Falcon
AtomJames I need a drink Since: Apr, 2010
I need a drink
#2: Mar 3rd 2013 at 5:24:17 PM

Well you can't really call any of those a real death can you? tongue

In all seriousness though, easily All-Star Superman. Easily the greatest sacrifice any hero could ever have to make. Death of Superman in contrast felt incredibly cheap, to me at least. Superman dying in a smackdown? Thats not really all that heroic.

Theres sex and death and human grime in monochrome for one thin dime and at least the trains all run on time but they dont go anywhere.
FantasyLiver Since: Oct, 2012
#3: Mar 3rd 2013 at 7:51:42 PM

Not really a "death" but I really liked his defeat by Batman at the end of The Dark Knight Returns. Espescially when you know he really doesn't want to be fighting for such a warhawk government but he's doing it to save the other supers from a similar fate. When he winks at Carrie Kelly at the end; that was what sold it for me.

C0mraid from Here and there Since: Aug, 2010
#4: Mar 3rd 2013 at 8:41:59 PM

I've just read All Star Superman, brilliant stuff. I now like about 50% of the Morrison stuff I've read, though I'm still stood on New X-Men being bad.

I've also recently thought that the Death of Superman story might have worked better if he'd lost his powers instead of died. The world could perhaps believe Superman dead, but either way you get Clark adjusting to life without the cape andthe various replacements trying to take the mantle.

Am I a good man or a bad man?
Robbery Since: Jul, 2012
#5: Mar 3rd 2013 at 9:54:56 PM

I'd vote with All-Star Superman. I must say that I've always enjoyed "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow," though. I've met a lot of people who don't seem to understand Superman's reasoning for doing what he does at the end ("He violates his personal code because he has to, and so he extracts a price from himself; in his own mind, he commits a crime and then answers for it, because he feels it's the right thing to do. No, really.")

AtomJames I need a drink Since: Apr, 2010
I need a drink
#6: Mar 4th 2013 at 1:38:22 AM

Who would you call your favourite B-List supervillain from the Man of Steel's rogue gallery? Personally I have to go with The Auctioneer. He's just an awesome, criminally under-used villain.

Theres sex and death and human grime in monochrome for one thin dime and at least the trains all run on time but they dont go anywhere.
HyperAlbion Taking Back our 40 acres Since: Sep, 2012
Taking Back our 40 acres
#7: Mar 7th 2013 at 2:43:34 PM

So how is AC doing? Awesome as should be expected by the 1.5th best comic writer on earth?

Casual talk is a debate you have to win.
Deadpoolrocks Since: Sep, 2010
#8: Mar 7th 2013 at 3:13:05 PM

[up]Superman is better to me. Its fun. Its good old fashioned, dbz rip-off silver age style fun. ere

Whereas AC is really confusing at first, and talks about things like we know them when we dont yet. We learned later, but by then I lost interest.

ShadowScythe from Australia Since: Dec, 2009
#9: Mar 7th 2013 at 10:24:59 PM

^^Action Comics is great. Grant Morrison's run is almost over (one last issue to go) and it's definitely a binging type series as it can be difficult to keep track of things if you're just reading it issue by issue.

But in a month or so from now the run will be over and it's definitely worth jumping in and reading all of it.

Superman as a young guy trying to attack corporate executive types and generally trying to find his role with his powers is great and Morrison did a great job with all the 5th dimension stuff. It can be a bit trippy but personally I think it's pretty easy to follow compared to Morrison's other stuff.

ShadowScythe from Australia Since: Dec, 2009
#10: Mar 20th 2013 at 2:44:43 AM

Double posting to ask a question.

I'm reading Superman and the Legion of Super-Heroes where it's explained that The Sun becomes a Red Sun at some point in 3008. But if DC One Million is still canon then shouldn't superman be in that sun while slowly becoming Superman Prime?

Does this mean that Superman in the future is actually trapped in that red sun with no powers? Does this ever get mentioned?

TheConductor Since: Jan, 2011
#11: Mar 20th 2013 at 6:06:19 AM

Presumably in the last thousand years or so, he's stored up enough yellow sunlight to hang around the red sun with no problem.

Although the idea the sun in 3008 is red makes no sense because then Mon-El couldn't be in the Legion, nor could Supergirl or Superboy I or II.

TheEvilDrBolty Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
#12: Mar 20th 2013 at 10:12:59 AM

I have a feeling you didn't finish the story arc. The sun didn't naturally turn red.

ShadowScythe from Australia Since: Dec, 2009
#13: Mar 20th 2013 at 3:09:46 PM

I did finish the story arc (and I really enjoyed it) I just figured that even a temporary, unnatural red sun should be an issue for a guy who's stuck in there.

But I suppose The Conductor's explanation makes sense- Superman Prime was godly so even 1000 years should be pretty damn powerful.

AtomJames I need a drink Since: Apr, 2010
I need a drink
#14: Mar 20th 2013 at 6:02:29 PM

Well in Kingdom Come, Superman absorbed enough yellow sun radiation to become immune to Kryptonite and shrug off a Nuclear explosion. I doubt it would've been too much trouble after a thousand years of the stuff and even then thats not taking into account just how quickly or not red sun radiation drains him.

Personally, it always made more sense to me that red sun radiation would work slowly.

Theres sex and death and human grime in monochrome for one thin dime and at least the trains all run on time but they dont go anywhere.
Distortion00 Since: Nov, 2011
#15: Mar 20th 2013 at 7:43:30 PM

Death of Superman is awful. The explanation for why Doomsday can kill Supes is a) He's more physically power and has better powers and b) He got the drop on Superman.

Both A and B sound whiny to me. Other heroes face sneak attacks and villains with better powers all the time. It doesn't kill them. Morrison ret-conned that the sun turned red during Doomsday, but this still doesn't seem like enough to me.

Robbery Since: Jul, 2012
#16: Mar 20th 2013 at 8:43:46 PM

[up]Oh, I agree. Doomsday was able to kill Superman 'cuz he had the writer on his side. It frequently does come off as lame when you have some villain you've never heard of able to do what no other villain has been able to do; it's a mark of bad and/or uninspired writing that the writer can't make you believe that the villain could be a serious threat. The Doomsday thing is the kind of situation where you sit around afterward thinking of ways Superman could have beaten him that the writer conveniently ignored. I always liked how the DCAU had the Justice Lords Superman deal with Doomsday; felt kind of like a "take that, you hack!" moment.

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#17: Mar 20th 2013 at 10:03:25 PM

[up][up]

I personally preferred how the novelizaqtion put it. That Doomsday simply had such massive endurance that Superman had to blow through years upon years of stored solar energy reserves to take down Doomsday, to the point most of his powers started to drop off in strength or outright begin to fail (like his bio-electric aura)

KingZeal Since: Oct, 2009
#18: Mar 26th 2013 at 7:27:12 AM

That was flat out said in latter comic book stories, too.

I thought it was kind of a cop-out, too, but I liked the Diabolus ex Nihilo aspect of it. I mean, in history, you have entities like the Mongols, who conquered most of Asia, but were repelled by the Japanese of all people.note 

What I don't like is what they've done with Doomsday afterwards. He either should have stayed dead or, if you wanted to go with the "evolves after death" powers, he should have been a recurring force of nature.

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#19: Mar 26th 2013 at 9:11:54 AM

Yeah. Doomsday was cool at the beginning. Now he's kind of a wuss somehow.

AtomJames I need a drink Since: Apr, 2010
I need a drink
#20: Mar 26th 2013 at 5:49:16 PM

Which is weird considering his one superpower is coming back tougher than the last time he was killed.

Theres sex and death and human grime in monochrome for one thin dime and at least the trains all run on time but they dont go anywhere.
KingZeal Since: Oct, 2009
#21: Mar 26th 2013 at 8:16:36 PM

The problem is that people started trying to get clever about that.

Whenever you have a character whose ability is to evolve to defeat other abilities, some wise-ass writer is eventually going to start getting metaphysical about it. Like, at one point, Doomsday developed intelligence, which meant he was able to feel fear. That actually made him physically less powerful.

AtomJames I need a drink Since: Apr, 2010
I need a drink
#22: Mar 26th 2013 at 8:36:28 PM

And incredible stupid. If you knew you'd just come back from the dead and come back even tougher, what would you have to fear?? A very cheap character all round whose possible potential was never built upon.

Theres sex and death and human grime in monochrome for one thin dime and at least the trains all run on time but they dont go anywhere.
Robbery Since: Jul, 2012
#23: Mar 27th 2013 at 4:31:25 PM

It would seem to be that the solution, then, is to keep Doomsday alive.

SaintDeltora The Mistress from The Land Of Corruption and Debauchery Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
The Mistress
#24: Mar 28th 2013 at 12:52:33 PM

Does anyone else finds it hilarious that Despair Of The Endless`S ploy to create one Kryptonian "to despair" just created a guy that inspires in people much more Hope that any Blue Lantern ever could?

"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!
shastab24 Since: Dec, 2010
#25: Mar 29th 2013 at 2:51:30 AM

I don't understand why Doomsday was created in the first place. Superman has plenty of villains that can take him down theoretically. Why go through all the trouble to create somebody new and problematic? Would it have been so difficult to have the armies of Apokolips invade Earth, with Superman literally fighting off Darkseid to his dying breath? Darkseid has more depth and backstory than Doomsday—and he overall works far better for continuing stories.


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